Conquer Club

kingwaffles wrote:I think having something like that is a pretty cool idea, but I see Marv's point about the unfairness of it. Maybe you could split it into the twin cites Ankh and Morpork. That way you could have the bonus but it might not neccesarily be given to the player who had the best luck starting. Do you think that woud mess with the balance too much?

I agree. if the bonus city was divided up into two "countries" and you had to hold both in order to get the bonus, then it would be less of an unfai starting advantage.

That sounds like a great idea. The only problem I see (aside from my needing to legibly fit two nations into that area of the map) is that it'll make 41 countries total, a prime number. That means that any game with this map will necessarily have at least one neutral country.

Maybe assimilate Purdeigh Island into Terror Incognita? That would give you an even number.

How about split The Hub, or Trollbane Mountains? The second option is better, I think.

Marvaddin wrote:The second option is better, I think.

Well, that goes without saying, otherwise you wouldn't have posted it.

As I look it over, I'm starting to think that the Unnamed Continent might have too high a ratio of border countries anyway (6/8 even after Ankh-Morpork is split), so I'm going to add a country to the eastern part of that region somewhere. I'll boost its point value by one as well. 6/9 is still kinda high, but owning that continent will give you the AM bonus as well, so I think that's fair. I agree that Trollbane looks like it's probably a good place to break a chunk off of; I'll look at the map more closely and see.

I'm not sure if this is possible, (because I really have no idea how the technical bits of this online risk work), but maybe you could have Ankh-Morpork still confer the +1 bonus, but make it always start as controlled by a neutral player. This would mean making sure that there is a prime number of countries including Ankh-Morpork, so one of the larger countries could be split, as some of you have already suggested.

Yeah, I was thinking something along those lines too, but I just don't know how easy that would be to do or if its even possible...

Incredible!! I was thinking about this, too. Im thinking about a phantasy map with portals that can attack to everywhere... But its a very good feature to one player starts with, so I was thinking about this... Is it possible?

Well I think it's a cool idea, the programming isn't in place though. Jota suggested having "scenarios" (see Mission Cards?) where the author defines starting positions in the xml for the map. So you could make a "scenario" for this map where Ankh-Morpork starts off neutral. This is something that would of course have to be prioritized with all the other improvements so don't expect to see it soon.

Well, after an exchange of email with Mr. Pratchett, I've removed the original map from the image. It doesn't look as snazzy, but it puts us all on much more comfortable legal ground.

I've tweaked some borders a bit, particularly in Unnamed, and adjusted the bonuses appropriately. I also decided to move the circles off of all the small islands, since it was pointed out to me that once the numbers were added, the islands themselves would sorta disappear underneath them (at least in the small version, anyway).

Available in large and small versions.

Well I am glad the legal issues have been hammered out. The map still looks pretty nice graphics wise, and rather playable.

--Andy

It looks good...
Trollbane Mountains have no circle to place number of armies... The legend colours arent good to Rim Islands (cyan on legend, but green on map) and XXXX (red on legend but orange on map). Plus, what a sucking name this "XXXX". Is it possible rename the continent? Another background out of the disc would be good too. Isnt your large version a bit larger than it should be?

Put continent by continent analysis here, and I will comment. Dont forgot, for each continent: # countries, # border countries, # of attack routes from other places.

I realized already that are no medium continents, and I think its a great error. The dispersion of countries is 4, 5, 5, 9, 9, 10. And, there are no continents connected to more than other 3 continents. In fact, only Hublands and Aurient are connected to 3 continents, the others only 2. Its a pretty linear map.

Marvaddin wrote:Plus, what a sucking name this "XXXX". Is it possible rename the continent?

Well, I suppose I could switch it around: call the continent Fourecks and the country XXXX (in the source material, "Fourecks", "XXXX", and "Terror Incognita" were pretty much all terms for the same general area). I had personally thought that "XXXX" worked rather well as the continent; what do other people think?

Marvaddin wrote:Isnt your large version a bit larger than it should be?

The images are 500x500 and 700x700, respectively. Lack's post on map-making says:

lackattack wrote:You have to design two versions of the map, small (up to 600 px wide) and large (up to 800 px wide). Height is flexible, but I recommend that you do not exceed 350 px on small maps and 600 px on large maps so that users will not need to scroll down to attack.

So they're both within the limits for width, but both exceed the recommendations for height. Unfortunately, there's not much I can do about the aspect ratio. I tried to compromise with my dimensions, because I think that at 350x350 the map would be very hard to read.

Marvaddin wrote:Put continent by continent analysis here, and I will comment. Dont forgot, for each continent: # countries, # border countries, # of attack routes from other places.

I can give you the statistics if you like, although I'd have thought they'd be apparent from the map itself:

• The Aurient: 5 countries, 3 borders, 3 routes in
• XXXX: 4 countries, 2 borders, 2 routes in
• Rim Islands: 5 countries, 2 borders, 2 routes in
• Hublands: 9 countries, 4 borders, 5 routes in
• Unnamed: 9 countries, 5 borders, 8 routes in
• Klatch: 10 countries, 5 borders, 6 routes in

I generally aimed for A) about 50% of a continent's countries being borders, and B) bonuses equal to about 50% of the number of countries. For most cases, that led to bonuses being equal to the number of borders. For the Unnamed continent, the bonus is actually effectively one higher (for the Ankh-Morpork bonus); I feel this is justified because of the large number of attack routes in.

Marvaddin wrote:I realized already that are no medium continents, and I think its a great error.

Originally, the Unnamed continent was fairly medium, but it was expanded to give it a better proportion of border to non-border countries. If there's general agreement that there's an issue here, I could declare the larger rimward island that I currently have as part of the Brown Islands as its own separate entity, so long as I can find a suitable Discworld island that isn't already indicated to be someplace else (it was originally unlabeled on the official map). This would also justify adding another sea route, probably between Mithos and the Caderack Mountains (making the map less linear), and boosting its value up to 3.

Another place I might be able to make a continent more medium is in the Agatean Empire. I could separate Bhangbhangduc out of the archipelago (it's the first, largest island, IIRC), although it might be a bit crowded there if I did. Alternately, I might be able to split a district off of Hunghung (I'd need to look more closely at the original to see if there's anything significant there to work with).

Do other folks agree with Marvaddin, or should I keep those things the way they are?

Is this map still being worked on, or has it been lost in the shuffle?

--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:Is this map still being worked on, or has it been lost in the shuffle?

I'm still working on it, but I took a little time off to write a couple of programs to make the XML writing and debugging a little easier. I'm also talking with another player about maybe having some original artwork to decorate the map with, to replace the copyrighted material.

Additionally, I'd been hoping to see the responses to my previous post before I made a "final" version, but I guess that hasn't happened.

Since you wanted some feedback...I will do my best!


---XXXX I think is a workable name of a continent. I'm afraid some people will think you just couldn't think of a name, so perhaps one of the other names for the general area might be more in line.

---I'm not sure necessarily that you not having any midsized continents is a bad thing. I foresee tough battles for those smaller continents, and I feel that those who don't get them early will be left out in the rain to fend for the larger, nearly uninhabitable continents with a large amount of people in the game (obviously with a lesser number it wouldn't be so bad, easier to control if you started off with more). But perhaps some sort of Medium continent would be beneficial, if possible to do.

---Sometime I would like to see a new post of the map with all the new artwork and design elements. Hopefully I can comment more then.

~~~~


--Andy

At long last, I've finally got the new (and hopefully final) version of the map ready: large and small.

It's now been decorated with some very nice artwork contributed by maga. Mechanically, the only differences I made that I can recall are in the Rim Islands, where I added a nation (Gorunna) and a border (Brown Islands to Wyrmberg) and increased the continent bonus from 2 to 3. That brings it up to 44 countries total, if I count correctly. I also changed the colors around a little and made some other minor cosmetic changes (like fixing a couple misspellings).

If there are no significant issues presented in the next day or two, I'll be submitting this one to lack.

Lets see...

---I'm liking the new artwork and originality. I think it helps add to the overall visual appeal of the map. The Large version of the map seems a tad blurry, but hopefully it won't be like that when playing. The smaller version seems crisp and fantastic.

---I particularly the Anhk-Morpork 'capital' idea. I think it will add an interesting touch to the gameplay.

~~~~~~~~~~ Nitty Gritty

---The Aurient~~ 5 Countries; 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. This continent seems pretty balanced, and I think the value is fine as it stands.

---XXXX~~ 4 Countries; 2 Borders; 2 Attack routes. As it stands I think this is also a fairly balanced area. Value of 2 seems alright, due to the small number of countries and attack routes.

---Rim Islands~~ 6 Countries; 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. I think 3 is probably the correct number for value, but an argument can be made for 4, but due to the limited amout of attack routes, I think 3 is the way to go, alright as it stands. Now, I know nothing of Discworld, so this is a blind stab in the dark. 'be Trobi Islands' is that correct? Just want to make sure nothing was lost in the 'be' part of the name.

---Hublands~~ 9 Countries; 4 Borders; 6 Attack routes. 4 seems in the area of the correct value. It's a rather good sized medium continent. I think a good number of battles will be fought here. Suggestion: There seems to almost be a border between Nothingfjord and Rammerock Mountains, due to the color of Hublands and the the lightness of the water. Perhaps extenind the mountains a little further into No Thingfjord would help alleviate that problem, though it isn't anything drastic. Just a precaution.

---Unnamed~~ 9 Countries; 5 Borders; 7 Attack routes. Similar to Hubland, but I think the value of 5 is fine, due to the special bonus being within the borders. It is more of an appealing continent for that I would suppose. I'm forseeing battles galore here also.

---Klatch~~ 10 Countries; 5 Borders; 6 Attack routes. The value seems a little under what it should be, due to the large number of countries and borders. Perhaps a value of 6 would be more suited for the continent. I also suggest perhaps making the attack route between Central Klatch and Anhk more prominent. I nearly skipped right over it due to the small size and vicinty of names near it.
==================================

Over all I think the map is well balanced. There aren't any considerably 'strong' continents that will give you a clear advantange once the capture of them is complete. It must be nearly ready for a final onceover and then distribution for play!


--Andy

Well, you improved really your map... correct the colour problems, put some fine art (I really loved it!!)... Pretty good.

Although I would still like that XXXX name changed, lets discuss some more important things. Your map is less linear now, but Im sitll thinking that another continent connection could be good. I suggest a route between Purdeighsland and Kythia, maybe Hammerock... Of course, its not trully necessary, its a suggestion...

But you commited an error... Its no more the lack of a medium continent... Did you realize that Unnamed and Klatch have same number of border countries, Klatch has 1 more country, and a smaller bonus? Unnamed bonus is 6, because of Ankh Morpork. One more border could justify this, but this way, I think its a little error. On other hand, Hublands have one less border, but can be attacked from almost all continents... How about split the hub, hubward waste... We could have a continent with a bonus of 7 here.

These are suggestions, you really only need change unnamed bonus. The rest looks great, I expect play soon.

Congratulations, its better than I expected.

AndyDufresne wrote:---Rim Islands~~ 7 Countries; 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. I think 3 is probably the correct number for value, but an argument can be made for 4 [...] 'be Trobi Islands' is that correct?

Six countries, I think, which should strengthen the case for a bonus of 3. (Although it means I did miscount, and there are only 43 countries total.) And "be Trobi" is indeed what they're called. (I can't recall for certain what "be Trobi" is supposed to mean, but it might have been "the islands".)

AndyDufresne wrote:Klatch [...] The value seems a little under what it should be, due to the large number of countries and borders. Perhaps a value of 6 would be more suited for the continent.

Marvaddin wrote:Did you realize that Unnamed and Klatch have same number of border countries, Klatch has 1 more country, and a smaller bonus?

A good point. Unless there's a good objection, I'll raise Klatch's bonus by one.

I'll also fix the blurriness, extend the No Thingford/Rammerock mountain un-border (is there a similar issue with No Thingford and Trollbone, or is that one clear enough?), and make the Ankh/Klatch connection more prominent.

---I think it is clear between No Thingfjord and Trollbone, though it wouldn't hurt to make it even more so. It isn't that big of a significance, due to them being in the same continent.

---And indeed there are 43 countries. If you are looking to place one perhaps the XXXX area would be the place to start looking. If there is another 'country' that could be put there. I don't think it would drastically change it, as long as it wasn't a border, and just an inner country or and island somewhere.

Other than that, I am not seeing really any more suggestions. I look forward to giving this map a play or two. And yes, Rim is 6 countries. Things happen when too much counting is involved in a short period of time.


--Andy

i like the idea in principle as i'm a big discworld fan but i think it's been fairly poorly executed in this case, however i would like to give it a try