mibi wrote:Is Portland really as confusing and discombobulated as this map suggests?
lostatlimbo wrote:mibi wrote:Is Portland really as confusing and discombobulated as this map suggests?
boy, that's some helpful criticism. care to tell us what you find confusing?
mibi wrote:...I would be right annoyed if I were a Portland resident and some jackass just turned my city into a child's place mat gone horribly wrong.
lostatlimbo wrote:mibi wrote:...I would be right annoyed if I were a Portland resident and some jackass just turned my city into a child's place mat gone horribly wrong.
Misplace anger much?
I know I've gone astray when the guy who created Supermax: Colored Button Riot! tells me I have too many icons.
The 'demented' parks are reasonably close to their actual shapes, though I can't say the same for scale and location - details sacrificed for clarity and balance.
Ditto for the two reservoirs, which seem quite clear as bodies of water. I'd hoped the grey dimensional door would be mistaken for a maddening maze of residential roads - which any Portland resident would instantly recognize as the "no-drive" zone Ladd's Circle.
I don't expect that labeling it as such in the legend will help explain this, but it is clearly an obstruction. Do forgive me for being a little creative and adding detours that stray from the typical mountain-river-fence trifecta that marks most of the 130 maps in play. I'm equally as sorry for using bikes and parks, instead of the typical cannons and battleships. Are you angry that I have too many icons or just that they aren't violent enough for your tastes?
Since Portland isn't actually a war zone, I thought I'd try something new and highlight the things that make Portland unique. The fact that you can easily get anywhere in town by bike (without being run over) isn't something you can say about most US cities. Ditto to an overabundance of park space. If you had bothered to read the legend, you'd know that the "highways" are a light rail transit system (with the highest ridership in the US). These aren't frivolous icons - they are the whole purpose of having a Portland map. I suppose I could have made the 67th war map or drawn artificial borders over yet another random country, but I elected to try something new instead.
And yes, I opted for a kitschy look. From the very beginning, it was meant to look more like a tourist-y brochure extolling all these Portland-y characteristics. I think clean, clear lines and bold colors work well for this map and, again I'll reference NYC map as my initial inspiration in this regard.
Despite your vitriol, your overlying point was not lost on me. The map was getting a bit cluttered visually, so I've made some changes to minimize this by toning down the boldest icons. I've also converted the bike lanes into their own territories - which I believe improves the look & gameplay and gives the bike lanes more purpose.
As for your ex-girlfriend issues - I can't help you, but there are more fish in the sea. When you've gotten your angst under control, come back and let me know if my next update soothes the pain.
lostatlimbo wrote:I know I've gone astray when the guy who created Supermax: Colored Button Riot! tells me I have too many icons.
danfrank wrote:Just look at what they did to joe the plumber and Miss california...
lostatlimbo wrote:11th Draft update:
[list][*]Added 4 new territories (N Bike Lane, NE Bike Lane, SE Bike Lane, Forest Park Bike Lane) in place of former Bike bonuses. These territories start 6 neutral.
Now that there are less of these and they are separate (and neutral) territories, I think its okay to have them attack each other. I like the idea of them being a way to move around the map. Neutral armies prevent them from being as detrimental as before and I've upped the bonus to 8 since it will be harder to capture and keep them.
lostatlimbo wrote:Should I add 2 more territories some where for an even 48?
lostatlimbo wrote:#5 Max stop unchanged. Downtown can be defended with 4 territories either way.
iancanton wrote:6 starting neutrals simply means that no-one will attack the bike lanes, so they'll be useless as a method of transport.
iancanton wrote:the downtown bonus needs defenders on all 6 regions, since #5 max can attack both pioneer and goose hollow. if u delete the pioneer exit and change the goose hollow one so it goes to nob hill instead, then downtown will have only 4 border regions (but it also splits downtown in half, with no easy way to go between the two).
DJ Teflon wrote:Latest Changes
On your latest update you mention bonus changes - however, they seem the same as previously in the update.
Number of Territories
As far as I can see, you have 48, with 4 starting neutral (the bikes) - 44 starting territories - this is a great number for gameplay purposes as ian mentioned above.
I'm wondering if you will still have the same problem with killer neutrals, as opposed to the large-ish (6) neutrals you had before.
Players will often go through one killer neutral territory to reach an opponent (and hit their bonus etc) but I imagine it would be extremely rare for players to lose troops going through two killer neutral territories. I can see your aim here - you want the bike routes to be an alternative, but difficult attack route. Perhaps you could have 'decay' on the bikes instead (i.e. they lose 1 army per round rather than resetting to neutral)? It may also be worth considering why the bike lanes would have decay - you may need to explain this in the key (e.g. they are too narrow for military operations).
My reading of the bonus key (and probably most players' reading) is that only one player could hold metro bonus(es) due to the central junction being required by all. Just thought I'd double-check. This would make the central territory a key position, although it may deter many players from trying to secure a metro bonus. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with that, just food for thought when thinking through how games may develop.
DJ Teflon wrote:The main thing is that the bike routes are a viable option which players will use (like Naval Superiority in Eastern Hemisphere as you say) - this makes the 4 areas they are in more difficult to hold. When bonus values are fine-tuned, it is important that the routes are viable.
iancanton wrote:is there any need to have the -1 negative bonus for holding the max transit center? since the negative bonus is now operational only when a max bonus is held, it no longer seems to have much effect on anything and looks gimmicky. however, increasing the max bonuses, which are awkward to hold, to their current level is certainly a good move.
iancanton wrote:as dj says, if u want to avoid fixed starting neutrals, then the yellow max line will need to be coded as start positions to reduce the incidence of unfair starts. i think this can be best achieved by pairing each of the three yellow stations with one of the southwest regions to create 3 sets of 2 start positions. in a 1v1 game, only 2 of the sets of 2 will serve as start positions, while the regions in the third set will be allocated in the normal way along with the ordinary regions and stations.
iancanton wrote:might portland: rose city be a good title for the purposes of the gamefinder's drop-down list?
DJ Teflon wrote:Fareless Square
Just an idea worth contemplating - to make this territory difficult to hold then why not have decay as opposed to an overall -1 bonus? You could have decay of -1 or -2 perhaps? It would mean players would find it hard to hold the bonus(es) for more than one round, which could make for interesting gameplay (e.g. players go for the bonus just before a big assault to try and win the game).
lostatlimbo wrote:iancanton wrote:the downtown bonus needs defenders on all 6 regions, since #5 max can attack both pioneer and goose hollow. if u delete the pioneer exit and change the goose hollow one so it goes to nob hill instead, then downtown will have only 4 border regions (but it also splits downtown in half, with no easy way to go between the two).
I'm afraid you are wrong here. To defend downtown, you only need to place troops on Nob Hill, The Pearl, PSU and Max Stop #5. This makes it somewhat comparable to SE, in that you'd need to hold 7 territories, but only defend 4. They both have a bonus of +5.
lostatlimbo wrote:it does appear that the bike lanes invalidate the changes i made to make bonuses easier to hold. even with +4 to get through each attack, it makes for difficult defense as the game progresses. next update, i will try moving the bike lanes to only touch one or two territories. (primarily removing it from Hawthorne, Alberta Arts & University).
lostatlimbo wrote:does the XML allow for an auto decay only when a particular bonus or set of bonuses are held?
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