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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Gilligan on Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:55 pm

Finally... A map with Rhode Island! :lol: ;)

Nice job :)
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:33 am

Congrats Helix! =D>
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] Beta Thirsty p.33

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:50 am

MrBenn wrote:
          Beta - Quenching

---The Final Forge period has concluded for the 13 Colonies Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Beta Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for BETA Play. After an extended period of time in BETA and once all quirks and issues have been resolved, the map will be put into Full Play (barring any Lack vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

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Congrats IH, Well done! =D> =D> =D> Now we just have to wait for Lack to upload the files!
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:00 pm

It's up!!! :D :D

I'm so excited!!

And tomorrow it would be 1 year exactly... some b-day present :)
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby ViperOverLord on Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:19 pm

This map frustrates me. It is not programmed correctly or it does not explain things right. I have 16 regions for 5 troops. I also have Massachusetts and RI (2 Colonies) but it is not saying I should get the 3 bonus deployment for that. WTF?(I have Boston ship for good measures).
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:31 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:This map frustrates me. It is not programmed correctly or it does not explain things right. I have 16 regions for 5 troops. I also have Massachusetts and RI (2 Colonies) but it is not saying I should get the 3 bonus deployment for that. WTF?(I have Boston ship for good measures).


If you're referring to this game Game 6505886 you don't have the whole massachusetts. ;)
Massachusetts Bay is neutral, so you don't have 2 colonies.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby ViperOverLord on Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:36 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:This map frustrates me. It is not programmed correctly or it does not explain things right. I have 16 regions for 5 troops. I also have Massachusetts and RI (2 Colonies) but it is not saying I should get the 3 bonus deployment for that. WTF?(I have Boston ship for good measures).


If you're referring to this game Game 6505886 you don't have the whole massachusetts. ;)
Massachusetts Bay is neutral, so you don't have 2 colonies.


OK it was hard to see that Maine was part of MS. Perhaps you should consider 13 different color tones or listing names with Colony abbreviations like MS.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:30 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:This map frustrates me. It is not programmed correctly or it does not explain things right. I have 16 regions for 5 troops. I also have Massachusetts and RI (2 Colonies) but it is not saying I should get the 3 bonus deployment for that. WTF?(I have Boston ship for good measures).


If you're referring to this game Game 6505886 you don't have the whole massachusetts. ;)
Massachusetts Bay is neutral, so you don't have 2 colonies.


OK it was hard to see that Maine was part of MS. Perhaps you should consider 13 different color tones or listing names with Colony abbreviations like MS.


Well, i figured something like this would come up once beta started. Did you look at the minimap or just presume Massachusetts was the modern Massachusetts? I'm not trying to be smart or condemning, but I'd like to know if there really is a lack of clarity in the minimap or people just have the widespread assumption the Massachusetts is the modern Massachusetts.

I'm not having 13 color tones, it would totally break with the graphical aims I was going for.

What do you mean by listing names with colony abbreviations?
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby bigpete007 on Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:46 pm

I've held all ships and all landing points/nearest colonies and not received the bonuses I should have done.

Unless of course I've missed some glaringly obvious mistakes!

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=6494025
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby ViperOverLord on Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:39 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:This map frustrates me. It is not programmed correctly or it does not explain things right. I have 16 regions for 5 troops. I also have Massachusetts and RI (2 Colonies) but it is not saying I should get the 3 bonus deployment for that. WTF?(I have Boston ship for good measures).


If you're referring to this game Game 6505886 you don't have the whole massachusetts. ;)
Massachusetts Bay is neutral, so you don't have 2 colonies.


OK it was hard to see that Maine was part of MS. Perhaps you should consider 13 different color tones or listing names with Colony abbreviations like MS.


Well, i figured something like this would come up once beta started. Did you look at the minimap or just presume Massachusetts was the modern Massachusetts? I'm not trying to be smart or condemning, but I'd like to know if there really is a lack of clarity in the minimap or people just have the widespread assumption the Massachusetts is the modern Massachusetts.

I'm not having 13 color tones, it would totally break with the graphical aims I was going for.

What do you mean by listing names with colony abbreviations?


I looked at the map to see what the colonies were. I even counted 13 including Maine. So that made it hard to detect the mistake. I think it was just a quick count and I overlooked Deleware or something. The map itself has Mass. listed and then a line pointing to Maine. I don't know if historically Maine is even part of Mass but if so, I don't think most of us realize that.

I also read the letter to see if I missed anything and I learned about the ships/Indian bonuses/workings. But that did not help with my colony question before I posted.

I think I figured from there maybe mistakes were made in the map's clarity or programming and I was just frustrated from there. The colony bonuses stopped at 8 which I did not get since there are obviously 13. I think it should at least be listed as 8+ so users aren't wondering what happened to bonuses for the other 5 colonies.

I played the map 3 or 4 times on fog and lost because in part that Mass confusion made it hard for me to figure out if the bonuses were at all like I was reading them. It was during my 2nd game on sunny (a game I was finally winning) that I was overlooking the Mass dynamic that I got frustrated and posted here.

Is it hard once a person knows? No. But I think a significant percent of players will overlook that. And with 120 plus maps players are often playing a map for the first time and that can be very frustrating for a player to lose and wonder what happened and then decide to just stay away from a map because he/she cannot figure out whats up. They may not want to lose 4 or 5 times like I did trying to figure it out.

Obviously, once a player knows what's what (like I do now) then its not a big deal. But I think it should be easier for players to comprehend rather than like a riddle of sorts.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby ViperOverLord on Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:45 pm

bigpete007 wrote:I've held all ships and all landing points/nearest colonies and not received the bonuses I should have done.

Unless of course I've missed some glaringly obvious mistakes!

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=6494025


You have to hold the full colony next to it French. British ships must be accompanied by both landing points. My guess is you are overlooking that w/o looking at your game.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:00 am

ViperOverLord wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:This map frustrates me. It is not programmed correctly or it does not explain things right. I have 16 regions for 5 troops. I also have Massachusetts and RI (2 Colonies) but it is not saying I should get the 3 bonus deployment for that. WTF?(I have Boston ship for good measures).


If you're referring to this game Game 6505886 you don't have the whole massachusetts. ;)
Massachusetts Bay is neutral, so you don't have 2 colonies.


OK it was hard to see that Maine was part of MS. Perhaps you should consider 13 different color tones or listing names with Colony abbreviations like MS.


Well, i figured something like this would come up once beta started. Did you look at the minimap or just presume Massachusetts was the modern Massachusetts? I'm not trying to be smart or condemning, but I'd like to know if there really is a lack of clarity in the minimap or people just have the widespread assumption the Massachusetts is the modern Massachusetts.

I'm not having 13 color tones, it would totally break with the graphical aims I was going for.

What do you mean by listing names with colony abbreviations?


I looked at the map to see what the colonies were. I even counted 13 including Maine. So that made it hard to detect the mistake. I think it was just a quick count and I overlooked Deleware or something. The map itself has Mass. listed and then a line pointing to Maine. I don't know if historically Maine is even part of Mass but if so, I don't think most of us realize that.

I also read the letter to see if I missed anything and I learned about the ships/Indian bonuses/workings. But that did not help with my colony question before I posted.

I think I figured from there maybe mistakes were made in the map's clarity or programming and I was just frustrated from there. The colony bonuses stopped at 8 which I did not get since there are obviously 13. I think it should at least be listed as 8+ so users aren't wondering what happened to bonuses for the other 5 colonies.

I played the map 3 or 4 times on fog and lost because in part that Mass confusion made it hard for me to figure out if the bonuses were at all like I was reading them. It was during my 2nd game on sunny (a game I was finally winning) that I was overlooking the Mass dynamic that I got frustrated and posted here.

Is it hard once a person knows? No. But I think a significant percent of players will overlook that. And with 120 plus maps players are often playing a map for the first time and that can be very frustrating for a player to lose and wonder what happened and then decide to just stay away from a map because he/she cannot figure out whats up. They may not want to lose 4 or 5 times like I did trying to figure it out.

Obviously, once a player knows what's what (like I do now) then its not a big deal. But I think it should be easier for players to comprehend rather than like a riddle of sorts.


I see what you mean... I'm going to try to figure out a better way of showing that Massachusetts and Maine are one, as they historically were. In earlier versions, there was a little note somewhere mentioning that Maine and Massachusetts were the same... should I bring it back?

bigpete007 wrote:I've held all ships and all landing points/nearest colonies and not received the bonuses I should have done.

Unless of course I've missed some glaringly obvious mistakes!

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=6494025


The ships/landing points bonus is for British Ships and their landing points. The French ships, on the other hand, require holding the ship and the nearest colony. So you're getting the bonus for Brit/landing points but not for the French Ships. French ships would be holding Tybee Roads and all of Georgia or Chesapeake Bay and all of Virginia.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:41 am

Just noticed this: on the minimap, the colony names seem to be tilted at slightly different angles... it's most noticeable between Maryland & Virginia. Is there a reason for this, if not I think it'd look better if they were all in the same angle.

Just a minor nitpick, but hey... that's what beta is for, eh? ;)
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:45 pm

natty_dread wrote:Just noticed this: on the minimap, the colony names seem to be tilted at slightly different angles... it's most noticeable between Maryland & Virginia. Is there a reason for this, if not I think it'd look better if they were all in the same angle.

Just a minor nitpick, but hey... that's what beta is for, eh? ;)


Yeah, I tilted them because the little piece of paper they are on is tilted, so they match as if the colonies were printed on that piece of paper. Or at least I think that's what you're seeing.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:04 pm

No, I mean that Virginia and Maryland are on different tilts relative to each other. Some other colony names too, mostly the ones on the right.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby bigpete007 on Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:23 pm

Cheers for the help guys.

I misread colony for territory.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby jefjef on Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:34 pm

Glad to see beta! =D> =D> =D>

U owe me a game IH.

BTW. From what I have reviewed you may want to consider upping the Tybee roads French ship to 4 neutral. (It is easier to defend) That bonus seems to be the game in 1 v 1 anyway. Being dropped on those landing terts are sweet.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:16 pm

natty_dread wrote:No, I mean that Virginia and Maryland are on different tilts relative to each other. Some other colony names too, mostly the ones on the right.


Ah I see... you mean the words "Virginia" and "Maryland" and not the colonies Virginia and Maryland. Yeah... hmm... I tilted the thing as a whole, I'll see what I can do about it.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:00 pm

jefjef wrote:Glad to see beta! =D> =D> =D>

U owe me a game IH.

BTW. From what I have reviewed you may want to consider upping the Tybee roads French ship to 4 neutral. (It is easier to defend) That bonus seems to be the game in 1 v 1 anyway. Being dropped on those landing terts are sweet.



I'd rather not put in a starting neutral... I really hate those in maps.

But I am receptive to lowing the bonus for Georgia/Tybee Roads. In the games that I have played, that is the bonus most gone after and pays out the most for the effort required to get it.

@Natty - I changed the words so they all tilt together and along the same lines as the borders. Instead of making a number of graphical changes, I'm going to hold off a while in case any more come up and make one new upload altogether.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby natty dread on Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:02 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:
@Natty - I changed the words so they all tilt together and along the same lines as the borders. Instead of making a number of graphical changes, I'm going to hold off a while in case any more come up and make one new upload altogether.


Yeah ok, it wasn't a huge issue anyway, just a minor nitpick. So by all means wait if you get some more changes to do before sending for an update... thanks for fixing it though, you know I'm a perfectionist with these things... if something is 2 pixels in the wrong direction it can bother me immensely ;)
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby iancanton on Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:19 am

Industrial Helix wrote:
bigpete007 wrote:I've held all ships and all landing points/nearest colonies and not received the bonuses I should have done.

Unless of course I've missed some glaringly obvious mistakes!

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=6494025

The ships/landing points bonus is for British Ships and their landing points. The French ships, on the other hand, require holding the ship and the nearest colony. So you're getting the bonus for Brit/landing points but not for the French Ships. French ships would be holding Tybee Roads and all of Georgia or Chesapeake Bay and all of Virginia.

bigpete007 wrote:Cheers for the help guys.

I misread colony for territory.

will it help to re-word the bonus so that it says hold a french ship and all of the nearest colony?

ian. :)
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby waiting4oct on Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:59 am

I'd like to nit a minor historical pick. As a native Northern New Jerseyite, Fort Lee wasn't really called Fort Lee until the 20th century. In the revolution, Fort Lee was simply General Lee's encampment on the NJ side of the river, as Fort Washington was Washington's encampment on the NY side. And that was in late 1776, after the declaration.

Anyhow... feel free to ignore me, but Bergen is probably a more appropriate name.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:26 pm

waiting4oct wrote:I'd like to nit a minor historical pick. As a native Northern New Jerseyite, Fort Lee wasn't really called Fort Lee until the 20th century. In the revolution, Fort Lee was simply General Lee's encampment on the NJ side of the river, as Fort Washington was Washington's encampment on the NY side. And that was in late 1776, after the declaration.

Anyhow... feel free to ignore me, but Bergen is probably a more appropriate name.


Well I'll be... historical nitpicks are crucial to a historical map, so I'm down to change it. Thanks for giving me a more appropriate name to replace it with and saving me the trouble.

The latest image includes Natty's and Ian's suggestions.

http://h1.ripway.com/industhelix/final.xml

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:31 pm

The minimap colony names look fine on the large map, but they still look odd on the small map...

Compare Delaware vs New Jersey & Maryland, Massachusets & New Hampshire vs New York...
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Re: 13 Colonies [D, Gp, Gr, X,] BETA

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:12 pm

natty_dread wrote:The minimap colony names look fine on the large map, but they still look odd on the small map...

Compare Delaware vs New Jersey & Maryland, Massachusets & New Hampshire vs New York...

Yeah I see it, plus they're tilted a little too strongly for the paper its on.
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