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[Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:50 pm

great analogy Exile!

Sheese i can't find this flipping thread in here and i know it's here! We need to pull this type of change out of the CC stationary cupboard!
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Re: Classic! you just bulldozed my home with no warning!

Postby bryguy on Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:56 pm

[quote="joecoolfrog"][quote="bryguy"][quote="joecoolfrog"]The whole damn forum should be spammed until somebody sees sense and changes classic back ![/quote]

actually alot of people were begging for classic to be revamped, you guys COULD have gotten your opinion in but you were to busy doing other things (probably spamming up the forums :roll: )[/quote]

Dont be an idiot !
I very much doubt that the amount of people begging ( LOL ) for changes compares with the amount of members flooding the forum with complaints at the moment. Only a small amount of players visit the forums, a tiny percentage visit the foundry and consequently very few people knew about the changes. What sort of logic is it to flag up the changes AFTER they have been made rather than before - this is not an ordinary map it is the classic one.[/quote]


u know there are alot of people who do come to the foundry, and its not my fault if your mad over some simple graphix changes, next time get your head out of the clouds and comment
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby bryguy on Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:57 pm

[quote="clapper011"]and the opinion of most was against this gmil! not for it! *rolls eyes*[/quote]


it was done by an anonymous person, gimil started this thread but that doesnt mean that he did it *rolls eyes°
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:22 pm

[quote="bryguy"][quote="clapper011"]and the opinion of most was against this gmil! not for it! *rolls eyes*[/quote]


it was done by an anonymous person, gimil started this thread but that doesnt mean that he did it *rolls eyes°[/quote]

yeas .. why anonymous i ask myself ... because the person knew it was not the overwhelming 'will' of the majority to make these unnecessary changes maybe?
No need to answer as Gimil has already agreed to this in essence anyway.

sheese what is happening please someone? Are we having dialogue or are heads being buried firmly in sand?
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby lozzini on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:24 pm

can't you just have a sytem where visually impaired users get all there maps with darker background circles and for us we can have the normal (continued from Twill in other thread)
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby wicked on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:30 pm

The most ironic thing of all are the visually imparied people saying this map is worse for them. I'm wondering if the colorblind have found other ways to deal with this map, like bob's map inspect, or the colorblind codes, so that's it's really no longer an issue for them?

Can any "visually impaired" please comment? Was the old map coloring/shading still an issue for you?
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby clapper011 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:37 pm

[quote="bryguy"][quote="clapper011"]and the opinion of most was against this gmil! not for it! *rolls eyes*[/quote]


it was done by an anonymous person, gimil started this thread but that doesn't mean that he did it *rolls eyes°[/quote]
I am not blaming gimil. never did or ever will. I was merely stating an opinion of what he stated. thanks for your co-operation ;)
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:46 pm

Can the person who made the map please stand up?

I do not know where to start to help make this better... i like so little about the changes, that i i feel compelled to say no to all changes! The colours make dizzy, the white dishes make me cross eyed.
i finish my go as soon as i can because it confuses my senses so profoundly that i can not concentrate on formulating a strategy - No exaggeration.

then we are back to square one.. however as Wicked said have our colour-blind comrades found ways around this?

where do we start?

We need guidance and rational communication from someone who can implement the changes please.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby wicked on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:49 pm

The person who made the map is a friend of lack's and isn't even a member here, I don't think. The person who made the revamp doesn't matter... everything was done based on what was in this thread.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:56 pm

[quote="wicked"]The person who made the map is a friend of lack's and isn't even a member here, I don't think. The person who made the revamp doesn't matter... everything was done based on what was in this thread.[/quote]

and......
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby firth4eva on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:02 pm

And for god's sake the map is "Classic" not "Classic!". It justs looks retarded.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:06 pm

how about we revert back to the original map but add a user script option for the visually impaired to make the continents white or 1 neutral colour? (more similar to the AOM and Middle East)
Last edited by jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby kha1i1 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:08 pm

ok, my vote is to simply REMOVE the white dots and replace them with either circles around the armies (like middle earth) or none at all. the new australia color is ok, albeit a little orange, but definitely doable. i think (imo and from reading the complaints) that the dots seem to be the biggest problem.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby Freetymes on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:10 pm

I am still not sure if this is a place to say something that will not get lost in all of the hate and anger posts (some mine) about the change to the classic map, but here goes.

Please consider that very few of the members of this site come to the forums and even fewer venture into cartography. Consider if you will how hard life in this area would be if everybody felt the need to check in every day and give you their opinion on your work? So be careful what you ask for. I have no idea if there has been a cry for change or not. What I am sure of is that you and your work would have been better served by opening up a dialog about this change to the general population prior to installing it. Few people like change of any kind, good or bad. No one likes it thrust upon them unaware of its coming. Even worse is changing the original and seemingly most liked and played map. I think, as I said, you have done yourself and your community a disservice and for my part I feel you have ruined what has been my favorite map.

Please, please change it back or at the very least allow it to be toggled back to the original version. I and others have compared what you have done to the change Coke made once upon a time... Both changes show failures, of those in power to make these changes, to understand that good or perceived bad you do not change the original.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby Ditocoaf on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:16 pm

I think I've figured it out! We say, "how could you have done this without consulting the larger community?" They say, "you could have commented at any time, it was here." We say, "Nobody looks in here! We thought this forum was just for new maps! If we had known there were plans for a change to the Classic, we would have come!" They say, "well, you should have come in here."

The answer: the mapmaking community feels neglected and ignored as the larger part of the community refrains from visiting the foundry and reading the threads. Like an ignored child, they decide to lash out, do something that will cause us to sit up and take notice! [i]That'll[/i] teach the community to not visit the foundry! If we don't like what they're doing, then we should be here all the time, scanning each of the threads. Finally, the mapmaking sub-community will have the attention they crave!

Seriously. It wouldn't have hurt to post a thread somewhere where people [i]look[/i], to let people know about this. Don't just say, "you could have commented," because they didn't [i]know[/i] this was going on. You can have a secret meeting without a locked door, when there's nobody going in the room anyway.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby wicked on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:19 pm

I think we have enough "what went wrong" posts, as they're all starting to say the same things. How about, "how can we fix it" for everyone posts?
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:23 pm

[quote="Ditocoaf"]I think I've figured it out! We say, "how could you have done this without consulting the larger community?" They say, "you could have commented at any time, it was here." We say, "Nobody looks in here! We thought this forum was just for new maps! If we had known there were plans for a change to the Classic, we would have come!" They say, "well, you should have come in here."

The answer: the mapmaking community feels neglected and ignored as the larger part of the community refrains from visiting the foundry and reading the threads. Like an ignored child, they decide to lash out, do something that will cause us to sit up and take notice! [i]That'll[/i] teach the community to not visit the foundry! If we don't like what they're doing, then we should be here all the time, scanning each of the threads. Finally, the mapmaking sub-community will have the attention they crave!

Seriously. It wouldn't have hurt to post a thread somewhere where people [i]look[/i], to let people know about this. Don't just say, "you could have commented," because they didn't [i]know[/i] this was going on. You can have a secret meeting without a locked door, when there's nobody going in the room anyway.[/quote]

Just to reiterate - there was an announcement in the General Discussion sometime ago...

C.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:29 pm

[quote="jiminski"]how about we revert back to the original map but add a user script option for the visually impaired to make the continents white or 1 neutral colour? (more similar to the AOM and Middle East)[/quote]

(before we talk about if it is desirable...)
is that possible Yeti?
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:40 pm

[quote="jiminski"][quote="jiminski"]how about we revert back to the original map but add a user script option for the visually impaired to make the continents white or 1 neutral colour? (more similar to the AOM and Middle East)[/quote]

(before we talk about if it is desirable...)
is that possible Yeti?[/quote]

A userscript to show a different image?

No not really possible as the army counts have moved - and thus wouldn't be centralised.

If the *new* image is modified to have different versions and these are uploaded on the site somewhere - then it could be done... But at the moment no.

For Lack to add an option to allow more than 1 image is again a lot of work to do for him - especially when there's more cooler stuff going forward (not backward) that I'm sure he would like to do.

C.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby wicked on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:43 pm

yeti_c wrote:For Lack to add an option to allow more than 1 image is again a lot of work to do for him - especially when there's more cooler stuff going forward (not backward) that I'm sure he would like to do.

C.


How is it more work for him? It's just like adding a new map, which happens all the time.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:45 pm

[quote="wicked"][quote="yeti_c"]For Lack to add an option to allow more than 1 image is again a lot of work to do for him - especially when there's more cooler stuff going forward (not backward) that I'm sure he would like to do.

C.[/quote]

How is it more work for him? It's just like adding a new map, which happens all the time.[/quote]

Well - I suppose that is 1 option...

But I thought that an option to have either the old or new classic shown in the same game was what people wanted?

Which would mean recoding the game pages etc to add new links etc - and to ensure the correct XML is read (as that has changed too AFAIK)

C.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby poo-maker on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:55 pm

Why does there only have to be one classic? I am sure that with this new version and the old classic version, 99% if not all the members at conquerclub are happy. There are so many crap maps cluttering up the start a game page nowadays that what harm would another one do? Personally, I found nothing wrong with the last map. In fact, i thought it was perfect. How did it even get to this point where the best and most popular map at cc was changed without the knowledge of most of the community? It really pisses me off to think about those people who didn't like the old classic, and managed to change it into something that they liked.... meanwhile, those people who loved the old map now have to "campaign" to get the classic version back.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:58 pm

[quote="wicked"][quote="yeti_c"]For Lack to add an option to allow more than 1 image is again a lot of work to do for him - especially when there's more cooler stuff going forward (not backward) that I'm sure he would like to do.

C.[/quote]

How is it more work for him? It's just like adding a new map, which happens all the time.[/quote]

Also i would say that this is THE most important map!
just as a rule of thumb if you look at the waiting for players games in Game finder there are 32 pages. 10 of these are Classic. nearly a third of awaiting games are Classic!

So i understand from a map makers perspective that moving forward is the key... but you guys care most about making maps.

We have to consider:
1. the map makers feelings
2. the time taken to fix this taking time from newer projects
3. the Majority of Users
4. the visually impaired who the changes were made for

Analysis:
1. he is not even a member so it is irrelevant
2. this mainly effects our very important but tiny minority of Cartographers
3. what appears to be the majority of users dislike all of the changes to the map and want the old one back (we should perhaps check this with a mail-out poll to all members to accommodate those who do not visit the forums)
4. The visually impaired do not seem to have been aided by the changes either.

therefore for me, if we could have an option to change from the 'Original' classic Map to a 'Bleached' version with the same plotting for armies for the Visually impaired, the highest utility will be achieved.
Last edited by jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:59 pm

[quote="wicked"]I think we have enough "what went wrong" posts, as they're all starting to say the same things. How about, "how can we fix it" for everyone posts?[/quote]

Fixes?

1. Poll on My Games page which states whether you want to revert to the old Classic or not. Somewhere where people too lazy (or not interested) to get in the foundry can see it and vote for it. This is probably the most democratic solution but I doubt this will even be taken into consideration.

2. Make an option to select old Classic or new Classic in the Start A Game screen. This treats Classic! as an entirely new map...although it doesn't make sense to me.

3. Put old Classic on while new Classic's colour scheme is fixed to satisfy the majority.

However, my personal opinion is that this is not the usual map where people either hate it and don't play it or love it and play it. This is Classic...the essence of CC. I believe the Classic map should be kept as it was and therefore we should revert to the original. It is too important for CC.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby poo-maker on Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:00 pm

Btw... if lack only wants 1 classic map at cc. Then the following things should be changed/fixed about the new one.

- White army circles
- The army circles look out of place, i know this has been done to allow for the names to read more easily but for me, it is much worse than having partially blocked names.
- The map looks greyer for some reason.... maybe its just the white dots but it looks like the map is costantly set to 90% opacity.
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