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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:07 pm
by greenoaks
agentcom wrote:All the medals have some sort of "cap." With the standard medals, they are capped at 3: Bronze, silver, gold. After that you just have to play standard games (or whatever) for fun, points, prestige, clan wins, etc. That is, something other than medals. The same goes for tournaments: after you've won 30 you can still enter more tournaments, but you don't also get the medal out of it. You can continue to do it to move up the Hall of Fame or for fun or whatever reason, but medals won't really be your goal.

that is well put =D>

agentcom wrote:To me this is a minor change that will award a few more medals to those that have gone so far above and beyond the current cap of 30 that they almost demand recognition.

i don't know anyone who would meet this criteria

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:23 pm
by HighlanderAttack
The cap of thirty is because of Roman Numerals, not because it was deemed a worthy achievement.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:24 pm
by Gillipig
jricart wrote:So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

JRT

That's the thing, There is no point with this suggestion. If we change to Arabic numerals we won't need to deal with this again. And if we change to a Bronze, Siliver, Gold, system, we also won't need to deal with this again. But just sticking with roman numerals won't solve anything, and we'll soon have this discussion again.
We're sweeping dust under the mat.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:47 pm
by greenoaks
Gillipig wrote:
jricart wrote:So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

JRT

That's the thing, There is no point with this suggestion. If we change to Arabic numerals we won't need to deal with this again. And if we change to a Bronze, Siliver, Gold, system, we also won't need to deal with this again. But just sticking with roman numerals won't solve anything, and we'll soon have this discussion again.
We're sweeping dust under the mat.

if we change to Bronze, Silver, Gold we WILL have this discussion again.

we are already having this discussion on that format in another thread, just waiting for admin to make a decision on it. [-o<

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:39 pm
by Qwert
here two examples.
in first you have roman numeral, who unfortunately only count to 30, but in second you can see that Arabic numeral can count up to 999.
When we look on Tournament hall of fame, most Organized Tournament have merch 313- 296 Tournaments, these mean if he want to reach 999 he need to next 9 years create 6,5 tournaments each month. Now in Winner hall of fame Highlander attack have most wins 291-if you look when he join CC, he each month win 5,38 tournaments. In these tempo, he need another 11 years to reach 999 wining tournaments. So in a very long run, you will solve these , only need to change roman with Arabic.
And everybody happy.Case close.

Image

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:49 pm
by chapcrap
qwert wrote:here two examples.
in first you have roman numeral, who unfortunately only count to 30, but in second you can see that Arabic numeral can count up to 999.
When we look on Tournament hall of fame, most Organized Tournament have merch 313- 296 Tournaments, these mean if he want to reach 999 he need to next 9 years create 6,5 tournaments each month. Now in Winner hall of fame Highlander attack have most wins 291-if you look when he join CC, he each month win 5,38 tournaments. In these tempo, he need another 11 years to reach 999 wining tournaments. So in a very long run, you will solve these , only need to change roman with Arabic.
And everybody happy.Case close.

Image

Yes, that works IF we want to have no cap and treat all medals equally.

However, this is to try and raise the cap, not remove it. And we don't want to dilute the medal pool so much. So, again, there is no need to change to Arabic because we aren't using the medal system that you are talking about.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:11 pm
by Dukasaur
qwert wrote:here two examples.
in first you have roman numeral, who unfortunately only count to 30, but in second you can see that Arabic numeral can count up to 999.
When we look on Tournament hall of fame, most Organized Tournament have merch 313- 296 Tournaments, these mean if he want to reach 999 he need to next 9 years create 6,5 tournaments each month. Now in Winner hall of fame Highlander attack have most wins 291-if you look when he join CC, he each month win 5,38 tournaments. In these tempo, he need another 11 years to reach 999 wining tournaments. So in a very long run, you will solve these , only need to change roman with Arabic.
And everybody happy.Case close.

Image

No, everybody NOT happy. Get it through your head that we do not want people to get 999 medals for doing the same thing over and over again like robots. Medals are supposed to be for stretching yourself in NEW directions, for trying NEW accomplishments, for setting HIGHER goals.

Cranking out medals ad infinitum is just devaluing the currency. What we are talking about is a REASONABLE increase in the medal cap, not 999.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:40 pm
by Qwert
Dukasaur wrote:
qwert wrote:here two examples.
in first you have roman numeral, who unfortunately only count to 30, but in second you can see that Arabic numeral can count up to 999.
When we look on Tournament hall of fame, most Organized Tournament have merch 313- 296 Tournaments, these mean if he want to reach 999 he need to next 9 years create 6,5 tournaments each month. Now in Winner hall of fame Highlander attack have most wins 291-if you look when he join CC, he each month win 5,38 tournaments. In these tempo, he need another 11 years to reach 999 wining tournaments. So in a very long run, you will solve these , only need to change roman with Arabic.
And everybody happy.Case close.

Image

No, everybody NOT happy. Get it through your head that we do not want people to get 999 medals for doing the same thing over and over again like robots. Medals are supposed to be for stretching yourself in NEW directions, for trying NEW accomplishments, for setting HIGHER goals.

Cranking out medals ad infinitum is just devaluing the currency. What we are talking about is a REASONABLE increase in the medal cap, not 999.

What wrong with you? i give mine suggestion and opinion, are these forbidden? Like i say earlier, its look that we have two opposite side here-Mods and Community, Mods want one thing and community want second thing, Now its look that new solution will be to open completely new suggestion topic with new suggestion, because you are not open for any other opinions.
But then we will have problem, because you oppose any other opinion ,no mater if these possible or not .
People need to get what they want, if someone want to win tournament like Robot, over and over again( like highlander), maybe he enjoy in these?

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:28 pm
by greenoaks
all of the community does not support your suggestion qwert.

i don't and i am someone who would benefit greatly from your sug.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:52 am
by agentcom
HighlanderAttack wrote:The cap of thirty is because of Roman Numerals, not because it was deemed a worthy achievement.


And maybe we should consider ourselves lucky that it was set up this way. I like that it was capped out regardless of the initial reason. I think it's a good system to keep the caps in place, but I am in favor of loosening them a bit. Hence my support of some form of this suggestion.

jricart wrote:So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

JRT


We don't have to have the same discussion in the future. We might, we might not. If people start greatly exceeding the new recognition levels then this may come up again.

Gillipig wrote:
jricart wrote:So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

JRT

That's the thing, There is no point with this suggestion. If we change to Arabic numerals we won't need to deal with this again. And if we change to a Bronze, Siliver, Gold, system, we also won't need to deal with this again. But just sticking with roman numerals won't solve anything, and we'll soon have this discussion again.
We're sweeping dust under the mat.


Right now the current medal leader has "only" 147 medals. Some people want to be able to collect a virtually unlimited number of medals from certain activities. If we changed this to Arabic numerals, some people would all of a sudden have literally hundreds more medals than they currently have. There is something to be said for making conservative changes especially to one of the main avenues of recognition that this site has. If, on the other hand, we just did gold, silver, and bronze, those same people would have, in many cases, dozens less medals than they have now.

I don't understand why it seems to some people like it's such a crazy idea to allow for a modest increase in medals to recognize some folks for their contributions and achievements on this site.

qwert wrote:What wrong with you? i give mine suggestion and opinion, are these forbidden? Like i say earlier, its look that we have two opposite side here-Mods and Community, Mods want one thing and community want second thing, Now its look that new solution will be to open completely new suggestion topic with new suggestion, because you are not open for any other opinions.
But then we will have problem, because you oppose any other opinion ,no mater if these possible or not .
People need to get what they want, if someone want to win tournament like Robot, over and over again( like highlander), maybe he enjoy in these?


The Mods are part of the community and act as representatives of the community to the Admin as much as we act as representatives of the Admin to the users. Many of us are fairly active on the forum, in games, in tournaments, in clans, and in the foundry. While doing all that, we try (and sometimes can't help but) to get a feel for what the community wants. At the same time, we look at what can be done, talk the the Admins, and see which direction that they want to go. It's always a compromise of what can be done and what people want to be done given limited resources (in time, money, server space, etc.).

You're always welcome to share your opinion, but characterizing this as Mods v. Community is downright disingenuous.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:07 am
by koontz1973
My vote goes for qwert to make the 999 new medals we need for each one. ;)
So 999 for
  • Training Achievement
  • Tournament Achievement
  • General Achievement
  • Clan Achievement
  • Map Contribution
  • Tournament Contribution
  • General Contribution
So that is another 6993 medals that need to be made. At one every 10 minutes, it would take 1165 hours to do. If qwert is willing to spend that much time on this, I am willing to change my support to qwerts idea. :P

Considering when the medals first came out in "08", I very much doubt their was any inkling that players would be making 200+ tournaments, winning 200+ tournaments or making more than 30 maps.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:05 am
by greenoaks
koontz1973 wrote:My vote goes for qwert to make the 999 new medals we need for each one. ;)
So 999 for
  • Training Achievement
  • Tournament Achievement
  • General Achievement
  • Clan Achievement
  • Map Contribution
  • Tournament Contribution
  • General Contribution
So that is another 6993 medals that need to be made. At one every 10 minutes, it would take 1165 hours to do. If qwert is willing to spend that much time on this, I am willing to change my support to qwerts idea. :P

Considering when the medals first came out in "08", I very much doubt their was any inkling that players would be making 200+ tournaments, winning 200+ tournaments or making more than 30 maps.

well, i suppose if qwert is willing to put in the effort to make Arabic a success then i'll also back his change.

ps qwert. i didnt start hosting tourney when i joined the site. i got serious in May 2011 (KISS Classic)). i think most of us were here for a while before we became active which throwa out your calcs.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:35 am
by Dukasaur
qwert wrote:What wrong with you? i give mine suggestion and opinion, are these forbidden? Like i say earlier, its look that we have two opposite side here-Mods and Community, Mods want one thing and community want second thing,

Don't give me this "mods vs. community" bullshit. This isn't some kind of Marxist class warfare. The mods are part of the community just like you. And certainly the debate here has not broken down along any "mod versus non-mod" lines. Jricart who is a mod agrees with you. Greenoaks who is not a mod agrees with me. So don't try to pretend that you're a goddamn sans-culotte marching on the Bastille, because you're not.

This debate is about debauching the currency. Medals are the coin of the realm on a gaming site, and if you hand them out too easily you're poisoning the well and devaluing the efforts of everyone who worked hard for theirs.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:33 pm
by HighlanderAttack
We have less than 15 people debating on this topic. I have given my two cents earlier with my two ways I would do things. There would be no cap either way. There is either an out right medal count or an achievement level medal type like the majority of the medals in my opinion. Again, someone compile the ideas and let there be a vote. Debating about caps on virtual medals (non tangible and all in all meaningless for the most part) is always going to be a he said she said opinion thing. There is no right or wrong as everyone has their opinion. If this site wants to do what is right it would let the people vote on as many ideas that we can come up with. It would not be hard to accomplish this. If you do not do it this way, the mods basically are dictators and you will do it our way and like it kind of people.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:31 pm
by chapcrap
HighlanderAttack wrote:We have less than 15 people debating on this topic. I have given my two cents earlier with my two ways I would do things. There would be no cap either way. There is either an out right medal count or an achievement level medal type like the majority of the medals in my opinion. Again, someone compile the ideas and let there be a vote. Debating about caps on virtual medals (non tangible and all in all meaningless for the most part) is always going to be a he said she said opinion thing. There is no right or wrong as everyone has their opinion. If this site wants to do what is right it would let the people vote on as many ideas that we can come up with. It would not be hard to accomplish this. If you do not do it this way, the mods basically are dictators and you will do it our way and like it kind of people.

Mods only make suggestions to owners and programmers.

For myself, I make suggestions so that the programmer knows all sides of an argument. It's not really our choice and, historically, we aren't even aware of an update until just before release anyway. By that time, what meaningful input can be given? I'm hoping this will change in the future. However, the mods are currently, most definitely, not in charge of updates or how, when, and if they are implemented.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:53 pm
by agentcom
chapcrap wrote:
HighlanderAttack wrote:We have less than 15 people debating on this topic. I have given my two cents earlier with my two ways I would do things. There would be no cap either way. There is either an out right medal count or an achievement level medal type like the majority of the medals in my opinion. Again, someone compile the ideas and let there be a vote. Debating about caps on virtual medals (non tangible and all in all meaningless for the most part) is always going to be a he said she said opinion thing. There is no right or wrong as everyone has their opinion. If this site wants to do what is right it would let the people vote on as many ideas that we can come up with. It would not be hard to accomplish this. If you do not do it this way, the mods basically are dictators and you will do it our way and like it kind of people.

Mods only make suggestions to owners and programmers.

For myself, I make suggestions so that the programmer knows all sides of an argument. It's not really our choice and, historically, we aren't even aware of an update until just before release anyway. By that time, what meaningful input can be given? I'm hoping this will change in the future. However, the mods are currently, most definitely, not in charge of updates or how, when, and if they are implemented.


Yes. We are hoping that this will change in the (near) future. A system is being set up that allows us to facilitate the movement of information between the users and the admin via the mods. We have sort of used that for this suggestion, and I think the result has been a tentative success.

As a result of everyone's discussion, we have come back to a little bit of a middle ground between the high levels that I originally suggested and the more generous views of some of the users that have posted here. Please note that the plan is still not to award 1 medal per achievement, but to bring the levels down a little bit and hopefully make a few more people happy.

What do you guys think about a level system like the following:

Cartography:
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)

Tournament Organizing and Victories:
50 (L)
100 (C)
150 (CL)
200 (CC)

Clan Wins
40 (XL)
50 (L)
75 (LXXV)
100 (C)

This version allows for 4 additional medals per category, keeps the "good looks" of the roman numerals, adjusts the requirements to loosely track the difficulty in achieving medals, and allows for the "prestige-factor" of the leveled system.

This was not my idea, it was a combination of ideas from the users, department leaders, other moderators and the admin. But I, for one, support it.

I fully realize that we're never going to make everyone happy, but is this at least an acceptable compromise?

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:13 pm
by Dukasaur
agentcom wrote:As a result of everyone's discussion, we have come back to a little bit of a middle ground between the high levels that I originally suggested and the more generous views of some of the users that have posted here. Please note that the plan is still not to award 1 medal per achievement, but to bring the levels down a little bit and hopefully make a few more people happy.

What do you guys think about a level system like the following:

Cartography:
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)

Tournament Organizing and Victories:
50 (L)
100 (C)
150 (CL)
200 (CC)

Clan Wins
40 (XL)
50 (L)
75 (LXXV)
100 (C)

This version allows for 4 additional medals per category, keeps the "good looks" of the roman numerals, adjusts the requirements to loosely track the difficulty in achieving medals, and allows for the "prestige-factor" of the leveled system.

This was not my idea, it was a combination of ideas from the users, department leaders, other moderators and the admin. But I, for one, support it.

I fully realize that we're never going to make everyone happy, but is this at least an acceptable compromise?

I could definitely agree with this system. It accomplishes all the goals you define in the highlighted paragraph.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:06 pm
by greenoaks
although i am not in favour of increasing the cap at all - i like the 4 tiers, especially how it is weighted against hosting tournaments compared to making maps.

=D> =D> =D>

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:04 am
by benga
Limits are ridicoulous, the first cap for maps is 35 and then next is 10 maps more, wtf?

Same goes for other categories.

It's harder to get to first cap, then others.

Maps should be: 15,25,40,60
Clans:30
Tourneys:30

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:10 am
by Gillipig
agentcom wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
HighlanderAttack wrote:We have less than 15 people debating on this topic. I have given my two cents earlier with my two ways I would do things. There would be no cap either way. There is either an out right medal count or an achievement level medal type like the majority of the medals in my opinion. Again, someone compile the ideas and let there be a vote. Debating about caps on virtual medals (non tangible and all in all meaningless for the most part) is always going to be a he said she said opinion thing. There is no right or wrong as everyone has their opinion. If this site wants to do what is right it would let the people vote on as many ideas that we can come up with. It would not be hard to accomplish this. If you do not do it this way, the mods basically are dictators and you will do it our way and like it kind of people.

Mods only make suggestions to owners and programmers.

For myself, I make suggestions so that the programmer knows all sides of an argument. It's not really our choice and, historically, we aren't even aware of an update until just before release anyway. By that time, what meaningful input can be given? I'm hoping this will change in the future. However, the mods are currently, most definitely, not in charge of updates or how, when, and if they are implemented.


Yes. We are hoping that this will change in the (near) future. A system is being set up that allows us to facilitate the movement of information between the users and the admin via the mods. We have sort of used that for this suggestion, and I think the result has been a tentative success.

As a result of everyone's discussion, we have come back to a little bit of a middle ground between the high levels that I originally suggested and the more generous views of some of the users that have posted here. Please note that the plan is still not to award 1 medal per achievement, but to bring the levels down a little bit and hopefully make a few more people happy.

What do you guys think about a level system like the following:

Cartography:
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)

Tournament Organizing and Victories:
50 (L)
100 (C)
150 (CL)
200 (CC)

Clan Wins
40 (XL)
50 (L)
75 (LXXV)
100 (C)

This version allows for 4 additional medals per category, keeps the "good looks" of the roman numerals, adjusts the requirements to loosely track the difficulty in achieving medals, and allows for the "prestige-factor" of the leveled system.

This was not my idea, it was a combination of ideas from the users, department leaders, other moderators and the admin. But I, for one, support it.

I fully realize that we're never going to make everyone happy, but is this at least an acceptable compromise?

Run with it! Doesn't look like we can talk you guys into changing it to arabic numerals or a bronze, silver, gold system, so this probably a good compromise.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:08 am
by Qwert
its look that i will open mine own suggestion, because its not welcome here in these topic,and some people show (dont have word to describe these).

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:26 am
by Gillipig
qwert wrote:its look that i will open mine own suggestion, because its not welcome here in these topic,and some people show (dont have word to describe these).

We can always talk about it, but I don't think they're going to go with either Arabic numerals or a bronze, silver, gold system, so a modified roman numerals system is probably what we will get either way.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:37 am
by chapcrap
qwert wrote:its look that i will open mine own suggestion, because its not welcome here in these topic,and some people show (dont have word to describe these).

You have a different idea about raising the medal cap. We are discussing it here. Just because not everyone agrees with you does not mean your opinion isn't welcome.

Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:46 am
by koontz1973
qwert wrote:its look that i will open mine own suggestion, because its not welcome here in these topic,and some people show (dont have word to describe these).

Your suggestion is to have either bronze, silver or gold medals for all. That is seriously bad as lots of people will lose medals. How will you or the site explain to them the reason behind the reduction of medals.
As for the other one, Arabic numbers, I have already said I would support this if you want to make the 6993 medals that would be needed. This would take way to long to implement, cost to much if an artist had to be employed for it and be different enough from what we have now to cause some contention from players who like the status quo.
:D

Tournament Winner/organizer, GA, etc, Medals

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:26 am
by Armandolas
Sorry if this is posted somewhere else, but i couldnt find it

Concise description:
  • Show real number of won medals, instead of limit it to 30


How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • It will show a more accurate medal list in profile