Conquer Club

Dukasaur wrote:Visually it's beautiful! Absolutely beautiful.

Agreed. I love the trees you've done also.
tnb80, i would have thought the bridges could have done with a something a little extra that was uncomplicated.
Is it possible to place some 88s or similar on the territories for us to see what territories are actually in play. I too am confused by the "thrones".
From the bottom right legend, the A-H Condominium appears to be part of both Empires, but it has its own bonus, i look at that graphic and think perhaps that area should be done in a slightly diferent colour than the other two, because it is confusing trying to work out what is what down there, plus it is a totally different non-themed colour in the map.
Great work so far.

cairnswk wrote:Is it possible to place some 88s or similar on the territories for us to see what territories are actually in play. I too am confused by the "thrones".

Sure. (You can also test it directly using the map checker and the files in the first post)


The thrones....i can change the text into the legend, something like: "can attack and be attacked from the territory with the same symbol inside it"....i don't know it looks very clear to me....first i need the territory, then i can "sit" on the throne. Even if I gave to it a legend appearance the upper left corner is just a sort of inset, similar to your snipers in stalingrad.

cairnswk wrote:From the bottom right legend, the A-H Condominium appears to be part of both Empires, but it has its own bonus, i look at that graphic and think perhaps that area should be done in a slightly diferent colour than the other two, because it is confusing trying to work out what is what down there, plus it is a totally different non-themed colour in the map.

Bosnia Herzegovina is NOT part of any empire. This is also historically accurate.
About the minimaps, can I ask you if in this old version the minimaps are more clear? --> viewtopic.php?f=64&t=91896&start=90#p2996552
I also tried a colored version...but i don't like it so much.

Dukasaur wrote:Visually it's beautiful! Absolutely beautiful, without caveats or provisos! God I love it!

Gameplay-wise I have some reservations. A victory condition that can be satisfied by, basically, holding the centre of map will lead to a lot of quick, lopsided victories. I would, quite honestly, rather see this as a non-objective map. Or, if it must be an objectives map, go with a more complex victory condition.

Thanks, about victory condition....I not so keen in not having it. Afterall it's a dual monarchy map, i think that the "mission" to unite the two thrones fits perfectly.The current gameplay "force" also the players to run into the centre, that's in general a good thing. In addition neutrals should help to balance things - you need to take 3 neutral regions to reach just one throne - ...mmm , let me see how it plays. If victory condition will create a problem I'll change it.

Beta - Quenching

---The Final Forge period has concluded for the Austro-Hungarian Empire Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Beta Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for BETA Play. After an extended period of time in BETA and once all quirks and issues have been resolved, the map will be put into Full Play (barring any Lack vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

While the map is in BETA Play, there are a couple of administrative tasks that are required of the mapmaker(s) in addition to the initial gameplay testing:

1. Please ensure that the first post of the thread contains all the necessary information to help future visitors to the development thread; it's particularly important to ensure the most recent images are there, along with any helpful guides (such as gameplay quirks/nuances or the location/size of any starting neutrals etc.)
2. Please update the Map Information Portal with details of your map
3. Finally, it is the responsibility of the mapmaker(s) to ensure that they respond to further feedback in a timely and constructive manner.

--MrBenn

Woo! Can't wait 'til it's live!

-Sully

I just noticed that the troop circle for Modrus slightly overlaps the troop circle for Lika. When I moused over the overlap, the little parallels in BOB that tell you where you can attack started flashing back and forth. Not a problem for me, but I wondered if it could lead to errors for those people that use clickable maps?

I have played the map a couple of times now and I don't find anything very confusing about it. Both the Thrones and the Condominium are easy to understand. I think the map plays very well. I also like the background picture of the Kaiser Franz Josesph I. Kudos to the Mapmaker - the nobodies80.

tnb80, congratulations on this one, it's a ripper
a very nice addition to the stable sts.

great great map by my felllow countryman, congrats thenobodies

I have to wonder if maybe the victory condition is a bit too easy... I'm not sure though, I've only played one game so far.

Other than that, great map, plays very nicely.

The victory condition is not to easy. It is very unlikely that a player who is not the strongest could hold both thrones, and if a player is the strongest then he deserves to win. I think, though, that the map is unbalanced. It largely favors north-east outer layer. Only holdable bonuses in the beginning are Bohemia, Galicia and Lodomeria and Transylvania. And you could hold them all with need to defend only 1-3 terts depending on how much you can rely on neutrals to defend you. Although Bosnia may seem holdable, I've learned the hard way it is not. Also, Bohemia is easier to hold than Transylvania as it's neutral bordered territory is defended by 6 neutrals while Transylvania's is defended only by 3. You should probably make Bohemia a bit harder to take/hold. Also, isolate Bosnia a bit more and make it a holdable starting bonus.
I've played a few games on this map, only two of them recently, but I don't think I am wrong about anything I wrote.

Oh, I forgot two more things.
It shouldn't be Poszega but Pozsega.
"-Can attack and be attacked by the territory with the same symbol." is, as many already pointed out, very confusing. The first time I played this map I didn't understand what it means, so I just decided to ignore that part of the map completely.

If the strongest player takes the objective, it's very hard for the others to break it since you can only access it from 2 places on the map...

I'm just afraid it gives an advantage to those who drop near the thrones.

Look, it doesn't give an advantage to anyone because Hungary and Austria are impossible to hold, so the only reason someone would go for the thrones is to win the game. That won't happen too early in the game and the person who wants to hold them would have to prepare for it for some time, so it doesn't really mater how close he is. I mean, nobody can take and hold the objectives in the first five turns, right? I played some objective maps, and I have never seen a player win by holding the objectives unless he was absolutely dominant in the game. In my opinion it would be nice to have some map with easier objectives.

The objective doesn't seems to me so easy to take/hold. For now I don't see real reasons to change the gameplay.

Obrens wrote:It shouldn't be Poszega but Pozsega.
"-Can attack and be attacked by the territory with the same symbol." is, as many already pointed out, very confusing. The first time I played this map I didn't understand what it means, so I just decided to ignore that part of the map completely.

I'll fix Pozsega.

About the legend, I tried to add something like:

(Austrian symbol) Wien <--> Austrian Throne
(Hungarian symbol) Pest <--> Hungarian Throne

Unfortunately there's no enough space to fit all those info.
What do you suggest? (i'll change attack to assault in any case)

Btw for a strange reason the small version isn't updated, don't ask me why...no idea
I'll post an update of both versions asap.

Nobodies

Updated.

Changes:
- Left legend Attack --> assault
- Right legend moved the +4 of Bosnia & Herzegovina a bit to left
- Applied previous changes on small map
- Poszega --> Pozsega

This is a snazzy looking map!

I would have made the Hungarian kingdom blue and the Bosnia/Herzegovina green to represent the overlap of the two empires, but that is probably not really worth your time at this point.

One very minor note - at first glance, the darker shade appears to be that which you are referencing. Personally, I'd flip those, but as they don't really affect gameplay, no big deal.

lostatlimbo wrote:One very minor note - at first glance, the darker shade appears to be that which you are referencing. Personally, I'd flip those, but as they don't really affect gameplay, no big deal.

Do you mean the minimaps in the right legend? I think the same and it was in that way (look the older versions) but the people suggested for the opposite.

I know I am probably a bit late in the game for bringing graphical issues up. But I am going to do it anyway .

Nobodies, the borders rounds your legends and your mountains are very blurry and pull down the otherwise clean and crisp look of the rest of your map. I think you need to bring these areas back into focus so that they tie your whole map together nicely. For the mountains I think you need a sharper bevel so they feel crisp and pointed. The borders I would suggest need a redraw (or maybe just a sharpen filter).

Other than those though, I like this map its different.

tnb80. just checking this out again...

is there supposed to be a passable border between Somogy and Veszprein. If no, then i think the lake or the forst there makes it confusing. Perhaps some more forest if no.
If yes, then some forest needs clearing.
Also the forest above the name Bjelovar...is that meant to be an impassable between Veszprein and Bjelovar. If yes, then perhaps some more forest could make it less confusing.

What i cme in here for originally was to make sure there was the same issue with being able to read the legends as on Middle Ages.
Because of the smallness of type in the small map, it coulddo with some background lighting or glow or similar around the Thrones legend and also the bonus legend....just for clarity and complete legiblity.

Yeah, if it is at all possible to slightly up the font size on the small map or make it easier to read some other way it would be pretty great.

I know it really only impacts you the first time you play the map but first impressions are big.

I have no so much time this week, so probably I'll post an update during the next one.
Anyway I'll try to find a way to make things clearer according your suggestions.

Thanks for the feedback.

A small detail, which is probably only worth fixing if you are doing something else to the XML: the continents for "n transleithanian territories" and "n cisleithanian territories" would look better in BOB if they were capitalized like the "Austrian Throne and n Transleithanian territories" and "Austrian Throne and n Cisleithanian territories", which are the only ones which provide a bonus and thus appear in the game log.

I'm just underway in my first game on this map, and I like it so far. (I'm holding Bosnia & Herzegovina )

Temes needs another border than just that neutral. In 2v2 game, once that bonus is taken one has to go through a 3 unit neutral or go all of the way around. Maybe we just got one of the worst starting positions ever on that map, but still a neutral border is a border that doesnt need to be defended in most games.

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=9624355 <--- our fail starting position game

Maybe another bridge from Syrmia? As of right now it is about 1 border for a +2 bonus.

Bohemia bonus is even worse. Yes one has to take a neutral for the bonus, but once u hold it there is a 3,3 neutral buffer, so basically defend one border for a +2 bonus. I think some of these bonuses should be slightly more breakable. If you want the map to be true to life then I guess it is what it is. But most 2v2 games will be fought around those easy to hold bonuses with neutral border buffers.

-js-

*Edit: Ill try out a FFA style play and see if the bonuses still seem a bit to easy to hold and give an update.