Gilgamesh; Coordinates on pg 20

[oaktown]

If the object is to make it look like an old map, (which is cool) I would just go ahead and loose the tiles. pick one or the other. If it were to be written 2,000 years ago on some scroll or something, it would NOT have included tiles. That may be an idea to try, make it an authentic looking scroll.

Ah, so starting over is your idea? Hmm... and .

I'm keeping the tiles. I will make it look as authentic and as eye-friendly as I can. It won't look exactly like an old wall because I'm just not that talented, and if i was I would have made it perfect already. Now, everybody, if you have a specific comment about a visual concern I'd be happy to read it, otherwise go spam somebody else's thread.

[porkenbeans]

If the object is to make it look like an old map, (which is cool) I would just go ahead and loose the tiles. pick one or the other. If it were to be written 2,000 years ago on some scroll or something, it would NOT have included tiles. That may be an idea to try, make it an authentic looking scroll.

Ah, so starting over is your idea? Hmm... and .

I'm keeping the tiles. I will make it look as authentic and as eye-friendly as I can. It won't look exactly like an old wall because I'm just not that talented, and if i was I would have made it perfect already. Now, everybody, if you have a specific comment about a visual concern I'd be happy to read it, otherwise go spam somebody else's thread.

Hey Oak,
I have not been around for all the development of your map. Maybe you guys should think about sending out the pms' for reviews a little earlier. I understand the frustration you must feel. After working so long and hard, to have us come in here and throw around all the suggs.
You must also be aware that, it is frustrating as well for me, when all I am doing is what the foundry process dictates. Calling me a spammer is not very kind, when all I have said is my honest opinion. You can take it with a grain of salt, and move forward. I would offer you a small bit of advice, "new eyes" can be beneficial if you know just how to use them properly.
Like I said, You guys should really think about fixing this foundry process. This is not the first time that I have been dissed for coming and giving my opinion when asked to do so.

[Incandenza]

I have not been around for all the development of your map. Maybe you guys should think about sending out the pms' for reviews a little earlier. I understand the frustration you must feel. After working so long and hard, to have us come in here and throw around all the suggs.
You must also be aware that, it is frustrating as well for me, when all I am doing is what the foundry process dictates. Calling me a spammer is not very kind, when all I have said is my honest opinion. You can take it with a grain of salt, and move forward. I would offer you a small bit of advice, "new eyes" can be beneficial if you know just how to use them properly.
Like I said, You guys should really think about fixing this foundry process. This is not the first time that I have been dissed for coming and giving my opinion when asked to do so.

I think that's an unfair assessment. Here's the thing: it's not like you're pointing out a flaw in the map, a gameplay issue or an unclear border. Instead you're saying "here's how I think the map should look." How is a mapmaker supposed to respond to something like that? The community, over some months, has expressed satisfaction with oak's visuals, and you expect to overturn the community's satisfaction without some resistance? If you'd like to make a legitimate point that the visuals could be substantially improved, you're welcome to do so, but brandishing that lion photo, along with the alteration that you spent 20 minutes whipping up, is not going to be enough. At this stage of the process, your suggestions need to be really badass and well-documented, for 'tis harder to dam up the delta of a river than its headwaters.

More to the point, I encourage you to not wait for a PM, but to just find maps that interest you and make suggestions. You'll find being a part of the community's thorough looking-over of a given map is more rewarding that trying to (at least somewhat) refute it. You're clearly a smart guy, and we could use more bright fellows around these parts... not because we don't have a bunch already but because a community like this is lost without strong new voices.

[porkenbeans]

@incan,
I wish that I had the time to keep up on all the projects going on at the foundry. But I have given up on trying to make maps. Not that I am disinterested, Its just that I have moved on to explore the world of graphic design. I have learned much, in the short time since leaving map making. The only reason that you are hearing from me now, is because I am on the review list, and just responding to the pm.
After further thought on the review structure, I believe that it IS set up correctly, if not implemented so. You see it is like I stated before about the "new eyes". It can be very beneficial to have people come in that have not seen the project before, to give their opinions. They have no prejudice or "peanut gallery" views, and they have not been hypnotized by staring at it for weeks or months.
Foundry officials and mapmakers as well, should be more kind to these critics, as they serve a valuable service to the foundry. In other words, do NOT take the criticism personally. And do not tell them that they should have spoken up sooner. That is NOT their job. They are NOT spammers, and you loose the value that they bring, when you chide them and Critique their critique. If something is said that you disagree with, Oh well, everybody's got an opinion, move on. Just keep your mind open, and take what you can from those "new eyes".

[Incandenza]

Then we've found common ground, as like you I've never made a map. I just like hanging out here, since maps have fascinated me since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. I know that my particular map fetish is not shared by all, nor do many people have the time to comment intelligently on maps in progress. But honestly, if you have the time and inclination to provide fresh eyes at this stage of the process, you'd be having a more positive impact by applying said time and inclination to maps that aren't quite as far down the pipeline.

One of the ways I really got into the foundry was to essentially adopt a map, a map where my gameplay desires and personal interest happened to collide. T'was Berlin, and I stuck with that map throughout production. It was actually pretty cool, and it's a great way to, for lack of a better way of putting it, up your foundry cred.

[oaktown]

the next person to post in this thread without mentioning the map - or mentioning this map in passing while really discussing your feelings about each other/the Foundry - is going on my foe list, so I will never have to see your posts again. Seriously. I have asked nicely that you all stop it. Now it's mean Oaktown.

There are some very spirited discussions about Foundry process in Not Maps... if you guys want to continue your discussion I would appreciate it if you could take it there.

[AndyDufresne]

For the new Page.

Click image to enlarge.

I mentioned I didn't quite like how the brick division lines stood out so much now---perhaps it's because there is a strange clash between the idea of making it look old and weathered, while the actual mortar in the wall looks quite pristine, smooth, perfectly level, etc. So if you are interested in sticking with an image version where they stand out a little more than in previous versions, that would be something to consider---some how dirty up the lines a little.

But in any case, all that discussion is relatively minor, and I am very satisified with the map. Good work,


--Andy

[owenshooter]

They've been there for a few weeks... they represent nothing in terms of gameplay, but anybody familiar with the epic might appreciate them.

i appreciate them... and the map is just beautiful... i think you should leave it as is...-0

[saaimen]

I mentioned I didn't quite like how the brick division lines stood out so much now---perhaps it's because there is a strange clash between the idea of making it look old and weathered, while the actual mortar in the wall looks quite pristine, smooth, perfectly level, etc. So if you are interested in sticking with an image version where they stand out a little more than in previous versions, that would be something to consider---some how dirty up the lines a little.

But in any case, all that discussion is relatively minor, and I am very satisified with the map.

Agreed 100%.
You have a lot of 'veins' on the tiles/bricks (what are they really ?), a lot of crackling on their surface. Yet the seems/joints (which is correct?) are quite sterile.

But as I've said 100%: beautiful map

[porkenbeans]

@Oak,
I never went off topic, only responded to your "off topic" remarks.
You should not let constructive criticism upset you so much. It is ok to disagree, but you should unbunch your panties. Just kidding, c'mon Oak lighten up friend. Do I need to say once more that I think this map is cool ? ... well it IS. Just relax and take deep breaths, You would think with all the quenches under your belt, that you would be a bit more used to this process by now.
Not me or anyone else can MAKE you change a damn thing on your map, so just let the the unjustified critique roll off, like water on a ducks back. it wont penetrate unless you ruffle up your feathers.
...oh, and have FUN !!!

[porkenbeans]

I mentioned I didn't quite like how the brick division lines stood out so much now---perhaps it's because there is a strange clash between the idea of making it look old and weathered, while the actual mortar in the wall looks quite pristine, smooth, perfectly level, etc. So if you are interested in sticking with an image version where they stand out a little more than in previous versions, that would be something to consider---some how dirty up the lines a little.

But in any case, all that discussion is relatively minor, and I am very satisified with the map.

Agreed 100%.
You have a lot of 'veins' on the tiles/bricks (what are they really ?), a lot of crackling on their surface. Yet the seems/joints (which is correct?) are quite sterile.

But as I've said 100%: beautiful map

Yep, The grout lines are to uniform, and show no depth as tiles do. Tiles when they are set into place are not all exactly the same as in orientation to each other. Also the tiles are not all set perfectly flat and will show variant light reflections as a result. Like I suggested before, If you are not going to make it look like real tiles v old paper. then just loose them. They look like a tile pattern drawn on paper. And that is something that would never have been done on an old map. Sorry,but I stand behind the idea of picking one or the other. ...Either way would look cool.

[oaktown]

@Oak,
I never went off topic, only responded to your "off topic" remarks.
You should not let constructive criticism upset you so much. It is ok to disagree, but you should unbunch your panties. Just kidding, c'mon Oak lighten up friend. Do I need to say once more that I think this map is cool ? ... well it IS. Just relax and take deep breaths, You would think with all the quenches under your belt, that you would be a bit more used to this process by now.
Not me or anyone else can MAKE you change a damn thing on your map, so just let the the unjustified critique roll off, like water on a ducks back. it wont penetrate unless you ruffle up your feathers.
...oh, and have FUN !!!

No mention of the map. Foed.

the next person to post in this thread without mentioning the map - or mentioning this map in passing while really discussing your feelings about each other/the Foundry - is going on my foe list, so I will never have to see your posts again.

[porkenbeans]

@Oak,
I never went off topic, only responded to your "off topic" remarks.
You should not let constructive criticism upset you so much. It is ok to disagree, but you should unbunch your panties. Just kidding, c'mon Oak lighten up friend. Do I need to say once more that I think this map is cool ? ... well it IS. Just relax and take deep breaths, You would think with all the quenches under your belt, that you would be a bit more used to this process by now.
Not me or anyone else can MAKE you change a damn thing on your map, so just let the the unjustified critique roll off, like water on a ducks back. it wont penetrate unless you ruffle up your feathers.
...oh, and have FUN !!!

No mention of the map. Foed.

the next person to post in this thread without mentioning the map - or mentioning this map in passing while really discussing your feelings about each other/the Foundry - is going on my foe list, so I will never have to see your posts again.

My comments are indeed about the map.
Foed ? how is that about the map ?
You can hide your head in the sand if you want, My comments have all been about this map, you have derailed it with your temper tantrums about my critiques of it. GROW UP .

[Echospree]

While making the tiles and grouting less even would be more accurate in terms of making the map look more like a tiled wall, I'm worried it'll make the map look TOO busy, and detract from the other features of the map. Namely, the game you happen to be trying to play on top of it.

[porkenbeans]

While making the tiles and grouting less even would be more accurate in terms of making the map look more like a tiled wall, I'm worried it'll make the map look TOO busy, and detract from the other features of the map. Namely, the game you happen to be trying to play on top of it.

Yes, I agree. That is the problem with trying to have it both ways. pick one or the other. Is it a tile wall, or an old faded map ?

[Echospree]

While making the tiles and grouting less even would be more accurate in terms of making the map look more like a tiled wall, I'm worried it'll make the map look TOO busy, and detract from the other features of the map. Namely, the game you happen to be trying to play on top of it.

Yes, I agree. That is the problem with trying to have it both ways. pick one or the other. Is it a tile wall, or an old faded map ?

The latest version is my favourite version, for the moment. Just enough details on the tiles to make you aware of them, yet able to completely ignore them to concentrate on the map aspect.

[Incandenza]

Now it's mean Oaktown.

I'd say the current coloration is a fair compromise. We could sit and nitpick and speculate, but IMHO this map would make a fine addition to the site right this very second. So let's get this sucker into the forge.

[Danyael]

I'd say the current coloration is a fair compromise. We could sit and nitpick and speculate, but IMHO this map would make a fine addition to the site right this very second. So let's get this sucker into the forge.

i agree

i think theres only one way to make the it better on the bricks but its as exhausting as laying real brick
i have a method you would not find filter for called glow mortaring its effect can be great with the right execution

to this

if interested on how to do this let me know and i`ll right up a tut for you
the best part using a glow mortar its easy to change the mortar opacity on each brick as well as add a bevel too each brick

[oaktown]

Click image to enlarge.

At this point I know I could spend a few hours a day for the next six months making changes on this map, but at some point I need to draw the line. Folks seemed comfortable with the last version, but I made some changes anyway. I've increased the sense of a light source, both by adding a glow to the top left corner and increasing the bevel on the bricks to give them a little more contour for the light to hit. Colors have changed slightly - a bit more muted than the last effort perhaps.

At this point I'm not looking for any major suggestions as to how to add an effect here or more realistic cracks there. Just tell me if something isn't readable. I can already see that "Canaan" is hard to read in the legend, and I'll make that change.

Also included below is a small version, including a single army count up at the top to demonstrate how numbers will look against the army smudges.

Click image to enlarge.

[Danyael]

only name i have trouble with ANSHAN but only on the small map
final forge it

[oaktown]

only name i have trouble with ANSHAN but only on the small map
final forge it

good catch - I'll flip the positions of the title and army count to get the title out the crack.

[MrBenn]

I'm not a fan of the extra bevel; but I'm not going to push for change....

If you're happy with it, then I'm happy with it.

[porkenbeans]

Well it looks like you went with my suggestion after all. By me posting that over saturated example up, you have compromised, to just about where I was hoping.
I think that it is much nicer than before, aren't you glad that I stopped by ?
Just funnin with ya bro.
I will offer just one more sugg for ya, (oh boy) If you are worried about the territories borders getting lost amongst the grout lines, just go ahead and throw a bevel and or drop shadow on them. This by the way, will also help to bring a little "relief" to the map as well, like the lion picture.

[saaimen]

porkenbeans,
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but...
oaktown foed you. He's not reading your posts.

[oaktown]

porkenbeans,
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but...
oaktown foed you. He's not reading your posts.

No mention of the map... you'll be next saaimen!