Europe 1914 [Quenched]

[Qwert]

Don't , keep it "global"..
though you may create some more smaller territories in the west and other areas where progress was small (or none at all :s) .

i say these in begining,and now i dont have space for these insets,any way without inset these map will have almost 50 terittory.

by lt_oddball on Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 pm

I dont' like to see Italy, France, Belgium and Britain (and Ireland?) combined in one bonuszone/colour.
National pride was at its peak in those days... so keep them separate please, with individual bonuszones, and colours.
You don't combine Germany and Austria too , do you?

Let the territory sizes be defined by the likeliness for footfolk in those days to be able to move (quickly or rather not quickly) through it.
That means (again) looking at natural barriers (large rivers and mountain ranges) and ...railway lines !
The reason that Germany was initially so swift is that they had a larger raised army from onset, thus overwhelmed the Belgians/French -initially- and their railway transport from all kazernen from Germany to the west border.
I suppose only Britain and Germany had a large railway system/plan.... other places (France incl) were less dense or varied..so that means marching all the way..

Map: Take scissors, cut a horizontal line from left just above Paris and let it meet with a vertical scissors cut from above over the West German Border. Blow up that rectangle with fixed South-East corner Point until Britain shows only a part on the left side.
Germany never invaded England (and would not even be capable of doing so), so you won't miss Great-Britain as such on this Map (of course leaving one or 2 circles).
You then have the opportunity to dissect the west-front (;p) in many more smaller territories (and not having to make a separate minimap )

Don't forget to use the sea lanes and that having control over a sealane by an opponent means "starvation" of England/Britain!

I know that you dont like,but these is Western ally,and i dont have space to create more terittory. If i create like you say,then England will have only 3 terittory,France 4,and italy 4,and where to put Belgium with one terittory?
Austria and Germany what very large country then England and Italy or France.

Rail way? I whas thinking that these map be without any Bariers.

Aim not understand these thing with scissors.

England newer invade Germany.
Sea lanes?

by t-o-m on Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:57 pm

qwert can we lose the exclamation marks please?
I think its a bit excessive to have all capital letters and have almost a line of exclamation marks to go with it.

What you mean?

[lt_oddball]

Where other commentors bother about colours, I like to think first about the game concept.
What feeling is it that you want to simulate with this map ?

Is it just any other map with a bunch of territories and some standard n/3 + border x n bonus ? Then it won't stand out of any other map.
However, If you like to implement some of the historical hardships/problems of those times in the map, then you should give a long thought before about e.g.
#the sluggish struggle on the west front (game technique: relatively more smaller territories and a "labyrinth" of one direction attacks, thus requiring a pop-up/zoom in of that area) and NorthItaly sector.

#Instead of a SEPARATE Minimap that presents twice the map, better pop it up, blow up that sector by 300%.

#think about how to implement the U-boat stranglehold of Germany on Britain (effectively worse than in ww2 !!)..(like I said..create some North-Sea zones from which you can't invade England(but bombard it from the sea=starving off)..but England's bonus (of 2 territories) won't yield a bonus until also controlling a couple of sea "territories" (with which you get maybe 5 territories in total for the England Bonus).

# think about leaving out parts that were of no interest to either warparty (Corsica ? Sardinia ? Crete ? N-Africa? Iberia? Scandinavia?) so to create more free Map space.

# Argument for keeping "western Allies" united bonus area is weak. If a nation has few territories, then you give it little bonus. Simple.
And let's face it..when germany is breached it is harder to reorganize (thus no bonus armies) than when ONE country of your western allies is breached (say Belgium only) You still would have INTACT France and INTACT Britain organised and thus capable of forming armies..hence to take away their bonus is unfair/unrealistic.

#You are not bounded by the geographic map.. it's a THEME map, so of course you can enlarge areas of special interest (west front) and reduce size of areas that have little interest (Neutral countries Holland Switserland etc and areas that saw relatively little action (Ottoman empire; really Akaba and Syria and also Gallapoli in terms of troops over time is peanuts compared to west and east fronts..). You get a skewed map, but that 's no problem for a THEME map like this.


If it wasn't for the armistice that germany pushed for(!), the brits WOULD have run over Germany with their Tanks and American allies!
whereas Germany would NEVER be capable(!) of raising a transport fleet and get it safely and securely past the Royal Navy...

[Qwert]

It odball,these map represent countries and allies before start of WWI.that why tittle is EUROPE 1914. So no insets of Western Front or eastern front. So forget to any fronts and battles.
I think that is better to have all together Western allies,instead that Belgium have one country.

[lt_oddball]

It odball,these map represent countries and allies before start of WWI.that why tittle is EUROPE 1914. So no insets of Western Front or eastern front. So forget to any fronts and battles.
I think that is better to have all together Western allies,instead that Belgium have one country.

Still not convincing argument. But if you don't want to implement ww1 effects, and only work with maps, lands, territories according to standard Risk concepts then at least what you should do is to create similar sized bonusareas:
Germany = 6 Austria = 6 Balkans = 6 Ottoman = 7 (slightly larger empire) Russia = 10 (large empire but also having his back covered) and then you have the western allies = 12 ?!?! twelve ???
That alone is argument enough to split it in two bonuszones of 6 and 6 !
Now there is NO way a player can conquer the "western allies" in the same time as Germany or Austria or Balkans.

Besides in the Balkans you have a pro western Rumania along a pro German Bulgaria..so go figure how on earth you could combine that into one bonuszone ?!?!?

[Qwert]

Still not convincing argument. But if you don't want to implement ww1 effects, and only work with maps, lands, territories according to standard Risk concepts then at least what you should do is to create similar sized bonusareas:
Germany = 6 Austria = 6 Balkans = 6 Ottoman = 7 (slightly larger empire) Russia = 10 (large empire but also having his back covered) and then you have the western allies = 12 ?!?! twelve ???
That alone is argument enough to split it in two bonuszones of 6 and 6 !
Now there is NO way a player can conquer the "western allies" in the same time as Germany or Austria or Balkans.

Besides in the Balkans you have a pro western Rumania along a pro German Bulgaria..so go figure how on earth you could combine that into one bonuszone ?!?!?

What you suprised abouth Western Allied have 12-these is 3 country in one -Britain,France and Italy,Russia is european part and its enough 10.
Dont worry i prepare unique bonuses, where you need to hold some number of Entente or Cental powers terittory to get bonus.
These is Balkans and its normal that go in one bonus zone,but All terittory except Bulgaria will be aditionaly candidate for Unique bonuses. Do you want to tell me that Bulgaria must be separate terittory in Balkan? I dont see any problem to stay with Balkans.Also Romania is part of Entente powers,like Serbia,Greece,Montenegro and Albania,but they not a part of Western Allied.

[t-o-m]

What you mean?

I just mean could you take some of the exclamation marks out of the title please, it makes me not want to view the thread
maybe just have this:
Europe 1914 - New Update! 24th August

Instead of:
EUROPE 1914---NEW UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Qwert]

I just mean could you take some of the exclamation marks out of the title please, it makes me not want to view the thread
maybe just have this:
Europe 1914 - New Update! 24th August

Instead of:
EUROPE 1914---NEW UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These example help a loot, aim whas not understand previous post

[Qwert]

new update,i add all importan things for Idea stamp.
These mean,Explanation for yellow,abreviations for Be,Bs,A,M,
Bonuses.

Click image to enlarge.

[Androidz]

new update,i add all importan things for Idea stamp.
These mean,Explanation for yellow,abreviations for Be,Bs,A,M,
Bonuses.

Click image to enlarge.

I like this new unique gameplay qwrt=)

[Qwert]

Thanks Androidz.

PS-androidz aim all ready tell you that no need to upload same image when you posting

[Androidz]

Thanks Androidz.

PS-androidz aim all ready tell you that no need to upload same image when you posting

hehe sorry:D

[Cdkutusu]

So did i get it right? If somebody holds Ottoman Empire, he will get 3 for Ottoman Empire, and 3 for holding 7 Central Power territory?

Its not such a good idea i think...

Also, drops can finish the game pretty easily, you should make at least some of the capitals neutral.
Lets say if i get 1 capital, and 3 lands next to the capitals... I can finish the game in 2nd turn even, if nobody notices what I'm doing (consider fog of war)

[lt_oddball]

Still not convincing argument. But if you don't want to implement ww1 effects, and only work with maps, lands, territories according to standard Risk concepts then at least what you should do is to create similar sized bonusareas:
Germany = 6 Austria = 6 Balkans = 6 Ottoman = 7 (slightly larger empire) Russia = 10 (large empire but also having his back covered) and then you have the western allies = 12 ?!?! twelve ???
That alone is argument enough to split it in two bonuszones of 6 and 6 !
Now there is NO way a player can conquer the "western allies" in the same time as Germany or Austria or Balkans.

Besides in the Balkans you have a pro western Rumania along a pro German Bulgaria..so go figure how on earth you could combine that into one bonuszone ?!?!?

What you suprised abouth Western Allied have 12-these is 3 country in one -Britain,France and Italy,Russia is european part and its enough 10.
Dont worry i prepare unique bonuses, where you need to hold some number of Entente or Cental powers terittory to get bonus.
These is Balkans and its normal that go in one bonus zone,but All terittory except Bulgaria will be aditionaly candidate for Unique bonuses. Do you want to tell me that Bulgaria must be separate terittory in Balkan? I dont see any problem to stay with Balkans.Also Romania is part of Entente powers,like Serbia,Greece,Montenegro and Albania,but they not a part of Western Allied.

I'll put this wish/subject on holduntil you make clear on the map what you mean...

[Qwert]

by Cdkutusu on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:39 pm

So did i get it right? If somebody holds Ottoman Empire, he will get 3 for Ottoman Empire, and 3 for holding 7 Central Power territory?

Its not such a good idea i think...

Also, drops can finish the game pretty easily, you should make at least some of the capitals neutral.
Lets say if i get 1 capital, and 3 lands next to the capitals... I can finish the game in 2nd turn even, if nobody notices what I'm doing (consider fog of war)

Well,i have one option to-to create 8 starting position,and these mean that all other terittory is Neutral,and everyone is equal on begining,expecialy in no card games(who can be quit long game ).Also these will brake any chance that you win in secound round in fog games.
Now when i say these i like that a much

I'll put this wish/subject on holduntil you make clear on the map what you mean...

Do you not like present Continents? In any Way,Western allies is correct view of these map,ofcourse you have also correct view of map,but will have to many continents,what will require more space on bonus legend,causing problems to implement.
Now i Have 1 Continent-Western allies
your sugestion is to have new 4 continent
Britain
France
Italy
Belgium

And if we add Bulgaria hes own country
these will be number of 10 country,what will be to much for map.

[lt_oddball]

I'll put this wish/subject on holduntil you make clear on the map what you mean...

Do you not like present Continents? In any Way,Western allies is correct view of these map,ofcourse you have also correct view of map,but will have to many continents,what will require more space on bonus legend,causing problems to implement.
Now i Have 1 Continent-Western allies
your sugestion is to have new 4 continent
Britain
France
Italy
Belgium

And if we add Bulgaria hes own country
these will be number of 10 country,what will be to much for map.

You can split it in 2: north sector west allies = britain, belgium, north parts of france geared against taking part in war effort against german front.
south sector west allies : south france (Marseille), Italy geared for taking part in the war effort against Austria and Ottomans.
Really this makes it gamewise much more sensible.

keep balkans as one bonuszone..that's ok.


I don't understand game idea of taking the central capitols only... won't the war be over if Germany seizes London, Paris; Brussels, Rome,Moskou ?

I don't like the idea of taking any "x" number of territories within a large space yields extra bonus ..like beforesaid You have the ottoman empire you get two bonusses combined ..

[Qwert]

You can split it in 2: north sector west allies = britain, belgium, north parts of france geared against taking part in war effort against german front.
south sector west allies : south france (Marseille), Italy geared for taking part in the war effort against Austria and Ottomans.
Really this makes it gamewise much more sensible.

keep balkans as one bonuszone..that's ok.


I don't understand game idea of taking the central capitols only... won't the war be over if Germany seizes London, Paris; Brussels, Rome,Moskou ?

I don't like the idea of taking any "x" number of territories within a large space yields extra bonus ..like beforesaid You have the ottoman empire you get two bonusses combined ..

Like i say these is map one day before Start of War . Creating two Western Allied Sector,will be no good idea. I realy Belive that Western Allied must be in one country.
I think that War is over when you take Central Powers Capitals,these is more logical.
Do you sugest that i have two Gameplay Objectives? Its these Possible?
"Capture Entente Powers Capitals-London,Paris,Rome,Saint Petersburg"
I dont know its these possible,i think that for now nobody have multiple Gameplayer Objective. But maybe will be very interesting Gameplay. Its will be good that someon who understand XML give hes opinion abouth multiple gameplay Objectives.

Well i can rise these to 15 for Allied and to 10 for Central powers,+ one starting position.

[ZeakCytho]

Operation Drug War has multiple objectives, so yes, they're possible. And I'd prefer to see both objectives, not just one.

[Cdkutusu]

Yes I was about to say that Drug Wars has 4 (I guess 4, right? ) objectives. And its better, if this is a war, Central Powers can win as well (I'm Turkish you know )

[The Viking]

I really don't like the color of the nonplayble territories, I suggest some shade of gray. And you might also want to erase the border between Sweden and Norway.

Fix the spelling in the legend:
Nonplayble territory
Balkan States
Territory, not terittory

Maybe change London to England, unless London has some sort of capital bonus or something?

[wcaclimbing]

[adv. idea]


... just need to wait for one of the CAs to sticky this thread.

[Qwert]

by The Viking on Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:55 pm

I really don't like the color of the nonplayble territories, I suggest some shade of gray. And you might also want to erase the border between Sweden and Norway.

Fix the spelling in the legend:
Nonplayble territory
Balkan States
Territory, not terittory

Maybe change London to England, unless London has some sort of capital bonus or something?

Why will i erase border between Sweden and Norway?
London,Paris,Saint Petersburg and rome will be part of Second victory contition objective.
i will fix name mistake.

[lt_oddball]

Why will i erase border between Sweden and Norway? it distracts..has no map meaning..neither has vatican city or andorra.

London,Paris,Saint Petersburg and rome will be part of Second victory contition objective.

This thing about collecting a series of important capitols ..originally you may have thought this to be : you are an entente player and get to occupy these central power capitols and voila the war is over and you deserve a bonus.
That may have been the case in the real world, but on this map, it means as a player you control all central power capitols ..now go for world domination and attack all other territories.
So the bonus significance should be something of the sort "coherent HQ control" or "unified HQ control".
All HQ's of the Entente armies and that of the Central Powers means more effective troops and attack/defense control...that 's what deserves you the bonus

[t-o-m]

np qwert

As for the update, i love it, but could you turn down the ocpacity of the picture in the sea?
It would be nice with a little more, i wont say texture, but alternating colours for waves, but subtly.

[Qwert]

This thing about collecting a series of important capitols ..originally you may have thought this to be : you are an entente player and get to occupy these central power capitols and voila the war is over and you deserve a bonus.
That may have been the case in the real world, but on this map, it means as a player you control all central power capitols ..now go for world domination and attack all other territories.
So the bonus significance should be something of the sort "coherent HQ control" or "unified HQ control".
All HQ's of the Entente armies and that of the Central Powers means more effective troops and attack/defense control...that 's what deserves you the bonus

Aim want to say,that if you hold Central Powers Capital,then game is over and you are winner.Also if you hold all Entente powers capitals you also a winner,no need for any kind of bonuses.

[Qwert]

Fix and change list:
Fix speling mistakes
Change Yellow to Gray
Erase border-Sweden Norway
Add more opacity on water.
New features;
8 starting position.
new 5 territory.
2 gameplay objective>
If you hold 4 central powers Capitals,game is over and you are winner. If you hold 4 Entente powers capitals,again you are winner.

Click image to enlarge.

note-numbers from 1-8 show starting positions,and they will not be on final version.