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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby TaCktiX on Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:15 pm

I don't see much on the gameplay front, but some wording could improve.

- In the legend, "Towers and Catapults in the same quadrant can Bombard each others" is bad grammar. Drop the s from others.
- Bridge <direction> sounds really weird, especially since the entire map is based off of British feudal terminology (for the most part). Changing them to W Bridge, E Bridge, etc. would be more natural.

On graphics, the texture on the fields is a little overwhelming. Less noise should help out.
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby mibi on Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:24 pm

Might the Castle/Courts/Bridges function as a super continent, with 8 borders and a bonus of 19? with out the castle/tower bonus due to catapult bombardment you still have a +13 with 4 borders.

Also doesn't the castle/tower bonus seem redundant? I am not sure of the point in having both? does the castle bonus INCLUDE the towers or is just that one castle territory. That seems unclear.

THe catapult device seems a bit unclear too, one says the catapult can bombard the castle, so is that just the castle space or any of the towers, since they are part of the castle too right? But the other says the catapults can only bombard the tower in the same quadrant. Also, the quandrant explination is tricky because there are five distinct regions. I get it, but some people may wonder what quadrant is what. Maybe the towers can bombard the closes catapult and vice versa.

I think the biggest perception issue is that the Towers look like they are part of the castle, as Castles often have towers that look just like that. But I think, from your legend, that the towers and castle are not part of the same thing, and the castle is only the mini castle on the inside and not the greater castle.

You should unify or clarify that.
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:59 pm

TaCktiX wrote:I don't see much on the gameplay front, but some wording could improve.

- In the legend, "Towers and Catapults in the same quadrant can Bombard each others" is bad grammar. Drop the s from others.
- Bridge <direction> sounds really weird, especially since the entire map is based off of British feudal terminology (for the most part). Changing them to W Bridge, E Bridge, etc. would be more natural.


i'm sorry but i'm not english.. i will correct it! thanx! ;)

TaCktix wrote:On graphics, the texture on the fields is a little overwhelming. Less noise should help out.


i'm not sure that i understand what you mean.. i will try to blur it or dull it. ;)

mibi wrote:Might the Castle/Courts/Bridges function as a super continent, with 8 borders and a bonus of 19? with out the castle/tower bonus due to catapult bombardment you still have a +13 with 4 borders.

Also doesn't the castle/tower bonus seem redundant? I am not sure of the point in having both? does the castle bonus INCLUDE the towers or is just that one castle territory. That seems unclear.

THe catapult device seems a bit unclear too, one says the catapult can bombard the castle, so is that just the castle space or any of the towers, since they are part of the castle too right? But the other says the catapults can only bombard the tower in the same quadrant. Also, the quandrant explination is tricky because there are five distinct regions. I get it, but some people may wonder what quadrant is what. Maybe the towers can bombard the closes catapult and vice versa.

I think the biggest perception issue is that the Towers look like they are part of the castle, as Castles often have towers that look just like that. But I think, from your legend, that the towers and castle are not part of the same thing, and the castle is only the mini castle on the inside and not the greater castle.

You should unify or clarify that.


i'm not with you.

1- in the legend the castle has one bonus (+2) and one colour, and the towers has one bonus (+4) and a different colour, so i think it's pretty clear that they are different continent with different bonus and if you hold both you gain both bonus (what sense will have to write 2 different bonus if the castle and towers are the same continent or the same thing?). by the way, in the map there are army circles on each tower and only one circle on the little castle, so i think it's also pretty clear that the little towers of the little castle are (infact) part of the little castle and the little castle aren't part of the towers.. more than this, i don't know if i learn bad the english, but in my opinion the little castle (inner) is a "castle", and the rest (outer) is a "defensive wall with towers" and not another castle.
by the way, we've decided from the start that castle will have a one territory bonus, cause it's the heart of the map and the game must be concerned on it too much that is possible.

2- your problems with the info about the bombardments start from the wrong reading of the map that is in point 1, clear it and there will not be any troubles. ;)
by the way, you said "the quandrant explination is tricky because there are five distinct regions", but i see only 4 country with a catapult, so i think it's pretty obviusly that the catapults perform one quadrant each (they are also in the diagonals between the towers and the four angles of the map).. how can the courts be a quadrant if it's a circular country and if it doesn't have a catapult??
however, each tower have the name of the country in the quadrant with the connected catapult, so i think that is impossible to be more clear, but if someone have concrete ideas to make it more clear, i will proudly listen it.

at the same, if someone have concrete suggestions (and not only the hope to find something wrong or an hard problem that i will must solve) for the other things, please tell me how i can improve the map and i will do it like a did till now. thanx.

p.s. qwert, i made a small map for a test and it looking great. when i will fix the gameplay (with a stamp..) i will make an official small map and post it. ;)
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby mibi on Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:28 pm

pikkio wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:I don't see much on the gameplay front, but some wording could improve.

- In the legend, "Towers and Catapults in the same quadrant can Bombard each others" is bad grammar. Drop the s from others.
- Bridge <direction> sounds really weird, especially since the entire map is based off of British feudal terminology (for the most part). Changing them to W Bridge, E Bridge, etc. would be more natural.


i'm sorry but i'm not english.. i will correct it! thanx! ;)

TaCktix wrote:On graphics, the texture on the fields is a little overwhelming. Less noise should help out.


i'm not sure that i understand what you mean.. i will try to blur it or dull it. ;)

mibi wrote:Might the Castle/Courts/Bridges function as a super continent, with 8 borders and a bonus of 19? with out the castle/tower bonus due to catapult bombardment you still have a +13 with 4 borders.

Also doesn't the castle/tower bonus seem redundant? I am not sure of the point in having both? does the castle bonus INCLUDE the towers or is just that one castle territory. That seems unclear.

THe catapult device seems a bit unclear too, one says the catapult can bombard the castle, so is that just the castle space or any of the towers, since they are part of the castle too right? But the other says the catapults can only bombard the tower in the same quadrant. Also, the quandrant explination is tricky because there are five distinct regions. I get it, but some people may wonder what quadrant is what. Maybe the towers can bombard the closes catapult and vice versa.

I think the biggest perception issue is that the Towers look like they are part of the castle, as Castles often have towers that look just like that. But I think, from your legend, that the towers and castle are not part of the same thing, and the castle is only the mini castle on the inside and not the greater castle.

You should unify or clarify that.


i'm not with you.

1- in the legend the castle has one bonus (+2) and one colour, and the towers has one bonus (+4) and a different colour, so i think it's pretty clear that they are different continent with different bonus and if you hold both you gain both bonus (what sense will have to write 2 different bonus if the castle and towers are the same continent or the same thing?). by the way, in the map there are army circles on each tower and only one circle on the little castle, so i think it's also pretty clear that the little towers of the little castle are (infact) part of the little castle and the little castle aren't part of the towers.. more than this, i don't know if i learn bad the english, but in my opinion the little castle (inner) is a "castle", and the rest (outer) is a "defensive wall with towers" and not another castle.
by the way, we've decided from the start that castle will have a one territory bonus, cause it's the heart of the map and the game must be concerned on it too much that is possible.

2- your problems with the info about the bombardments start from the wrong reading of the map that is in point 1, clear it and there will not be any troubles. ;)
by the way, you said "the quandrant explination is tricky because there are five distinct regions", but i see only 4 country with a catapult, so i think it's pretty obviusly that the catapults perform one quadrant each (they are also in the diagonals between the towers and the four angles of the map).. how can the courts be a quadrant if it's a circular country and if it doesn't have a catapult??
however, each tower have the name of the country in the quadrant with the connected catapult, so i think that is impossible to be more clear, but if someone have concrete ideas to make it more clear, i will proudly listen it.

at the same, if someone have concrete suggestions (and not only the hope to find something wrong or an hard problem that i will must solve) for the other things, please tell me how i can improve the map and i will do it like a did till now. thanx.

p.s. qwert, i made a small map for a test and it looking great. when i will fix the gameplay (with a stamp..) i will make an official small map and post it. ;)


Please take this point from experience. You are more familiar with this map than anyone else on this website. And because of that, there is quite a difference between what you think is logical and orderly and what some noob thinks is logical and orderly. And all too often, never the twain shall meet.

You really need to look at the map with a fresh perspective, which at this stage in the game is quite possible, so you have to rely on the comments of others. I went through this many times, thinking "are you kidding, it's perfectly clear to me, what the hell is wrong with you people", but alas, it is much better to put some extra effort in on the front end to make it as clear as possible than to do it down the road in front on an angry confused mob.

My issue still stands. You have this thing that many people will ASSUME is a castle. Trust me, people will not take the time to figure out that the castle is only the mini castle and not the outer castle. People will assume the mini castle and the towers and walls are all part of what is called the Castle. And rightfully so as the entire structure looks like one large castle, with the mini castle being an inner structure, or keep. I have never seen a "castle" that was surrounded by some tile type of floor and then stone walls. The pattern you used for the floor outside the castle serves to unify the tower and mini castle as one structure. Even in the legend you use the tile to denote castle, when the tile extends right to the walls and tower. So claiming the castle is actually only the mini castle is not accurate, as you have it denoted as the mini-castle and surrounding tile.

Bottom line is that it is confusing. Take this from someone who is a maker of complicated and confusing maps, and even I am slightly confused. And if I am slightly confused, then you can bet other people will be incredibly so.

My suggestions are to either get rid of the wall bonus and make the castle bonus conditional on getting the mini castle and the towers, you should then unify the colors of the entire castle. OR, change the tile pattern to something that separates the tower from the mini castle. maybe dirt or something. I would also make the mini castle less mini and the towers a bit smaller as the scale looks rather odd.

As to my other concerns about the legend, you can consider my comments as 'noobs advocate'. i think a better explination might be, "Towers can bombard opposing catapult ~~~ Catapult can bombard opposing tower or castle."
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:26 pm

well, probably it's too many time that i'm on this map, and probably my patience is near to finish. infact i'm quite boring by the people that come from nowhere and say "it's not clear" or "i don't like that". a person work hard for month, trying to listen all the suggestions and adjust all the problems, and there is always one new reader that come and say that a thing is not clear for the most people. and now i'm asking to myself: and why all the people that read this discussion before you never had problems to understand?

you talk about the tile pattern. how can a dirt pattern give different effect? you said that "The pattern you used for the floor outside the castle serves to unify the tower and mini castle as one structure. Even in the legend you use the tile to denote castle, when the tile extends right to the walls and tower. ", and a dirt pattern don't do it?

say that tower can bombard opposite catapult isn't more clear than now, cause "opposite" it's a concept more generally than "quadrant", and for the mountain tower tha mountain catapult is opposite than the forest catapult.. and however, the names of the tower leave every dubt from all the not-dumb minds.

the bonus of the castle is +2 and for towers +4, how it's possible to think that castle bonus include the little castle and the towers? if you hold the 4 towers you get +4 and if you hold towers and "little castle" you get only +2??
at the same, if you read the map wrong (like a noob can do), all the things (map, bonus, names, bombard info, ecc..) will be incoherent and say to you that you clearly on the wrong way.

and when i try a map for the first time, it's oblviusly that i can have some troubles reading it and don't understand all the things, and probably i will loose the game, but in the second game i certainly get the right reading key and all will be clear for me (then i can loose again, but not cause the map it's not clear for all the dumbs like me).

by the way, the thing that really hurt me is that many maps are quenched and are less clear than other that still remain on foundry, only cause nobody say or not say that many people may not understand the map, when only the dumbs cannot understand those map at the same mode.

so, if many other people tell me that it's unclear i will try to change it, otherwise i will keep it like now.

p.s. excuse me mibi, i'm not angry with you, it's the situation that make me crazy. ;)
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby mibi on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:05 pm

I understand your frustration. I was the same way when I was doing my first map Siege! I was consistently saying things were fine as is, but there was always someone who suggested a change, its quite annoying, all I can say is 'welcome to the foundry'. Frustration is an accepted currency 'round here.

One reason why some maps make it to quench land with serious problems is really because people don't give a shit. Lack luster ideas breed lack luster comments. There is also many more maps divided among less eye balls than there use to be, so some maps just slide through.

The only reason I comment on this map is because I think it is one of the best ideas and best graphics to come out of the foundry in a very long time, and it would be unfortunate if it were quenched with clarity issues.

I won't go back and forth with you on the previous points though.
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:30 am

thax. i really appreciate what you say and, again, please excuse me.

but i'm sure that the map it's clear right now, and i wait any other opinion about this before i change my point of view. ;)
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:47 am

Sorry it's not my right role (pikkio has the ownership of this map) but i wanna spend few words about what happened:

Mibi speaks right, Pikkio also.
The problem is i think that foundry works incorrectly and this cause a continue sense of frustration for map makers.
I wrote to Mr.Benn a PM offering myself with a concrete possible solution to help map makers to be less frustrating and i hope he will consider my proposal and he will spoke with others CA about it.
Anyways, this isn't the right place to speak about this...( any memebers/CA's that are interested to know more about , can contact me with a PM ).

Now I will speak with Pikkio and we try to solve some problems to sodisfy the community requests at large ( map is a pikkio creation not a community one.) but i don't think we will do all requested... :?

Let us few days to work on final (we hope ;) ) gameplay.

Have a nice day :)

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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby Qwert on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:53 am

i must say several thing what im think is wrong(you can ignore if you like)
1.I think that you need to move territory pass,and then to create bonus box who will go down to edge of map,now its not look good that you have one territory who stand in these corner.
2.When i look these houses in issle,they all have shadows,and wheat-oats and oil seed dont have shadows
3.In bonus box all bonus squares stand in one line,except Castle square,also hes value is small text size then other
4.in bonus box one full bridge can cover all three bonuses instead these small part of bridge.
5.I must say that name Dunes not present what i see on map,its more appropriate is Desert,because you dont have dunes on map.

If you need visual explanation(if you dont understand something of mine opservations),you just tell me,and i will create something for more explanation.

I see that you have conversation abouth clarification of bombardment.

Mibi is correct for these word "quadrant",dont forget,these play also small children,and they can be confused,because you dont have quadrants on map.Maybe need to find some better words to explane these.

All others i dont see to be confusing,and mine language is not english.
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:20 am

the problem is that i thought about this questions, and i worked to make it more clear as it's possible (helping by some comunity suggestions) so:

- i named the tower by the outer quadrant that they are connected, to make clear which catapult they can boombard and be bombarded by.
- i made the castle and towers with different colours in the map and in the legend, to make clear what i mean with "castle" and what with "towers"
- i putted a little castle inner the walls (in the first versions there was nothing inner to identify the castle territory and bonus) with an army circle on the top, for the same cause
- i made the castle smaller, cause i want it clearly separated from the towers and walls and the tiles rapresent a kind of inner court that divide castle from towers
- i putted towers with little doors to be sure that it's clear the connection from towers to castle and from towers to courts

if i never made changes on it to be more clear, i certainly didn't have that reaction..

however, i don't want to unify towers and castle bonus, cause the particularity of the map is that castle have a +2 bonus and is only one territory. it start neutral, but obviusly all players will try to hold it and the result is an hard fight for the control of the castle (expecially plus the towers).

answering to qwerty:

1- yes, i thoght many time to eliminate pass territory.. the decision is very near to be taken. ;)
2- i take it from different sets.. i will try to homogenize the houses and the farms
3- one of my causes for the elimination of the pass is that castle bonus in the legend can't stay in the right position because of the less space..
4- good idea!!
5- in the dunes territory there are some dunes. i take it from the same set of the desert texture. they aren't too high or pronounced, but i think they are good for the little size of the territory.

for the "quadrant" word, i think that "opposite" is more unclear, so i think that we need some help from an english native speaker.. :roll: by the way, in my opinion the towers names will easily solve every dubt about the quadrant words (for babies and dumbs too)..
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby Qwert on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:45 pm

qwert
1.I think that you need to move territory pass,and then to create bonus box who will go down to edge of map,now its not look good that you have one territory who stand in these corner.
2.When i look these houses in issle,they all have shadows,and wheat-oats and oil seed dont have shadows
3.In bonus box all bonus squares stand in one line,except Castle square,also hes value is small text size then other
4.in bonus box one full bridge can cover all three bonuses instead these small part of bridge.
5.I must say that name Dunes not present what i see on map,its more appropriate is Desert,because you dont have dunes on map.

pikkio
1- yes, i thoght many time to eliminate pass territory.. the decision is very near to be taken.
2- i take it from different sets.. i will try to homogenize the houses and the farms
3- one of my causes for the elimination of the pass is that castle bonus in the legend can't stay in the right position because of the less space..
4- good idea!!
5- in the dunes territory there are some dunes. i take it from the same set of the desert texture. they aren't too high or pronounced, but i think they are good for the little size of the territory.

reply
1.i dont say to eliminate these territory,you can redraw borders and move these territory, because you have enough space to create new borders with these territory out of area for bonus box.
2.only what you need its to add shadows,to be same like other.
3.like i say,you have plenty space in mountains to redesign borders and to move these territory.
4.ok
5.When i look Mountains,Trees,houses,Forest,Catapults,they all have 3D effect,but Dunes dont have these effect,and for me its still desert,because i dont have feel to look Dunes on these map.

In mine map i use some kind sign or marks to people better understand connections(or in Western Front Symbols who show what area is attack area and what area is target)or in Imperium romanum dots show names of territory in insets.
I think that you will solve problem in these way-These is Medieval period,so maybe you can add small flags-example-small green flags to one catapult and small green flag to hes opposite tower, and then you can explane in bonus box"Catapult can bombard Towers with same colour flags,and towers can back fire to same colour flags catapults" or some similar words(english is not mine language), and i think that you will bring feel of Medieval period with war flags.
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby MrBenn on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:48 pm

adding little flags to the towers/catapaults is a good idea. You could then word the legend "Catapaults can bombard their corresponding tower" etc.
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:52 pm

MrBenn wrote:adding little flags to the towers/catapaults is a good idea. You could then word the legend "Catapaults can bombard their corresponding tower" etc.


Good idea! :D
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:31 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
MrBenn wrote:adding little flags to the towers/catapaults is a good idea. You could then word the legend "Catapaults can bombard their corresponding tower" etc.


Good idea! :D
Thank You Benn
=D>


the original idea is from qwert.. :P

i will work on it! thanx! ;)
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby Qwert on Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:33 am

qwertThu Mar 12, 2009 1:45 am
I think that you will solve problem in these way-These is Medieval period,so maybe you can add small flags-example-small green flags to one catapult and small green flag to hes opposite tower, and then you can explane in bonus box"Catapult can bombard Towers with same colour flags,and towers can back fire to same colour flags catapults" or some similar words(english is not mine language), and i think that you will bring feel of Medieval period with war flags.


by MrBenn » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:48 am
adding little flags to the towers/catapaults is a good idea. You could then word the legend "Catapaults can bombard their corresponding tower" etc.


by thenobodies80 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:52 am

MrBenn wrote:
adding little flags to the towers/catapaults is a good idea. You could then word the legend "Catapaults can bombard their corresponding tower" etc.


Good idea!
Thank You Benn

Briliant idea,these MrBeen is very smart person,how im not figure these idea. :-k
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:39 am

sorry, qwert :oops:
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:58 pm

waiting the gameplay stamp, i worked on your graphic suggestions. ;)

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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby Qwert on Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:52 pm

Now these is very good with flags. And words in Explanation box is very clear and explane great Catapult and tower bombardment. Thing what you need to do its to put flags to be more
visible(maybe to be more bigger and to have black outer line).

Still you forget some things
-add shadows to mills
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:36 pm

i'm sorry but i'm not able to do it.. :roll:

it's impossible to make more big the flags cause they are too small and with a few pixels, so increase the dimensions will make they undefinied..
for the black border is the same.. i can do it without an innatural effect.. i'm not a digital designer and i'm not able to do it well.

i will try to find another flag..
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby danfrank on Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:47 pm

This is map has come along way in a short time.. This map is looking awesome and its definitly going to be alot of fun.. Thanks for your dedication on an original idea :!: :!: We definitly need more creative original maps... Thanks for your dedication and i look forward to playing it... alot :!: :!: =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-10: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby iancanton on Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:04 am

mibi wrote:Might the Castle/Courts/Bridges function as a super continent, with 8 borders and a bonus of 19? with out the castle/tower bonus due to catapult bombardment you still have a +13 with 4 borders.

i think this is actually a good feature, since we want play to be centred on the middle part of the map.

mibi wrote:I think the biggest perception issue is that the Towers look like they are part of the castle, as Castles often have towers that look just like that. But I think, from your legend, that the towers and castle are not part of the same thing, and the castle is only the mini castle on the inside and not the greater castle.

if it really does confuse people, then it's possible to rename the castle as the keep, though it's probably not necessary. what do others think?

http://www.castles.me.uk/castle-keep.htm
http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/stonekeepcastles.htm

after the changes to the bridges (the new bridge connections are better than the ones that i originally proposed) the gameplay is nearly perfectly balanced and i shall not be asking for any changes in layout or attack routes, unless someone sees major improvements. just like in oceania, the bonuses are good too.

u do need to reduce the neutrals on the castle and towers since, in 1v1 or 2v2 games, players will simply attack each other and ignore the castle and towers: who will try to kill 12 neutrals for a +2 bonus each turn? at the moment, the castle will be like the roma territory in imperium romanum. i suggest that all neutrals be reduced to 2, to activate the castle bonus in every game.

we're very close to a gameplay stamp!

ian. :)
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:29 am

Thank you all! =D>

About this:

iancanton wrote:
mibi wrote:Might the Castle/Courts/Bridges function as a super continent, with 8 borders and a bonus of 19? with out the castle/tower bonus due to catapult bombardment you still have a +13 with 4 borders.

i think this is actually a good feature, since we want play to be centred on the middle part of the map.


I will discuss with pikkio about , but i suppose that he doesn't like very much this feature and i'm glad to leave to him the last decision about it. :mrgreen:

iancanton wrote:
mibi wrote:I think the biggest perception issue is that the Towers look like they are part of the castle, as Castles often have towers that look just like that. But I think, from your legend, that the towers and castle are not part of the same thing, and the castle is only the mini castle on the inside and not the greater castle.

if it really does confuse people, then it's possible to rename the castle as the keep, though it's probably not necessary. what do others think?


We think that's clear, anyways raname it as "keep" could be a good option.But i think we will change it only if there's more requests about.

iancanton wrote:u do need to reduce the neutrals on the castle and towers since, in 1v1 or 2v2 games, players will simply attack each other and ignore the castle and towers: who will try to kill 12 neutrals for a +2 bonus each turn? at the moment, the castle will be like the roma territory in imperium romanum. i suggest that all neutrals be reduced to 2, to activate the castle bonus in every game.


Are you saying we have to set them all with 2 starting neutrals or we have to subctract 2 armies and leave them with +3 starting neutrals?.
  • towers and castle/keep - 2 armies on each
  • towers and castle/keep - 3 armies on each
I think 2 could be a smaller amount, personally i think 3 could be better.


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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby iancanton on Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:13 am

thenobodies80 wrote:About this:

iancanton wrote:
mibi wrote:Might the Castle/Courts/Bridges function as a super continent, with 8 borders and a bonus of 19? with out the castle/tower bonus due to catapult bombardment you still have a +13 with 4 borders.

i think this is actually a good feature, since we want play to be centred on the middle part of the map.


I will discuss with pikkio about , but i suppose that he doesn't like very much this feature and i'm glad to leave to him the last decision about it. :mrgreen:

castle bonus + towers bonus + courts bonus + bridges bonus = 2 + 4 + 8 + 5 = 19. 4 towers and 4 bridges are borders. this is what u have just now!

thenobodies80 wrote:
iancanton wrote:u do need to reduce the neutrals on the castle and towers since, in 1v1 or 2v2 games, players will simply attack each other and ignore the castle and towers: who will try to kill 12 neutrals for a +2 bonus each turn? at the moment, the castle will be like the roma territory in imperium romanum. i suggest that all neutrals be reduced to 2, to activate the castle bonus in every game.


Are you saying we have to set them all with 2 starting neutrals or we have to subctract 2 armies and leave them with +3 starting neutrals?.
  • towers and castle/keep - 2 armies on each
  • towers and castle/keep - 3 armies on each
I think 2 could be a smaller amount, personally i think 3 could be better.

3 starting neutrals on castle and towers will prevent someone from gaining the castle bonus on turn 2. good!

ian. :)
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:57 pm

iancanton wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:About this:

iancanton wrote:
mibi wrote:Might the Castle/Courts/Bridges function as a super continent, with 8 borders and a bonus of 19? with out the castle/tower bonus due to catapult bombardment you still have a +13 with 4 borders.

i think this is actually a good feature, since we want play to be centred on the middle part of the map.


I will discuss with pikkio about , but i suppose that he doesn't like very much this feature and i'm glad to leave to him the last decision about it. :mrgreen:

castle bonus + towers bonus + courts bonus + bridges bonus = 2 + 4 + 8 + 5 = 19. 4 towers and 4 bridges are borders. this is what u have just now!


the castle is a border too. ;)
if you hold castle, towers, courts, bridges, you will take 19 bonus, and you have 9 borders to defend (5 only from bombardment and 4 normal). yes it's a big deal, but in several map there's deals like this when you hold several adjacent continents.. look at charleston map, if you hold the easter country you can defend from 3 territories a bonus of 9 (east cooper, Mt. Pleasant, Isle of Palms) or you can defend from 2 territories a bonus of 17 (east cooper, Mt. Pleasant, Isle of Palms, Historic Dist, N. Charleston).

however, i think this is at least the strategy of the map. the goal is to hold that supercontinents cause it's a big deal and if someone can keep it for one round, probably he will win the game. so everyone will try to conquer it and the others must truce and stop the one that is near to hold it. it's precisely what i want for this map. ;)
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:43 pm

i asked to ian.

He looks good for the centre of the map how it is now.
We haven't to modificate it.
As you said it's only a discussion about strategy.

He asked only to set tower with 2 neutrals and castle with 3/4 neutrals.

I think 2 towers and 4 castle ;)
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