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Poison Rome [Quenched]

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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby Incandenza on Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:35 pm

danfrank wrote:
Incandenza wrote:
dyrtydog wrote:i really dont understand bonuses in this map--can you PM to let me know? I am trying it now.

Also...how do you attack a GOD if there are no pathways?


The answers to both of your questions are contained in the map legend.



The legend does not explain what the reward is for holding bonuses


That wasn't the question. He wanted to know how bonuses work (family bonuses are explained in the legend), and how the Gods connect (also explained in the legend).

For the record, the reward for holding family bonuses is right there on the map in roman numerals.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, it's just when it comes to complex maps like this one, I'm very much a "give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime" kind of person. By learning how to read and interpret a complex legend on a complex map, it will help the questioner understand other complex maps.
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby dyrtydog on Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:43 pm

ok....well Mr Jesus, in the game that I am in, I swore by the "legend" my partner had a bonus--why does he not?

and noooo, i does NOT explain how to hit a GOD, there are no columns hitting them

i understand your philophophy, but damn....its a new map-- a friendly tip might be nice. :roll:
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby dyrtydog on Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:47 pm

so you need to have an emperor or dictaor to hit a God?

but why didnt my partner get a marriage bonus of +1? Game 5104025
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby Echospree on Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 pm

dyrtydog wrote:so you need to have an emperor or dictaor to hit a God?

but why didnt my partner get a marriage bonus of +1? Game 5104025


You need to own the children, too.

Family Unit Bonus requires husband, wife and all children; all of them border each other.
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby Incandenza on Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:54 pm

dyrtydog wrote:ok....well Mr Jesus, in the game that I am in, I swore by the "legend" my partner had a bonus--why does he not?

and noooo, i does NOT explain how to hit a GOD, there are no columns hitting them

i understand your philophophy, but damn....its a new map-- a friendly tip might be nice. :roll:


Fair enough. In looking at Game 5104025, I can only assume that you think blue, because he has Proconsul Caesar and Aurelia Cotta, has a bonus. In fact, family bonuses require wife, husband, and children. In this case, blue would need to take Dictator Julius Caesar and Julia Major to have that family bonus. Good rule of thumb: for a family bonus, you need to take every terit that connects the round orange bonus symbol.

However, you are incorrect in assuming that the legend does not explain the Gods. From the legend: "Gods +2 autodeploy border Emperors and Dictators but not each other". Hence, Gods may attacked and be attacked by any terit with Emperor and Dictator in the name.

edit: fastposted twice
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:30 pm

Incandenza wrote:Okay, I would be very much in favor of:

1. having the "missed" neutral start be Julia instead of Gnaeus Pompeous, gives 2 people a chance at the bonus
2. starting Pompeia Sulla with a neutral 2
3. perhaps lowering a couple of the Emperors from 5 to 4 and maybe bumping Dicator JC up to a 5... One of the problems with Dictator JC is that you can have a pretty unassailable bonus behind that neutral, as long as you control Julia, Gnaeus, and Cornelia Cinna, but it's worth keeping DJC high-ish to keep a player from scooping up what amounts to a 1-border +4. Conversely, Emperors Augustus and Tiberius are much more high-traffic areas, and by keeping those neutrals high, I think it overly segments the map. Consider bringing them down to a 4 or maybe even a 3, to improve the map's overall flow, especially for Augustus, since it would make DJC more vulnerable.
4. In the spirit of cleaning up lines of advance, consider moving the neutral from Octavia Minor to Claudius Marcellus.

Part of me wants to knock the gods down to a neutral 2, since atm they aren't particularly attractive targets, but I can see how they'd be more effective in multiplayer games (I've only played 1v1 and 2v2 thus far).

If I think of anything more, I'll let ya know. I know it's a lot, but a map like this is pretty hard to gameplan ahead of time, which is why the Beta system works (kinda). :D


Oh, yeah, and I think an argument could be made for removing the neutral start from Agripinnella. It's another map-clogger, you can't drop a bonus with it, and all the terit can do that's special is bombard one other terit... might as well let someone start with it and open up that area of the map a bit.


OK Changes thus far are:
1. Gnaeus Pompeus - gets neutral 3
2. Pompeia Sulla - gets neutral 2
3. Dictator Julius Caesar - moved up to 5 neutrals
3. Not in favour of moving Octivia Minor neutrals to Claudius Marcellus
4. Neutrals on Agrippinella removed.
5. Leaving Gods and Emperors as they are.

Below image is also on front page as requested, but adjusted xml has not been sent to lackattack yet, pending other feedback.

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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby iancanton on Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:21 am

cairnswk wrote:1. Gnaeus Pompeus - gets neutral 3

2 neutrals instead of 3 is logical because all of the other neutrals for those who are neither emperors nor dictators are 2. i like the other changes.

thanks for the page 1 image that shows neutrals, even though the gods' neutrals are missing.

ian. :)
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:23 am

iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:1. Gnaeus Pompeus - gets neutral 3

2 neutrals instead of 3 is logical because all of the other neutrals for those who are neither emperors nor dictators are 2. i like the other changes.

thanks for the page 1 image that shows neutrals, even though the gods' neutrals are missing.

ian. :)


Pompeus chagned to 2 neutrals, and image reloaded with God neutrals on it. :oops: Thanks Ian, please refresh.
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:24 am

Should i upload new changes now in xml?
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby Captain_Scarlet on Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:02 am

thank you CairnsWK really enjoying this map :D
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:06 am

Captain_Scarlet wrote:thank you CairnsWK really enjoying this map :D

Excellent Captain_Scarlet. That's what i like to hear. Happy playing with the Emperors :)
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:42 pm

iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:1. Gnaeus Pompeus - gets neutral 3

2 neutrals instead of 3 is logical because all of the other neutrals for those who are neither emperors nor dictators are 2. i like the other changes.
thanks for the page 1 image that shows neutrals, even though the gods' neutrals are missing.
ian. :)

Incandenza wrote:The answers to both of your questions are contained in the map legend.


you know guys, i think that those Gods are too easy to gain.
I would like to bump them up to 4 or 5 because once someone has gained one, that gives that autodeploy of +2 and gives that person a rather hefty edge that is kept.
What do you think?
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby Gilligan on Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:48 pm

Sorry to bother, but how does Julia Major connect to Caeser?
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:33 pm

Gilligan wrote:Sorry to bother, but how does Julia Major connect to Caeser?

Gill...she is D. Julius Caesar's sister, both have parents Proconsul Caesar and Aureliai Cotta.

Julia Major then married Marcus Balbus and had Atia Caesonia, so this makes her part of two different families who have their own respective bonuses III and 1.

D Julius Caesar had three marriages to Caplurnia, Pompeia Sulla, and Cornelia Cinna all with their family bonuses of I each.
He and Cornelia Cinna had a daughter Julia.

D Julius Caesar adopted Emperor Augustus (before he became Emperor), and that's why there is a red line there connecting those two, but you don't get any bonus for that link.

Caesar also had an Egyptian marriage with Cleopatra, but because that wasn't a roman marriage, their union counts as nil bonus and forms that assault link to Marcus Antonius.

Caesar is a very powerful position in this game.

Hope this helps. :)
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby lgoasklucyl on Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:12 am

andreslh wrote:this is a HORRIBLE map


Because he's a troll. Look at his games, he hasn't even played it yet :roll:

I'm, personally, rather excited for this map and can't wait until all the game play is sorted so I can safely hop in :)

Congrats on another fantastic map Cairns! =D>
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby Gilligan on Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:03 am

cairnswk wrote:
Gilligan wrote:Sorry to bother, but how does Julia Major connect to Caeser?

Gill...she is D. Julius Caesar's sister, both have parents Proconsul Caesar and Aureliai Cotta.

Julia Major then married Marcus Balbus and had Atia Caesonia, so this makes her part of two different families who have their own respective bonuses III and 1.

D Julius Caesar had three marriages to Caplurnia, Pompeia Sulla, and Cornelia Cinna all with their family bonuses of I each.
He and Cornelia Cinna had a daughter Julia.

D Julius Caesar adopted Emperor Augustus (before he became Emperor), and that's why there is a red line there connecting those two, but you don't get any bonus for that link.

Caesar also had an Egyptian marriage with Cleopatra, but because that wasn't a roman marriage, their union counts as nil bonus and forms that assault link to Marcus Antonius.

Caesar is a very powerful position in this game.

Hope this helps. :)


Thanks cairns, I was just misunderstanding the marriage symbol.
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby Dexsting on Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

I'm a little lurker, but wanted to put in my 2 cents here; This map looks great!

I think the gods are being undervalued and worth a lot. In FOW they'll show you each dictator/emporer. You can attack all the dictators/emporers through them as well getting rid of most bonuses people could have. I don't think they should get any more neutrals than 3, and this helps keep Ceaser from being too awesome.
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:48 pm

Dexsting wrote:I'm a little lurker, but wanted to put in my 2 cents here; This map looks great!

I think the gods are being undervalued and worth a lot. In FOW they'll show you each dictator/emporer. You can attack all the dictators/emporers through them as well getting rid of most bonuses people could have. I don't think they should get any more neutrals than 3, and this helps keep Ceaser from being too awesome.


Thanks for that input Dexsting. Nice work! :)
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta]

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:57 pm

lgoasklucyl wrote:
andreslh wrote:this is a HORRIBLE map


Because he's a troll. Look at his games, he hasn't even played it yet :roll:

I'm, personally, rather excited for this map and can't wait until all the game play is sorted so I can safely hop in :)

Congrats on another fantastic map Cairns! =D>


Thanks lgoasklucyl, much appreciated. :)
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:05 pm

Adjusted XML for upload to lackattack.

Changes uploaded are:
1. Gnaeus Pompeus - gets neutral 2
2. Pompeia Sulla - gets neutral 2
3. Dictator Julius Caesar - moved up to 5 neutrals
4. Neutrals on Agrippinella removed.
5. Leaving Gods as they are.

http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/_poison_rome_240609.xml
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:54 am

lackattack wrote:
cairnswk wrote:lackattack, resulting from discussions in the thread, below is an adjusted xml for upload on Poison Rome [BETA]

http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/_poison_rome_240609.xml

Thanks.


done!
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby MyTurnToWin on Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:14 am

I am currently in a game on this map. Great idea by the way!

Anyway, I happen to be the Orange player. It is very difficult to see my own territories because the Roman Numerals are encased in almost the same color as my own Orange Player Markers.

I don't know if making the Roman Numerals a different shade of orange would help or if they need to be a color completely different than all Player Markers.
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:42 pm

MyTurnToWin wrote:I am currently in a game on this map. Great idea by the way!

Anyway, I happen to be the Orange player. It is very difficult to see my own territories because the Roman Numerals are encased in almost the same color as my own Orange Player Markers.

I don't know if making the Roman Numerals a different shade of orange would help or if they need to be a color completely different than all Player Markers.

MyturnToWin, thanks for commenting. let's see if others have this issue also..... :)
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby brian fletcher on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:38 pm

great map cairns.
know it`ll take a few games to get the gist of all the little quirks but this is one map i intend on studying intently and becoming a master at.
just one thing i have noticed. in the legend "gods border emperors and dictators" doesnt having the (s) after dictator imply that there are more than one?
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Re: Poison Rome [Beta] Neutral Start Adjustments

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:35 am

brian fletcher wrote:great map cairns.
know it`ll take a few games to get the gist of all the little quirks but this is one map i intend on studying intently and becoming a master at.
just one thing i have noticed. in the legend "gods border emperors and dictators" doesnt having the (s) after dictator imply that there are more than one?

Thanks Brian, glad to hear you'll possibly enjoy this one. There are some very easy plays on this one.
The plural on Dictator is, yes, unnecessary and the implication is there, but there is only one Dictator in this family tree.
I'll change it next time there is an upload.
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