Italy [Quenched]

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Postby RjBeals on Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:40 pm

I am going to try and rotate the map just a little to give more horizontal map area instead of vertical
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Postby Marvaddin on Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:57 pm

The red are is unplayable. We would need some unpassable borders, or maybe join it with other area.
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Postby Lupo on Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:51 am

I have an idea: since in CC we have already a lot of medium and very big sized map, designed for a big number of players, why don't we make Italy map for a target of 4 and 5 players, 'cause we have got already 20 regions, so we could have at the start of the game, respectively, 5 or 4 territtories for each player.
We could also add an option that, if are only 3 the players for this map, add automatically an extra territory or split a region like Emila-Romagna into Emila and Romagna... in this way in a 3 players game each player could start with 7 territories...

I mean every map have to be original, 'cause, if weren't so, why to play on a different map?

It could be cool having a map designed for 3 players only
or for 4-5 maximum...

It could be particulary useful in real time games where the best solution is to have a limitated number of players (3 or 4, usually) and fast games!

So I would take into account the possibility to make 2 Italy map: one for 3 players only with 21 territories and one with 20 territories for 4-5 players only...

Any positive feedback about my proposal?

I am quite sure, there will be only negative's ones... :-)
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Postby qeee1 on Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:17 am

I'm a negative one. Small territory maps are very difficult to balance.

Go for a standard 42(ish) territory map. The way to go imo.
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Postby Lupo on Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:25 am

this is not true if you design Italy map only for 3 players with 21 territoties.

this is an option that have to be really considered, 'cause it would be really fun to have a map where to play fast and good real time games (3 players only)
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:47 am

I support small maps. Have always wanted a small map for rt, i believe 24 countries is the lowest you should go, however. If someone doesn't make a small map by the middle of next year i might have to look into making one myself.
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Postby RjBeals on Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:02 am

I will work through this map, but it's my first so it may take some time. When I first started the map, I thought about the 20 real countries were arranged almost perfectly for a cc map, but then figured I needed more for a balanced game. Thats why I went with 42. I don't want to create 4 maps (big/small 21 country) & (big/small 42 country) - but am thinking the 21 country map seems like a good idea. I could make it as true real as possible. Would probably have to put in some non-passable borders. I will have some free time this afternoon so I'll give it a shot.
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Postby Lupo on Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:47 pm

In my opinion, you should make unpassable borders between Toscana and Emilia-Romagna, Piemonte and Liguria, Lazio and Abruzzo, molise and Campania, umbria and Marche... then you could think about the idea to connect some regions with mountain passes and to think about some main rivers like Po, Adige, Tevere, Tagliamento...

the Po crosses all north italy from Piemonte to Veneto.. it is the natural border between many regions, dividing Emila-Romagna from Lombardia and Veneto.

you could use Tagliamento as well as the border between friuli-Venezia-Giulia and Veneto...

then you could consider to add some bridge, in the case you need...

Garda lake is the main italian lake and it is the natural border between Lombardia, Veneto and Trentino-Alto Adige

I was thinking that as 21st territory you could consider also Corsica...
and this is could be really useful, 'cause you could have the insland continent, made up by Sicilia, Sardegna and Corsica.

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In fact, I suggest to divide italy into 21 territories: the 20 actual regions plus Corsica.

ideas for continents:

north-west Italy: Valle d'Aosta, Piemonte, Lombardia and Liguria

north-east Italy: Veneto, Trentino-Alto Adige and Friuli-Venezia Giulia

mid-north Italy: Emilia-Romagna, Toscana, Umbria, Marche

mid-south Italy: Lazio, Abruzzo, Molise

south Italy: Campania, Puglia, Basilicata and Calabria

"insular" Italy: Sicilia, Sardegna and Corsica


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About sea route connections

Lazio should be connected with Sardegna (and eventually also with Sicilia and Corsica)

Sicilia should be connected with Sardegna and Calabria

Corsica should be connected with Liguria and Toscana

Veneto could be connected with Puglia
Last edited by Lupo on Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RjBeals on Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:49 pm

Wow... Now that's some feedback. Lupo those are some great ideas. Here's my most recent (21 country) map with the axis tilted a bit to make the map longer horizontaly. Still rough draft in all aspects. Lupo, I created this before I read your post - I will incorporate some of your great ideas in the next revision. You must seriosuly want this Italian map !!

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Postby Lupo on Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:00 pm

What I want most is to obtain a good map, without changing too much real Italian structure...

the rotation idea is even better than my previsions...

just remember to put, if you agree, a wind rose or something indicating the north direction on a corner of the map

about Vatican City I am not so enthusiastic....

i would prefer to delete it, if possible, since in reality is so small, only 108.7 acres (0,44 km²), than san Marino (61,5 km²), would appear a big country...

but this is only my opinion.. in any case if you still want to have Vatican city maybe you could think to introduce also San Marino... and giving to who holds both these teritories the +1 bonus...

but I repeat, I would prefer a Italy map without them, with Lazio as a single territory, including also rome province, at least for now.

I mean let's make a basic version of the map and after we could think about what is best to add on it....
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:16 pm

Argh, you need 24 countries so that 3 and 4 player games have no neutrals. 24 is a good number. Add San Marino as a country.
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Postby RjBeals on Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:31 pm

24 will be the number.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:42 pm

RjBeals wrote:24 will be the number.


If you need more regions to add to Italy's 20 regions you could make Corsica a playable region. Maybe you could also add Malta in there. I understand however that those two islands are not part of Italy. There is always the option of using Pantelleria, Elba and Lampedusa as well which are Italian.

I still don't like the Vatican City covering such a big region on the map. I mean the Vatican is a tiny dot with a few hundred people living in it. I think that if you want to create an extra region in Lazio with a bonus that should be Rome.

Hmm come to think of it you might also add San Marino to get another region for the map. That would make 24. What do you think?
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:20 pm

24 countries... what a waste... :( :( :(
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:43 am

Marvaddin its about time this site has a small map. Make sure you add a North symbol since u screwed the usual north.

4 territories will be easy to create, split Sicily in 2, split Sardinia in 2, add Juventus, add Milan, add San Marino, split Emilia-Romagna into Emilia and Romagna, split Trentino-South Tyrol into Trentino and South Tyrol etc.

Agree with everyone that Vatican City should be renamed Rome. If your going to give that territory a plus one bonus, i think it should connect to more regions, connect it to pink at least.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:05 am

Marvaddin wrote:24 countries... what a waste... :( :( :(


My thoughts exactly, and I thought Ireland was bad.
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Postby Lupo on Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:15 am

Gavin, It seems you know better Italian football clubs than Italian geography... lol

gavin_sidhu wrote:Marvaddin its about time this site has a small map. Make sure you add a North symbol since u screwed the usual north.

4 territories will be easy to create, split Sicily in 2, split Sardinia in 2, add Juventus, add Milan, add San Marino, split Emilia-Romagna into Emilia and Romagna, split Trentino-South Tyrol into Trentino and South Tyrol etc.

Agree with everyone that Vatican City should be renamed Rome. If your going to give that territory a plus one bonus, i think it should connect to more regions, connect it to pink at least.


I agree with you: 24 territories is a really good number for real time games with 3 or 4 players!
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:19 am

Lupo wrote:Gavin, It seems you know better Italian football clubs than Italy geography... lol

gavin_sidhu wrote:Marvaddin its about time this site has a small map. Make sure you add a North symbol since u screwed the usual north.

4 territories will be easy to create, split Sicily in 2, split Sardinia in 2, add Juventus, add Milan, add San Marino, split Emilia-Romagna into Emilia and Romagna, split Trentino-South Tyrol into Trentino and South Tyrol etc.

Agree with everyone that Vatican City should be renamed Rome. If your going to give that territory a plus one bonus, i think it should connect to more regions, connect it to pink at least.


I agree with you: 24 territories is a really good number for real time games with 3 or 4 players![/b]
Meant Torino.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:25 am

gavin_sidhu wrote:
Lupo wrote:Gavin, It seems you know better Italian football clubs than Italy geography... lol

gavin_sidhu wrote:Marvaddin its about time this site has a small map. Make sure you add a North symbol since u screwed the usual north.

4 territories will be easy to create, split Sicily in 2, split Sardinia in 2, add Juventus, add Milan, add San Marino, split Emilia-Romagna into Emilia and Romagna, split Trentino-South Tyrol into Trentino and South Tyrol etc.

Agree with everyone that Vatican City should be renamed Rome. If your going to give that territory a plus one bonus, i think it should connect to more regions, connect it to pink at least.


I agree with you: 24 territories is a really good number for real time games with 3 or 4 players![/b]
Meant Torino.



you mean turin right?
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Postby Lupo on Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:29 am

Anyway to reach 24 territories, i suggest to take in consideration the following list:

- the 20 Italian regions;

- Corsica;

- split Emilia-Romagna into Emila and Romagna;

- add San Marino;

- add Rome in the place of Vatican, considering Rome territory the one corresponding to its province. (you could still call it Vatican State, but if you do this, please try to make it as smallest as possible!)

Total 24!
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:07 am

Don't think Corsica would be a good idea, its French. Split Sicily or Sardinia.

To reverend_kyle: Torino is the Italian name for Turin.

Edit: might want to split Tuscany to help with playability.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:25 am

gavin_sidhu wrote:4 territories will be easy to create, split Sicily in 2, split Sardinia in 2, add Juventus, add Milan, add San Marino, split Emilia-Romagna into Emilia and Romagna, split Trentino-South Tyrol into Trentino and South Tyrol etc.


Errr...Gavin...you do know that Juventus is a glorious football club, but not the name of a city do you? That would be Torino my friend! :P
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Postby Lupo on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:26 am

Also Vatican and San Marino are not Italian, Gavin!

Moreover, if you consider that Napoleone Bonaparte was from Corsica and that his parents were Italian (in fact, he changed his surname from Buonaparte, that literally means good side, to Bonaparte in order to make it sound less italian and more french) because previously Corsica was part of the Kingdom of Piemonte.

So, in my opinion, Corsica is part of Italian history as well as Vatican and San Marino.

P.S.: Does someone of you know that San Marino is the oldest republic in the world?
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:27 am

reverend_kyle wrote:
Marvaddin wrote:24 countries... what a waste... :( :( :(


My thoughts exactly, and I thought Ireland was bad.


Oh come on people. Ireland is a great map. Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean others won't. As I said before it's impossible for everyone to like a map!
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:31 am

Lupo wrote:Also Vatican and San Marino are not Italian, Gavin!

Moreover, if you consider that Napoleone Bonaparte was from Corsica and that his parents were Italian (in fact, he changed his surname from Buonaparte, that literally means good side, to Bonaparte in order to make it sound less italian and more french) because previously Corsica was part of Reign of Piemonte.

So, in my opinion, Corsica is part of Italian history as well as Vatican and San Marino.

P.S.: Does someone of you know that San Marino is the oldest republic in the world?


Well Malta is part of Italian history as well as it was under the rule of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. Maybe it could be included in the map as well. Corsica is definetely of Italian origin...even their surnames are Italian.

While we are at it we could include the Canton Ticino, the Italian speaking canton of Switzerland! ;)

Anyway even San Marino and the Vatican are populated by Italians. They are just symoblic states in my opinion just like Monaco with France.
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