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Italy [Quenched]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:44 pm
by RjBeals
Most Recent Map:

Link to the map I used as a guide.

I didn't see any mention of Italy maps by using the search. Most likely because the map is long & skinny - not the best layout for a CC map (but then either was the Philippines). Before I go further, would like some feedback on first draft. Italy really has 20 regions, each subdivided with like 4 or 5 provinces. So I had to combine some. Map has been created so far using photoshop layers so changes to borders / colors etc. will not be difficult. Also some good textures & images will be used to spice it up before it's complete. Thanks ![/color]

First Draft
2nd Draft
3rd Draft
4th Draft
5th Draft
6th Draft
7th Draft
8th Draft
9th Draft
10th Draft

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:28 pm
by happysadfun
Actually, I made one a while back, and i'll post some versions here to. Mateo someone or other also made one, called Conquest Italia.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:31 pm
by happysadfun
Here's my final before i closed it:

And Matt's:



PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:36 pm
by RjBeals
Ahh.. I figured there was something out there. Almost every idea I've thought of has already been mentioned here. I'll still wait for some feedback & see if I should continue, or if Matt is still working? - I guess you're not since you closed it. Thanks for the images.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:37 pm
by happysadfun
I haven't seen matt around here since summer. go ahead and work, yours looks to be the best of all of ours.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:08 pm
by Wisse
the one of rj is better than the others :)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:13 pm
by Hoff
i think the last one in the list looks the best, but still needs work.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:02 pm
by gavin_sidhu
Vento needs an extra territory as does sardinia. Leave Tuscany as it is though, will make the map interesting.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:04 pm
by qeee1
Is the territory with rome in it missing from the bonuses list?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:30 pm
by RjBeals
qeee1 wrote: Is the territory with rome in it missing from the bonuses list?

Hmm.. appears that I totally left it out. 8 Territories with only 7 Bonus. Ha ! Should I combine 2 areas or add the 8th Bonus terriroty (with Rome)? I'm thinking I should combine & re-divide the lands, as 8 would be too many for a map this size. [/quote]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:21 pm
by gavin_sidhu
RjBeals wrote:
qeee1 wrote: Is the territory with rome in it missing from the bonuses list?

Hmm.. appears that I totally left it out. 8 Territories with only 7 Bonus. Ha ! Should I combine 2 areas or add the 8th Bonus terriroty (with Rome)? I'm thinking I should combine & re-divide the lands, as 8 would be too many for a map this size.
[/quote]get rid of the territory rome, its too small, combine it with one of its neighbours (u can call that rome if you want)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:38 am
by Lupo
If you wish, I could give you many feedbacks about Italy map...
so ask me, please, for any kind of doubt you have about it.
There could be many ways to make an italian map:
one could be similar to world 2.0 map, taking 4 or 5 continents and as many sub-continents as the number of italian regions...


Italy is subdivided into 20 regions (regioni, singular regione). Five of these regions enjoy a special autonomous status that enables them to enact legislation on some of their specific local matters, and are marked by an *:

Abruzzo (L'Aquila)
Basilicata (Potenza)
Calabria (Catanzaro)
Campania (Naples, Napoli)
Emilia-Romagna (Bologna)
Friuli-Venezia Giulia* (Trieste)
Lazio, Latium (Rome, Roma)
Liguria (Genoa, Genova)
Lombardy, Lombardia (Milan, Milano)
Marche, Marches (Ancona)
Molise, (Campobasso)
Piedmont, Piemonte (Turin, Torino)
Apulia, Puglia (Bari)
Sardinia*, Sardegna (Cagliari)
Aosta Valley*, Valle d'Aosta (Aosta)
Tuscany, Toscana (Florence, Firenze)
Trentino-South Tyrol*, Trentino-Alto Adige, (Trento)
Umbria (Perugia)
Sicily*, Sicilia (Palermo)
Veneto (Venice, Venezia)

This could be a really good way to reproduce a modern Italy map...

If not, if you prefer to make a smaller map I suggest other 2 options:

- you could take inspiration from Italy hystory and make a map of Italy at a certain age..(it could be quite cool)

- or you coud consider the idea to make a physical map of Italy.....

by the way, about your map, you placed rome in the wrong position, instead it should be placed where actually there's a bordering circle

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:49 pm
by RjBeals
Lupo (and others) - thanks for the all the feedback so far. I considered making the map true to the current region borders, but thought it would be too many, and the map would be too busy. The map you posted I already saw and got excited at first, but it was too much. I was going to have a +1 army bonus to hold Rome (even though it’s in the wrong position) – then I thought instead of having the Vatican as +1 instead (the true Italian Roman Catholic Army!!). Let me think about the topography style map & the historic italy sounds cool also.

Anyway, I would prefer to keep the map with 42 countries, 7 or 8 territories. Unless someone feels strongly against it. I’m kinda busy the next few days, but will work on it & post an update early next

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:40 pm
by Ruben Cassar
I love the idea of an Italy map. In fact I was going to try to do one myself but someone was working on one so I didn't.

Anyway I like your map but it would be nice if the names of the regions and cities were in Italian. If you need any help with that I am available or I can give you links to Italian maps.

On the army bonus, I think it's a great idea but I would give that to Roma (Rome). Rome is part of's the eternal city. :) And anyway the Vatican is in fact inside Rome!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:57 pm
by Lupo
i was thinking that it could be possible to rotate 90° Italy map, in order to make a more detailed map using the same space...

about Rome you could do whatever you wish, but please locate it in the right position... Moreover I would prefer a different territory division changing some of the territories you created and in some cases also their names

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:40 pm
by RjBeals
I am going to try and rotate the map just a little to give more horizontal map area instead of vertical

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:57 pm
by Marvaddin
The red are is unplayable. We would need some unpassable borders, or maybe join it with other area.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:51 am
by Lupo
I have an idea: since in CC we have already a lot of medium and very big sized map, designed for a big number of players, why don't we make Italy map for a target of 4 and 5 players, 'cause we have got already 20 regions, so we could have at the start of the game, respectively, 5 or 4 territtories for each player.
We could also add an option that, if are only 3 the players for this map, add automatically an extra territory or split a region like Emila-Romagna into Emila and Romagna... in this way in a 3 players game each player could start with 7 territories...

I mean every map have to be original, 'cause, if weren't so, why to play on a different map?

It could be cool having a map designed for 3 players only
or for 4-5 maximum...

It could be particulary useful in real time games where the best solution is to have a limitated number of players (3 or 4, usually) and fast games!

So I would take into account the possibility to make 2 Italy map: one for 3 players only with 21 territories and one with 20 territories for 4-5 players only...

Any positive feedback about my proposal?

I am quite sure, there will be only negative's ones... :-)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:17 am
by qeee1
I'm a negative one. Small territory maps are very difficult to balance.

Go for a standard 42(ish) territory map. The way to go imo.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:25 am
by Lupo
this is not true if you design Italy map only for 3 players with 21 territoties.

this is an option that have to be really considered, 'cause it would be really fun to have a map where to play fast and good real time games (3 players only)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:47 am
by gavin_sidhu
I support small maps. Have always wanted a small map for rt, i believe 24 countries is the lowest you should go, however. If someone doesn't make a small map by the middle of next year i might have to look into making one myself.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:02 am
by RjBeals
I will work through this map, but it's my first so it may take some time. When I first started the map, I thought about the 20 real countries were arranged almost perfectly for a cc map, but then figured I needed more for a balanced game. Thats why I went with 42. I don't want to create 4 maps (big/small 21 country) & (big/small 42 country) - but am thinking the 21 country map seems like a good idea. I could make it as true real as possible. Would probably have to put in some non-passable borders. I will have some free time this afternoon so I'll give it a shot.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:47 pm
by Lupo
In my opinion, you should make unpassable borders between Toscana and Emilia-Romagna, Piemonte and Liguria, Lazio and Abruzzo, molise and Campania, umbria and Marche... then you could think about the idea to connect some regions with mountain passes and to think about some main rivers like Po, Adige, Tevere, Tagliamento...

the Po crosses all north italy from Piemonte to Veneto.. it is the natural border between many regions, dividing Emila-Romagna from Lombardia and Veneto.

you could use Tagliamento as well as the border between friuli-Venezia-Giulia and Veneto...

then you could consider to add some bridge, in the case you need...

Garda lake is the main italian lake and it is the natural border between Lombardia, Veneto and Trentino-Alto Adige

I was thinking that as 21st territory you could consider also Corsica...
and this is could be really useful, 'cause you could have the insland continent, made up by Sicilia, Sardegna and Corsica.


In fact, I suggest to divide italy into 21 territories: the 20 actual regions plus Corsica.

ideas for continents:

north-west Italy: Valle d'Aosta, Piemonte, Lombardia and Liguria

north-east Italy: Veneto, Trentino-Alto Adige and Friuli-Venezia Giulia

mid-north Italy: Emilia-Romagna, Toscana, Umbria, Marche

mid-south Italy: Lazio, Abruzzo, Molise

south Italy: Campania, Puglia, Basilicata and Calabria

"insular" Italy: Sicilia, Sardegna and Corsica


About sea route connections

Lazio should be connected with Sardegna (and eventually also with Sicilia and Corsica)

Sicilia should be connected with Sardegna and Calabria

Corsica should be connected with Liguria and Toscana

Veneto could be connected with Puglia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:49 pm
by RjBeals
Wow... Now that's some feedback. Lupo those are some great ideas. Here's my most recent (21 country) map with the axis tilted a bit to make the map longer horizontaly. Still rough draft in all aspects. Lupo, I created this before I read your post - I will incorporate some of your great ideas in the next revision. You must seriosuly want this Italian map !!


PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:00 pm
by Lupo
What I want most is to obtain a good map, without changing too much real Italian structure...

the rotation idea is even better than my previsions...

just remember to put, if you agree, a wind rose or something indicating the north direction on a corner of the map

about Vatican City I am not so enthusiastic....

i would prefer to delete it, if possible, since in reality is so small, only 108.7 acres (0,44 km²), than san Marino (61,5 km²), would appear a big country...

but this is only my opinion.. in any case if you still want to have Vatican city maybe you could think to introduce also San Marino... and giving to who holds both these teritories the +1 bonus...

but I repeat, I would prefer a Italy map without them, with Lazio as a single territory, including also rome province, at least for now.

I mean let's make a basic version of the map and after we could think about what is best to add on it....