Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

[eigenvector]

Hi,

Hope I'm not barging in too late here...

I've played two games on this map and have high regard for the graphics and style. Also the bonuses system is cool. I have some serious misgivings, though, about some of the borders:

(a) The navies seem to play no real part in 2-player games. They are connected only to one territory and apparently start neutral (do they really? maybe it was just a fluke in my 2 games). So one doesn't bother about them and they just hang there.

(b) For similar reasons, I never got around to doing anything with the Rome inset. It's just too much trouble and not worth it.

One more thing: the convention by which province names written outside the provinces themselves is not very convenient. One gets used to it but it doesn't quite feel right.

Overall though, nice map. There is huge potential here.

Ships and Rome is not worth in 1v1 players.
All territory who gives bonuses start neutral
You can take ship and dont be afraid that someon from other ship can attack(just follow attack routes)
These last i dont quit understand.

Okay, I'll try some multi gams to see if the ships and Rome pan out there.

But with ships I think it makes more sense to have them connected to different continents - after all, this is one of the manifest purposes of having a navy: attacking other pieces of landmass, right?

The last point was about layout, never mind.

[Qwert]

yea maybe in new age,in roman era fleets use for cover some importan sea regions,and will be very imposibile that fleet from mauretania attack fleet in egypt(month and month of rowing). In year when Trajanus whas emperor,seas whas quit peace place(well except pirates)

[Qwert]

25
statistic day 10
avaiting 60(last time 71)
Active 276 (242)
finished 552(388)---55,2 per day

[eigenvector]

yea maybe in new age,in roman era fleets use for cover some importan sea regions,and will be very imposibile that fleet from mauretania attack fleet in egypt(month and month of rowing). In year when Trajanus whas emperor,seas whas quit peace place(well except pirates)

Nevertheless, the First Punic War saw a lot of naval action. Based on this, I think that it makes ample sense to have Africa Proconsularis connected to Sicily via the sea. Similar arguments can be made for other areas.

[Juan_Bottom]

yea maybe in new age,in roman era fleets use for cover some importan sea regions,and will be very imposibile that fleet from mauretania attack fleet in egypt(month and month of rowing). In year when Trajanus whas emperor,seas whas quit peace place(well except pirates)

Nevertheless, the First Punic War saw a lot of naval action. Based on this, I think that it makes ample sense to have Africa Proconsularis connected to Sicily via the sea. Similar arguments can be made for other areas.

Not only do I side with Qwert on this, but I hardly think it's practical to revise the map now. This is the kind of stuff that should have been (if it wasn't) discussed when the map was being made. Transforming the map, and re-writing the XML hardly sounds practical, especially since so many people are playing it.
But everyone is encouraged to help with the map discussions in the Map Foundry!
I hope this doesn't sound condescending, cauze I'm not trying to sound that way.

[eigenvector]

yea maybe in new age,in roman era fleets use for cover some importan sea regions,and will be very imposibile that fleet from mauretania attack fleet in egypt(month and month of rowing). In year when Trajanus whas emperor,seas whas quit peace place(well except pirates)

Nevertheless, the First Punic War saw a lot of naval action. Based on this, I think that it makes ample sense to have Africa Proconsularis connected to Sicily via the sea. Similar arguments can be made for other areas.

Not only do I side with Qwert on this, but I hardly think it's practical to revise the map now. This is the kind of stuff that should have been (if it wasn't) discussed when the map was being made. Transforming the map, and re-writing the XML hardly sounds practical, especially since so many people are playing it.
But everyone is encouraged to help with the map discussions in the Map Foundry!
I hope this doesn't sound condescending, cauze I'm not trying to sound that way.

Okay, I understand that this is late in the day. However, the whole idea of Beta is to figure out problems in gameplay, right? (By the way the argument "especially since so many people are playing it." is irrelevant since those people, including me, are playing with the knowledge that the gameplay may change in the middle..).

I think the map is nice the way it is but large parts of it go wasted in 2- or 3- player games and I think it might be better to fix it.

[Qwert]

Okay, I understand that this is late in the day. However, the whole idea of Beta is to figure out problems in gameplay, right? (By the way the argument "especially since so many people are playing it." is irrelevant since those people, including me, are playing with the knowledge that the gameplay may change in the middle..).

I think the map is nice the way it is but large parts of it go wasted in 2- or 3- player games and I think it might be better to fix it.

MAp is in beta stage, and if you think that gameplay of these map is not good,then you must explane why i must connect Africa proconsularis with Sicilia,and what will geyt with that in gameplay.
Your Argument abouth Punic wars is for RUbben Casar map(he create map who story is Roma -Cartage wars).
When i want to find any wars in years when Trajanus whas emperor i have big troubles to find any significant war (except with dacia),and for seas i dont find nothing.
For now you are first who think that gameplay can be better,so i waiting yours solution for better gameplay,still i think that gameplay is very good balanced and that nobody have any advantage,even if you play first.

[eigenvector]

Okay, I understand that this is late in the day. However, the whole idea of Beta is to figure out problems in gameplay, right? (By the way the argument "especially since so many people are playing it." is irrelevant since those people, including me, are playing with the knowledge that the gameplay may change in the middle..).

I think the map is nice the way it is but large parts of it go wasted in 2- or 3- player games and I think it might be better to fix it.

MAp is in beta stage, and if you think that gameplay of these map is not good,then you must explane why i must connect Africa proconsularis with Sicilia,and what will geyt with that in gameplay.
Your Argument abouth Punic wars is for RUbben Casar map(he create map who story is Roma -Cartage wars).
When i want to find any wars in years when Trajanus whas emperor i have big troubles to find any significant war (except with dacia),and for seas i dont find nothing.
For now you are first who think that gameplay can be better,so i waiting yours solution for better gameplay,still i think that gameplay is very good balanced and that nobody have any advantage,even if you play first.

Hey,

My argument is not about advantage, it's about parts of the map hanging about uselessly. The balance is actually very good, kudos to you there.

The solution I offered is to add links between the navies and continents. The Punic War example was to show that such links make historical sense.

As for Trajan, he waged wars agains the Dacians and the Parthians. But I presume that the map has links between area that *could* be attacked given contemporary military technology, not between areas actually engaged in warfare uring Trajan's reign - because in the latter case you'd have almost no links at all..

[roman imperium]

I love having a map named completely after me. It makes me feel special. Though I am curious as to the copyright issues about the name, seeing as it is the same as a computer game: http://pc.ign.com/objects/142/14221596.html

I did have to spend a few minutes figuring out the legend before I played, but I have no suggestions as to how to improve it.

[MrBenn]

No copyright issues... it's more than 70yrs since the fall of the Roman Empire...

[Qwert]

The solution I offered is to add links between the navies and continents. The Punic War example was to show that such links make historical sense.

As for Trajan, he waged wars agains the Dacians and the Parthians. But I presume that the map has links between area that *could* be attacked given contemporary military technology, not between areas actually engaged in warfare uring Trajan's reign - because in the latter case you'd have almost no links at all..

YOu offered solution to improve what. These map dont have continents, and people must have some part of territory to hold,and you have several examples
Baetica-Arabia petraea
Syria-Asia-Bithynia et Pontus
Italia-Praetorian guards and roma
Lugdunensis-Belgica Britannai
Dalmatia Panonia-Thracia Macedonia
Baetica-Taraconensis

Conection betwen africa and sicilia you will brake holding sheme for africa and split on two, and still not get nothing good.
Historicaly i realy research (these people kow here that i so many hours spend on researh,because i create historical map-Eastern Front-Western Front-Ardennes Offensive-Iwo JIma BAttle) and i try to be as much possible historical correct. These map is how tittle say Imperium Romanum 117 AD,when empire whas in bigest extend,and in these years Romans whas very peaseful place for live(i think so).
OFcourse you have many other scenarios here-Punic wars map(RubbenCasaar) Roman empire Decline map(i dont know who present that) Buzantine Empire(abandonen) and many others.

[Qwert]

by roman imperium on Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:20 am

I love having a map named completely after me. It makes me feel special. Though I am curious as to the copyright issues about the name, seeing as it is the same as a computer game: http://pc.ign.com/objects/142/14221596.html

I did have to spend a few minutes figuring out the legend before I played, but I have no suggestions as to how to improve it.

LIke MrBeen say no copyright issue,and if you want to contact someone abouth that ,first try to create time machine

[Grooveman2007]

It's a great map except the bonuses are geographically unbalanced. The eastern half of the map has most of the cities and legion posts while there are large parts of the north and west with very little in terms of bonuses. You should consider adding a few more legions north of Italy or maybe a city in Gaul.

[Qwert]

It's a great map except the bonuses are geographically unbalanced. The eastern half of the map has most of the cities and legion posts while there are large parts of the north and west with very little in terms of bonuses. You should consider adding a few more legions north of Italy or maybe a city in Gaul.The big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart.

-Kurt Vonnegut
Grooveman2007

Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:08 am
Location: Minnesota
Medals: 1

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lets visualy cut map on two part west and east
West roman empire-------------East Roman Empire
Ships---------------4-----------------3---------
Cohors Praetoria--3-----------------0-------
Legions-------------5-----------------7-------
Civitates-----------3-----------------4-------
Roma---------------1-----------------0-------
------------------------------------------------------
Now lets transform all these to number of Bonus Army .
If you Hold East Roman Empire you will get-6 for bonuses plus 29 territory-9 army=15 army per turn

IF you hold West Roman Empire you will get-11 for bonuses plus 29 territory-9 army= 20 army per turn.
I think that west have small advantage,because Cohorts and rome worth like two town in east.

[Grooveman2007]

It's a great map except the bonuses are geographically unbalanced. The eastern half of the map has most of the cities and legion posts while there are large parts of the north and west with very little in terms of bonuses. You should consider adding a few more legions north of Italy or maybe a city in Gaul.The big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart.

-Kurt Vonnegut
Grooveman2007

Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:08 am
Location: Minnesota
Medals: 1

Private message

lets visualy cut map on two part west and east
West roman empire-------------East Roman Empire
Ships---------------4-----------------3---------
Cohors Praetoria--3-----------------0-------
Legions-------------5-----------------7-------
Civitates-----------3-----------------4-------
Roma---------------1-----------------0-------
------------------------------------------------------
Now lets transform all these to number of Bonus Army .
If you Hold East Roman Empire you will get-6 for bonuses plus 29 territory-9 army=15 army per turn

IF you hold West Roman Empire you will get-11 for bonuses plus 29 territory-9 army= 20 army per turn.
I think that west have small advantage,because Cohorts and rome worth like two town in east.

Well, I only played one game, but Rome was ignored I think because 12 armies isn't worth the bonus. Maybe you could allow players to start with the cohorts, but increase the starting armies on rome to sixish.

[Qwert]

Well, I only played one game, but Rome was ignored I think because 12 armies isn't worth the bonus. Maybe you could allow players to start with the cohorts, but increase the starting armies on rome to sixish.

And from one game you conclude that these map is not good balanced
Call me when you play 15-20 games,and please dont play only 1v1,play all kind of player combination,ok

[Juan_Bottom]

I'm playing a few qwert. And I think you've pretty much crippled the luck factor. So long as you're not playing 1vs1 and someone gets great dice.

Good job buddy.

[Qwert]

by Juan_Bottom on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:54 pm

I'm playing a few qwert. And I think you've pretty much crippled the luck factor. So long as you're not playing 1vs1 and someone gets great dice.

Good job buddy.

Yep,so far these is bigest problem with these map,two turn get crazy bad dice and you are dead. Still can not find solution for these.

[eigenvector]

The solution I offered is to add links between the navies and continents. The Punic War example was to show that such links make historical sense.

As for Trajan, he waged wars agains the Dacians and the Parthians. But I presume that the map has links between area that *could* be attacked given contemporary military technology, not between areas actually engaged in warfare uring Trajan's reign - because in the latter case you'd have almost no links at all..

YOu offered solution to improve what.

To remedy the fact that in 2-3 player games the navies (and Italy) are systematically ignored. I think it's a pity.

These map dont have continents, and people must have some part of territory to hold,and you have several examples
Baetica-Arabia petraea
Syria-Asia-Bithynia et Pontus
Italia-Praetorian guards and roma
Lugdunensis-Belgica Britannai
Dalmatia Panonia-Thracia Macedonia
Baetica-Taraconensis

Conection betwen africa and sicilia you will brake holding sheme for africa and split on two, and still not get nothing good.

I meant "continents" in the sense of "large landmasses" not in the sense of "bonus-yielding groups of territories". I see it was confusing, sorry.

Anyway, what is "holding sheme for africa"?

Historicaly i realy research (these people kow here that i so many hours spend on researh,because i create historical map-Eastern Front-Western Front-Ardennes Offensive-Iwo JIma BAttle) and i try to be as much possible historical correct. These map is how tittle say Imperium Romanum 117 AD,when empire whas in bigest extend,and in these years Romans whas very peaseful place for live(i think so).
OFcourse you have many other scenarios here-Punic wars map(RubbenCasaar) Roman empire Decline map(i dont know who present that) Buzantine Empire(abandonen) and many others.

I admire your research and like I said many times, the map is very good. However, the argument that the Empire was at peace during those years (no strictly correct but never mind) is specious: in Risk the maps show possible avenues of attack, not actual ones used in a particular period.

Anyway, if you find this tiresome, just leave it like it is, provided you don't mind people ignore a big part of the map.

[Qwert]

I admire your research and like I said many times, the map is very good. However, the argument that the Empire was at peace during those years (no strictly correct but never mind) is specious: in Risk the maps show possible avenues of attack, not actual ones used in a particular period.

Anyway, if you find this tiresome, just leave it like it is, provided you don't mind people ignore a big part of the map.

Well you new here(in map foundry),and these is how i work, in first place thing must be correct,people here can confirm that, well i start these map,because some people want to create incorect map of roman empire,and i can not watch these,because these will be wrong.

[eigenvector]

I admire your research and like I said many times, the map is very good. However, the argument that the Empire was at peace during those years (no strictly correct but never mind) is specious: in Risk the maps show possible avenues of attack, not actual ones used in a particular period.

Anyway, if you find this tiresome, just leave it like it is, provided you don't mind people ignore a big part of the map.

Well you new here(in map foundry),and these is how i work, in first place thing must be correct,people here can confirm that, well i start these map,because some people want to create incorect map of roman empire,and i can not watch these,because these will be wrong.

Okay, I'll try to make my point like this: suppose I make an accurate map of Western Europe 2000 CE. Since this area is in peace there will be no attacks allowed.

Do you see what I mean? Territory A should be able to attack territory B if it' physically and technically feasible, not if it had actually happened.

[Qwert]

I understand what you say,but realy can not see that these will improve gameplay of map.

[Aliksander]

I make 2 suggestions that can be implemented together or separately.

1) Connection between Sicily and Carthage.

2) Connection between Fleets- just connection between adjacent fleets would be sufficient. Ex. East and west Baltics conected, west baltics and eastern Med. connected, East med and central med connected, ect..

Either would potentially break the ultra protective Africa bonus (holding everything in between from Iberia to Syria through africa gives you a legion bonus and +3 Town bonus with only 2 territories to defend. If they can be attacked by sea or at least through Sicily this could weaken this incredibly strong position.

[Qwert]

by Aliksander on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:14 pm

I make 2 suggestions that can be implemented together or separately.

1) Connection between Sicily and Carthage.

2) Connection between Fleets- just connection between adjacent fleets would be sufficient. Ex. East and west Baltics conected, west baltics and eastern Med. connected, East med and central med connected, ect..

Either would potentially break the ultra protective Africa bonus (holding everything in between from Iberia to Syria through africa gives you a legion bonus and +3 Town bonus with only 2 territories to defend. If they can be attacked by sea or at least through Sicily this could weaken this incredibly strong position.

ok,you have two sugestion but need more explanation why, and what will bring to gameplay.

"Ultra protective Africa Bonus" what a name
first of all-in these are you have only 4 legions and you can not get bonus,second you have 13 terittory and 6 territory starting neutral(18 neutra army).
In some maps holding 13 teritory you will get more then 3(3 cities). It can be ultra protective place,only if you alove these,because its imposible that player take these area in 4-5 turn(he must get extra crazy dices to do that. 1v1 player,its possible but hard.3,4,5,6,7,8 player harder and harder,with 8 player these is imposibile in 5 round,maybe 15-20,ofcourse with cards.
I play a lot games and people take Britania and armenia first,because its most good defensive bonuses-in africa if you have more players,then who get first ,have chance to loose citi from opponent attack.

[Qwert]

ok,i so stupid,next time i will check how many games people played in IMperiUM romanum and then give answer.
Aliksander, you start playing only one GAME on These map ,and you all ready know where is problem,can i ask you,how the hell you guys alove to Pink hold All africa,you made zilion mistakes,and you can not create alliance against pink,and when you waiting to responde pink is stronger every turn,so dont blame map,map is not guilty for your bad cooperation against stronger opponent. Play more games on map,and use strategy to win a map. I my self play over 20 games,and know very good what is importan for good start.You can not know only from 1 game(who still not finish)how gameplay working.


eigenvector you play only 4 games,and 3 is 1v1. Can you try to play with 5-6 or more player.
People you must understand that map must be funcional for 8 players not for 1v1.