Conquer Club

I like this map a lot!

A minor tweak, though.

There is a brown spot just to the right of the East Bridge that makes it seem as if the bridge is connected to the brown section as well as Woodland. This is the only one that is not clear.

I think it's a very clever map... Now how many forced neutrals? Nine? Do we really need them?

hatchman wrote:I think it's a very clever map... Now how many forced neutrals? Nine? Do we really need them?

what about making the bridge neutrals 2´s?

reducing the bridge neutrals to 2 each is possible. at the moment, about half of 1v1 games finish with no bridges captured. we must start all bridges neutral because this is an essential part of the gameplay design for this map.

however, we have a more pressing problem in 2-player games. player 1 starts with 12 regions and a deployment of 4 troops so, by winning only 1 region from player 2, he secures an immediate advantage, cutting player 2's starting deployment to only 3 troops. also in 2-player games, the castle is almost never captured, for example Game 4992779.

we can stop these two things from happening if we code the 4 towers as start positions and not the 8 courts. if we do this, then there will be only 5 regions that are forced to start neutral: the tower and 4 bridges.

ian.

I disagree. I'm in about a dozen of these games right now and I find the neutral towers to be the best possible turn 1 card territory half the time.

iancanton wrote:reducing the bridge neutrals to 2 each is possible.

Agreed

iancanton wrote:however, we have a more pressing problem in 2-player games. player 1 starts with 12 regions and a deployment of 4 troops so, by winning only 1 region from player 2, he secures an immediate advantage, cutting player 2's starting deployment to only 3 troops. also in 2-player games, the castle is almost never captured, for example Game 4992779.

we can stop these two things from happening if we code the 4 towers as start positions and not the 8 courts. if we do this, then there will be only 5 regions that are forced to start neutral: the tower and 4 bridges.

ian.

About this i'm confused, you're saying to set the 4 towers as starting position instead of courts?
Why there's a tower as starting neutral?

well spotted, that man! if we set as start positions the towers instead of the courts, then the castle and 4 bridges will be forced to start neutral.

ian.

I'll talk with Pikkio about these changes...
thank you guys!

The courts are set as starting positions because there are 8 of them, which ensures that everybody has an equal chance of getting the castle/courts in ANY game-type.

I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

ttfn,
Hops

Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

ttfn,
Hops

Where do we write that?

Towers and catapults with the same coloured flag can bombard each other

I agree with the 12 region comment. That's my biggest beef with the Siege Map. Getting rid of 2 neutrals would help a ton.

thenobodies80 wrote:

Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

ttfn,
Hops

Where do we write that?

Towers and catapults with the same coloured flag can bombard each other

Coppiece is yellow. Ridge is red.

OlJock99 wrote:I agree with the 12 region comment. That's my biggest beef with the Siege Map. Getting rid of 2 neutrals would help a ton.

Perhaps the Catapults start off as Neuts as well?

8 for the courts seems excesive. why not 6?

One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected

Arachnophobia wrote:One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected

I belive, you can bombard from the catapults, or you can take the towers from where they connect with the outside, and then the towers can attack the castle

Lozz

I'm just tired of this recent trend of maps with a billion neutrals. Bogs ya down. And it's mainly to minimize a first-round advantage in 1vs1 games I believe? Too much catering to one style of play. Perhaps there should be two versions of each map: a 1vs1 version and an everything else version...

lozzini wrote:

Arachnophobia wrote:One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected

I belive, you can bombard from the catapults, or you can take the towers from where they connect with the outside, and then the towers can attack the castle

Lozz

Yes, correct.

The castle could be attacked only by the 4 towers. (and bombarded by catatpults)
The towers can be attacked by the courts that border with them. (there's a door)

hatchman wrote:I'm just tired of this recent trend of maps with a billion neutrals. Bogs ya down. And it's mainly to minimize a first-round advantage in 1vs1 games I believe? Too much catering to one style of play. Perhaps there should be two versions of each map: a 1vs1 version and an everything else version...

It's no possible to have 2 versions of a unique map.
Anyway, we're working to fix the neutral/starting points
I'll be ready in a couple of minutes.

thenobodies80

OK, i'd like to know what you think about this option:

• Bridges will start with 2 neutrals. (current:3)
  

  Code: Select all

  <territory>
      <name>East Bridge</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Knight</border>
         <border>Woodland</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>398</smallx>
         <smally>250</smally>
         <largex>529</largex>
         <largey>327</largey>
      </coordinates>
         <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>
<territory>
      <name>North Bridge</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Earl</border>
         <border>Oilseed</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>260</smallx>
         <smally>143</smally>
         <largex>349</largex>
         <largey>184</largey>
      </coordinates>
         <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>
<territory>
      <name>South Bridge</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Bishop</border>
         <border>Peak</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>285</smallx>
         <smally>369</smally>
         <largex>381</largex>
         <largey>483</largey>
      </coordinates>
         <neutral>2</neutral>     
</territory>
<territory>
      <name>West Bridge</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Marquess</border>
         <border>Savannah</border> 
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>144</smallx>
         <smally>275</smally>
         <largex>195</largex>
         <largey>357</largey>
      </coordinates>
         <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>


• Only half of the courts will be starting positions, i picked out the 4 which border with the bridges. (current: 8 courts are starting positions)
• The 4 towers will be coded as starting positions. (current: 2 armies starting neutrals)
  

  Code: Select all

  <positions>
      <position>
      <territory>Bishop</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Earl</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Knight</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Marquess</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Desert Tower</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Field Tower</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Forest Tower</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Mountain Tower</territory>
      </position>
</positions>

• The courts bonus will be reduced to 6 (current: +8)
  

  Code: Select all

  <continent>
      <name>Courts</name>
      <bonus>6</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Abbot</territory>
         <territory>Baron</territory>
         <territory>Bishop</territory>
         <territory>Duke</territory>
         <territory>Earl</territory>
         <territory>Knight</territory>
         <territory>Marquess</territory>
         <territory>Viscount</territory>
      </components>
</continent>

So forced neutrals are reduced from 9 to 5.A player can't start the game with the courts bonus because 50% of them are splitted. The game will be played a bit more in the middle part of the map, but the lower neutral bridges could give an easy choice to connect outside and inside troops.
What do you think?
Suggestions/critics are welcome!

thenobodies80

with this changes the map will be balanced in our opinion. please tell us what you think about. ^_^

only a question: if we change those things, what will happen to the current opened games? do they continue with the last version or do the map rules change in the middle of a game?

pikkio wrote:with this changes the map will be balanced in our opinion. please tell us what you think about. ^_^

only a question: if we change those things, what will happen to the current opened games? do they continue with the last version or do the map rules change in the middle of a game?

Warning: Maps designated as "Beta" might have unbalanced gameplay and undergo changes mid-game. Play at your own risk!

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=browse

ok so there's doors. Dunno, I didnt even see the doors :p. Maybe put arrows to make it clear? Or put roads in the lands that connect them with the doors (to put emphasis on them...)

Map Inspect revealed no doors to me...

hatchman wrote:Map Inspect revealed no doors to me...

I rechecked the xml

From map inspect:

Towers (4) | 4 |
Desert Tower <2> ==> Baron {3} Castle <4>
Field Tower <2> ==> Abbot {3} Castle <4>
Forest Tower <2> ==> Castle <4> Duke {3}
Mountain Tower <2> ==> Castle <4> Viscount {3}

Tower border with adjacent territories and castle.
So you have to take the tower to go to the castle.
For a better explanation here a part of the xml file for a tower and his adjacent territory:
Mountain Tower

Code: Select all

<territory>
   <name>Mountain Tower</name>
   <borders>
   <border>Castle</border>
   <border>Viscount</border>
   </borders>
   <bombardments>
   <bombardment>Ridge</bombardment>
   </bombardments>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>305</smallx>
   <smally>293</smally>
   <largex>406</largex>
   <largey>382</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>

Viscount

Code: Select all

<territory>
   <name>Viscount</name>
   <borders>
   <border>Baron</border>
   <border>Bishop</border>
   <border>Duke</border>
   <border>Knight</border>
   <border>Mountain Tower</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>351</smallx>
   <smally>282</smally>
   <largex>469</largex>
   <largey>367</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>

Obviously the door is the graphic way to explain this

thenobodies80