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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V8)P5 - Less is More

Postby captainwalrus on Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:41 pm

The M rail looks blurred.

Before you said that not all of these lines are there now, whice makes this a commbination of just an african cities map an a rail map. Making the connections more rail looking would help it stay just a rail africa.
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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V8)P5 - Less is More

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:20 am

VErsion 9

Map with traditional railway lines...better or worse than the previous version?

Image

Image
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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby WidowMakers on Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:58 am

I don't think the traditional looks good with the Africa color. The black cross beams get lost and are hard to see.

What if you do a hybrid version. A single line with cross beams.
Rail Bottom
Image
Rail Top
Image
With single rail you can get more color with a thicker line and with the cross beams you get a more traditional look.


WM
Image
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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:47 pm

First one is better, but i'm agree with widowmakers and I sincerely hope that you will do a test ;)
The "M" and the "F" bonuses are a bit blurred ?
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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:08 pm

WidowMakers wrote:I don't think the traditional looks good with the Africa color. The black cross beams get lost and are hard to see.

What if you do a hybrid version. A single line with cross beams.
Rail Bottom
Image
Rail Top
Image
With single rail you can get more color with a thicker line and with the cross beams you get a more traditional look.


WM

Yeh, hi WM, i have started this, just haven't finsihed getting all the lines single.

thenobodies80 wrote:First one is better, but i'm agree with widowmakers and I sincerely hope that you will do a test ;)
The "M" and the "F" bonuses are a bit blurred ?

theonebodies, i'm not sure what you are saying which one is better? are you referring to WM's first example of line?
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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:14 am

cairnswk wrote:theonebodies, i'm not sure what you are saying which one is better? are you referring to WM's first example of line?


I was referring to your examples (Sorry, i forgot to add the image :oops: ).
I like this one between the two versions that you have posted :
Click image to enlarge.
image


But WM idea is interesting....
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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V8)P5 - Less is More

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:24 am

thenobodies80 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:theonebodies, i'm not sure what you are saying which one is better? are you referring to WM's first example of line?

I was referring to your examples (Sorry, i forgot to add the image :oops: ).
I like this one between the two versions that you have posted :
But WM idea is interesting....


OK, let's have little poll and see what punters want.
2 weeks should do it.

Which version of lines would you like to see?

A. Cairnswk original style
Image

B. Traditional style
Image

C. WMs sinlge line on the map.
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by cairnswk on Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby onbekende on Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:33 am

that inland streak you got at Dakar is nothing more then the river there, if you call that coastline you will have to add the congo atleast to :D

aka, kill it!
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:49 am

onbekende wrote:that inland streak you got at Dakar is nothing more then the river there, if you call that coastline you will have to add the congo atleast to :D

aka, kill it!

OKies. :)
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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V8)P5 - Less is More

Postby Night Strike on Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:17 pm

cairnswk wrote:OK, let's have little poll and see what punters want.
2 weeks should do it.

Which version of lines would you like to see?


Could you post at least a partial version of option C (even if it's not completed)? I'm leaning toward voting for it, but I'd rather at least see some part of the map before voting.
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Re: RAIL AFRICA (V8)P5 - Less is More

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:29 am

Night Strike wrote:
cairnswk wrote:OK, let's have little poll and see what punters want.
2 weeks should do it.

Which version of lines would you like to see?


Could you post at least a partial version of option C (even if it's not completed)? I'm leaning toward voting for it, but I'd rather at least see some part of the map before voting.

Sorry NS. Rough version above, please refresh your browser. :)
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby ender516 on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:24 am

I voted for option C, but I think I like the "rail bottom" look better, despite its distance from reality. With the "rail top" look, on some of the lines (the Continental, for one) the sleepers look not so much like crossbars under the line as dots on either side.

On a different note, is there a rationale for the order used to designate the endpoints of the lines (north to south, alphabetical, ...)? I ask because "The Viper" and "The East Coaster" have the same endpoints, but are listed PRA-RBK and RBK-PRA.

EDIT:

Another couple of quibbles.

Why is "La Madagascan" the only line consistently named in some language other than English? (Looks French to me, which checks with my recollection of Madagascar having been a French colony, but no doubt other languages use "la" as the definite article.)

What about "El Pharaoh Exp" on the map and "The Pharaoh Exp" in the text of the first post?

EDIT 2:

(I keep looking at this map, because I am jumping the gun and drafting some XML. Don't worry, if you don't pick me, I am perfectly willing to pass along whatever I have pulled together.)

Are you still planning to implement the following? (The text in the first post now mentions Casablanca and omits Tangier.)

cairnswk wrote:
SultanOfSurreal wrote:May I also suggest replacing Tangier (or possibly Laâyoune) with Casablanca? The latter is a much more influential city.

I used Tangier because it has the ferry link with Spain.
However, examination of the current ONCF rail tells me you are correct, so i will change this next version.
Thanks, Sultan :)


EDIT 3: (Maybe I should go to bed and stop bugging you.)

Why do BEK, NIA, LXR, MOU, BRK, KTO, and LSK have only one army circle and a different sort of icon showing the multiple lines that they are on?

EDIT 4:

Is Port Elizabeth, S.A., PLZ as shown on the map or PZT as listed in the text of the first post?

EDIT 5 (and last tonight):

What's it going to be, LVS (Livingston, I presume ;) ) as on the map or VFS (Victoria Falls) as listed in the text of the first post?

EDIT 6: (okay I lied)

I count 81 stations, not 82.
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:53 pm

ender516 wrote:I voted for option C, but I think I like the "rail bottom" look better, despite its distance from reality. With the "rail top" look, on some of the lines (the Continental, for one) the sleepers look not so much like crossbars under the line as dots on either side.

I prefer A option myself as it is something different for the map, and this black and coloured symbol is already in use in current maps to indicate rail lines.
For me, and i hope WM doesn't take offense to this, and even though the map i have put up is a rough version of what the end product may look like, option C seems to me that the map would look like it's covered by 'a herrring bone zipper'.
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:53 pm

On a different note, is there a rationale for the order used to designate the endpoints of the lines (north to south, alphabetical, ...)? I ask because "The Viper" and "The East Coaster" have the same endpoints, but are listed PRA-RBK and RBK-PRA.
no rationale
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:11 pm

cairnswk wrote:I prefer A option myself as it is something different for the map, and this black and coloured symbol is already in use in current maps to indicate rail lines.
For me, and i hope WM doesn't take offense to this, and even though the map i have put up is a rough version of what the end product may look like, option C seems to me that the map would look like it's covered by 'a herrring bone zipper'.


Agree with cairnswk.
My first click was for C........
This one is really good:
Image
Image
But on the map it doesn't look so good and it cause the same problem:
WidowMakers wrote:The black cross beams get lost and are hard to see.


So, my final vote is for option A ;)
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:25 pm

ender516 wrote:Why is "La Madagascan" the only line consistently named in some language other than English? (Looks French to me, which checks with my recollection of Madagascar having been a French colony, but no doubt other languages use "la" as the definite article.)
What about "El Pharaoh Exp" on the map and "The Pharaoh Exp" in the text of the first post?

Fixed the front page, i just hadn't got around to it :)


EDIT 2:
(I keep looking at this map, because I am jumping the gun and drafting some XML. Don't worry, if you don't pick me, I am perfectly willing to pass along whatever I have pulled together.)

Yes but if you pass on the xml to someone who hasn't done xml before then they lose the opportunity to become educated in the whole composition process. I would prefer you didn't do this. And besides, by the time this gets out of the next gaemplay and graphics stages and is ready for the xml, the new tool might be operational. :)

Are you still planning to implement the following? (The text in the first post now mentions Casablanca and omits Tangier.)
cairnswk wrote:
SultanOfSurreal wrote:May I also suggest replacing Tangier (or possibly Laâyoune) with Casablanca? The latter is a much more influential city.

I used Tangier because it has the ferry link with Spain.
However, examination of the current ONCF rail tells me you are correct, so i will change this next version.
Thanks, Sultan :)
Yes, Casablanca will be on the map.
EDIT 3: (Maybe I should go to bed and stop bugging you.)
Why do BEK, NIA, LXR, MOU, BRK, KTO, and LSK have only one army circle and a different sort of icon showing the multiple lines that they are on?
This simply means that you require only troops to hold both stations for each line...kind of like one company station with platform that has a booking office for another rail line but no platform of its own. In strategy they are kind of like choke-points that have to be fought over. They were first used in Rail USA.

EDIT 4:
Is Port Elizabeth, S.A., PLZ as shown on the map or PZT as listed in the text of the first post?
PLZ. changed on P1


EDIT 5 (and last tonight):
What's it going to be, LVS (Livingston, I presume ;) ) as on the map or VFS (Victoria Falls) as listed in the text of the first post?
LVS Livingstone is now on P1

EDIT 6: (okay I lied)
I count 81 stations, not 82.

I count 75 stations where armies will be held, but if 7 are part of another line (as you listed above) that makes the count 82. N'est-ce pas?
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby ender516 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:07 am

cairnswk wrote:
On a different note, is there a rationale for the order used to designate the endpoints of the lines (north to south, alphabetical, ...)? I ask because "The Viper" and "The East Coaster" have the same endpoints, but are listed PRA-RBK and RBK-PRA.
no rationale

Okay, then does anyone else think this might confuse people? Is it worth changing them to match?
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby ender516 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:17 am

cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:EDIT 2:
(I keep looking at this map, because I am jumping the gun and drafting some XML. Don't worry, if you don't pick me, I am perfectly willing to pass along whatever I have pulled together.)

Yes but if you pass on the xml to someone who hasn't done xml before then they lose the opportunity to become educated in the whole composition process. I would prefer you didn't do this. And besides, by the time this gets out of the next gaemplay and graphics stages and is ready for the xml, the new tool might be operational. :)

Okay, I won't spoil the fun for someone else, but unless you mean you don't want me working on the XML at all, I will continue with it "as an exercise for the student." I am experimenting with the use of entities which could help with ensuring consistent spelling.
cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:EDIT 3: (Maybe I should go to bed and stop bugging you.)
Why do BEK, NIA, LXR, MOU, BRK, KTO, and LSK have only one army circle and a different sort of icon showing the multiple lines that they are on?
This simply means that you require only troops to hold both stations for each line...kind of like one company station with platform that has a booking office for another rail line but no platform of its own. In strategy they are kind of like choke-points that have to be fought over. They were first used in Rail USA.

Oh, I see. Such things do not exist on Rail Australia, the only one I have played so far. May I suggest something different in the XML than what was done for Rail USA? Perhaps the name should be, for example, "BEC Bechar D+E" which makes it clear which lines are involved.
cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:EDIT 6: (okay I lied)
I count 81 stations, not 82.

I count 75 stations where armies will be held, but if 7 are part of another line (as you listed above) that makes the count 82. N'est-ce pas?

Well on that basis, I count 74! :lol: Seriously, I took a graphics program, loaded your map, dropped ellipses on every position and selected all objects. The program counted 75, and deselecting the map itself, I was told I had 74 ellipses selected. Maybe you are counting something twice. I will try compiling a text list of the positions when I am not falling asleep, and not retyping a post like this which I had all typed and lost when I went to look at Rail USA. :(
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby ender516 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:58 am

I changed my vote. After going away and coming back a few times to load the first page, I find I like the look of option A better.

Another nitpick: the legend for The Algerian says LYN-TRP (Tripoli?) but the map show TUN (Tunis).
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:53 pm

ender516 wrote:...
Another nitpick: the legend for The Algerian says LYN-TRP (Tripoli?) but the map show TUN (Tunis).

Fixed for next version after polls

ender516 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
On a different note, is there a rationale for the order used to designate the endpoints of the lines (north to south, alphabetical, ...)? I ask because "The Viper" and "The East Coaster" have the same endpoints, but are listed PRA-RBK and RBK-PRA.
no rationale

Okay, then does anyone else think this might confuse people? Is it worth changing them to match?

I'd like to leave then as they are. My thinking is that players might find them even more confusing if they both have the same endpoints the same way around. At least if they are different in the legend ticket, there is some differentiation between the two. :)

EDIT 6: (okay I lied)
I count 81 stations, not 82.

I count 75 stations where armies will be held, but if 7 are part of another line (as you listed above) that makes the count 82. N'est-ce pas?


My latest count using spreadsheet is 73 stations where troops will be deployed.
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby ender516 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:34 pm

Okay, I still get 74 places to put troops, as follows:

Code: Select all
ABA : Ambanja : Madagascar
. 01 ABA_O
ABJ : Abidjan : Cote D'ivoire
. 02 ABJ_D
. 03 ABJ_G
ACC : Accra : Ghana
. 04 ACC_G
ALG : Alger : Algeria
. 05 ALG_B
ATV : Antananarivo: Madagascar
. 06 ATV_O
BAM : Bamako : Mali
. 07 BAM_F
BEC : Bechar : Algeria
. 08 BEC_D_E
BGZ : Banghazi : Libya
. 09 BGZ_B
BRK : Brazzaville-Kinshasha : Dem Rep of Congo-Congo
. 10 BRK_H_I
CAI : Cairo : Egypt
. 11 CAI_A
. 12 CAI_B
. 13 CAI_C
CPT : Capetown : S Africa
. 14 CPT_M
. 15 CPT_N
CSB : Casablanca : Morocco
. 16 CSB_D
. 17 CSB_B
DJB : Djibouti : Djibouti
. 18 DJB_H
DKR : Dakar : Senegal
. 19 DKR_B
. 20 DKR_F
. 21 DKR_G
DSM : Dar Es Salaam : Tanzania
. 22 DSM_K
. 23 DSM_M
DUR : Durban : S Africa
. 24 DUR_N
FTN : Freetown : Sierra Leone
. 25 FTN_G
GOA : Goa : Mali
. 26 GOA_D
. 27 GOA_F
HRE : Harare : Zimbabwe
. 28 HRE_J
KMP : Kampala : Uganda
. 29 KMP_A
KNG : Kananga : Dem Rep of Congo
. 30 KNG_I
KTM : Khartoum : Sudan
. 31 KTM_A
KTO : Kuito : Angola
. 32 KTO_H_J
LSK : Lusaka : Zambia
. 33 LSK_M_J
LUB : Lubango : Angola
. 34 LUB_L
LVS : Livingston : Zambia
. 35 LVS_M
LXR : Luxor : Egypt
. 36 LXR_A_C
LYN : Laayoune : Western Sahara
. 37 LYN_E
. 38 LYN_B
MDU : Mogadishu : Somalia
. 39 MDU_K
. 40 MDU_F
MOU : Moundou : Chad
. 41 MOU_J_H
MPO : Maputo : Mozambique
. 42 MPO_K
MYA : Mbeya : Tanzania
. 43 MYA_A
. 44 MYA_I
. 45 MYA_M
NDJ : N'djamena : Chad
. 46 NDJ_F
NIA : Niamey : Niger
. 47 NIA_D_F
NOU : Nouakchott : Mauritania
. 48 NOU_B
NRB : Nairobi : Kenya
. 49 NRB_K
NYL : Niyala : Sudan
. 50 NYL_F
. 51 NYL_J
PRA : Pretoria : S Africa
. 52 PRA_J
. 53 PRA_K
. 54 PRA_L
. 55 PRA_M
. 56 PRA_N
PSN : Port Sudan : Egypt
. 57 PSN_C
PTN : Pointe-Noire : Congo
. 58 PTN_I
. 59 PTN_J
PLZ : Port Elizabeth : S Africa
. 60 PLZ_N
QLM : Quelimane : Mozambique
. 61 QLM_K
RBK : Rabak : Sudan
. 62 RBK_A
. 63 RBK_F
. 64 RBK_H
. 65 RBK_J
. 66 RBK_K
SWK : Swapokmund : Namibia
. 67 SWK_L
TLR : Toliara : Madagascar
. 68 TLR_O
TUN : Tunis : Tunisia
. 69 TUN_E
. 70 TUN_B
WDH : Windjoek : Namibia
. 71 WDH_H
. 72 WDH_L
YND : Yaounde : Cameroon
. 73 YND_G
. 74 YND_J
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby lt_oddball on Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:17 am

I don't have too much comments on this map.

I am only amazed to see that Africa has so many railwaylines, all internationally connected and through areas of conflict and over the sea to madagascar... a bit of wishfull thinking =?

Ok 1 comment: Maybe fancy the Africa background colour up a bit ?
Sahara areas yellowish, central "dark" Africa darker greenish, and
southern Africa a bit grass greenish tone ?
Or is everybody ok with this plain mudbrown colour ?
Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intellegor ulli.
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:15 pm

lt_oddball wrote:I don't have too much comments on this map.

I am only amazed to see that Africa has so many railwaylines, all internationally connected and through areas of conflict and over the sea to madagascar... a bit of wishfull thinking =?

Yes, kind of futuristic and wishful version, if i didn't do this, there would be no RAIL AFRICA map.
Governments of Africa issue on the ticket is indicative of where this might end up.

Ok 1 comment: Maybe fancy the Africa background colour up a bit ?
Sahara areas yellowish, central "dark" Africa darker greenish, and
southern Africa a bit grass greenish tone ?
Or is everybody ok with this plain mudbrown colour ?

Yes not sure what i'm going to do there yet....watch this space!
Thanks for suggestions. :)
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:16 pm

ender516 wrote:Okay, I still get 74 places to put troops, as follows:

Code: Select all
ABA : Ambanja : Madagascar
. 01 ABA_O
ABJ : Abidjan : Cote D'ivoire
. 02 ABJ_D
. 03 ABJ_G
ACC : Accra : Ghana
. 04 ACC_G
ALG : Alger : Algeria
. 05 ALG_B
ATV : Antananarivo: Madagascar
. 06 ATV_O
BAM : Bamako : Mali
. 07 BAM_F
BEC : Bechar : Algeria
. 08 BEC_D_E
BGZ : Banghazi : Libya
. 09 BGZ_B
BRK : Brazzaville-Kinshasha : Dem Rep of Congo-Congo
. 10 BRK_H_I
CAI : Cairo : Egypt
. 11 CAI_A
. 12 CAI_B
. 13 CAI_C
CPT : Capetown : S Africa
. 14 CPT_M
. 15 CPT_N
CSB : Casablanca : Morocco
. 16 CSB_D
. 17 CSB_B
DJB : Djibouti : Djibouti
. 18 DJB_H
DKR : Dakar : Senegal
. 19 DKR_B
. 20 DKR_F
. 21 DKR_G
DSM : Dar Es Salaam : Tanzania
. 22 DSM_K
. 23 DSM_M
DUR : Durban : S Africa
. 24 DUR_N
FTN : Freetown : Sierra Leone
. 25 FTN_G
GOA : Goa : Mali
. 26 GOA_D
. 27 GOA_F
HRE : Harare : Zimbabwe
. 28 HRE_J
KMP : Kampala : Uganda
. 29 KMP_A
KNG : Kananga : Dem Rep of Congo
. 30 KNG_I
KTM : Khartoum : Sudan
. 31 KTM_A
KTO : Kuito : Angola
. 32 KTO_H_J
LSK : Lusaka : Zambia
. 33 LSK_M_J
LUB : Lubango : Angola
. 34 LUB_L
LVS : Livingston : Zambia
. 35 LVS_M
LXR : Luxor : Egypt
. 36 LXR_A_C
LYN : Laayoune : Western Sahara
. 37 LYN_E
. 38 LYN_B
MDU : Mogadishu : Somalia
. 39 MDU_K
. 40 MDU_F
MOU : Moundou : Chad
. 41 MOU_J_H
MPO : Maputo : Mozambique
. 42 MPO_K
MYA : Mbeya : Tanzania
. 43 MYA_A
. 44 MYA_I
. 45 MYA_M
NDJ : N'djamena : Chad
. 46 NDJ_F
NIA : Niamey : Niger
. 47 NIA_D_F
NOU : Nouakchott : Mauritania
. 48 NOU_B
NRB : Nairobi : Kenya
. 49 NRB_K
NYL : Niyala : Sudan
. 50 NYL_F
. 51 NYL_J
PRA : Pretoria : S Africa
. 52 PRA_J
. 53 PRA_K
. 54 PRA_L
. 55 PRA_M
. 56 PRA_N
PSN : Port Sudan : Egypt
. 57 PSN_C
PTN : Pointe-Noire : Congo
. 58 PTN_I
. 59 PTN_J
PLZ : Port Elizabeth : S Africa
. 60 PLZ_N
QLM : Quelimane : Mozambique
. 61 QLM_K
RBK : Rabak : Sudan
. 62 RBK_A
. 63 RBK_F
. 64 RBK_H
. 65 RBK_J
. 66 RBK_K
SWK : Swapokmund : Namibia
. 67 SWK_L
TLR : Toliara : Madagascar
. 68 TLR_O
TUN : Tunis : Tunisia
. 69 TUN_E
. 70 TUN_B
WDH : Windjoek : Namibia
. 71 WDH_H
. 72 WDH_L
YND : Yaounde : Cameroon
. 73 YND_G
. 74 YND_J

Oh well, 74 it must be. It'll all come out in the xml, i'm sure. ;)
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Re: [POLL] RAIL AFRICA (V9)P6 - Railway Lines?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:17 pm

Poll extended for another week...due to poeple starting to vote. :)
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