Conquer Club

Perhaps CC should focus not on boards, but simply high quality posters. Who wouldn't want to hang a poster of their favorite map over their bed? And then, when you feel like it, you could always take down the map for redecoration and relocation to your table for a while.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:Perhaps CC should focus not on boards, but simply high quality posters. Who wouldn't want to hang a poster of their favorite map over their bed? And then, when you feel like it, you could always take down the map for redecoration and relocation to your table for a while.


--Andy

You won't hear me complain about a dual purpose map.

AndyDufresne wrote:Perhaps CC should focus not on boards, but simply high quality posters. Who wouldn't want to hang a poster of their favorite map over their bed? And then, when you feel like it, you could always take down the map for redecoration and relocation to your table for a while.


--Andy

Yes, I think there is always a way to get the map sold legally.

It sounds like the real issue is more of a graphics thing... Could the foundry ask the map makers to create a game board quality image along with the small and large?

For what is worth, if a player ask me if he can print one of my map to play on it with friends, I have zero problem to give him the permission. And i think it's the same for all the other mapmakers, i think.
I draw maps because I like to draw maps, it's not for money.

Rather, if the player has a bit of patience and he doesn't set a deadline, I would produce an high quality image to send to him. Then he is free to do what he wants with the image apart make profit or give it to someone else without ask.

Said that, I don't think people here is referring to one of my maps

thenobodies80 wrote:For what is worth, if a player ask me if he can print one of my map to play on it with friends, I have zero problem to give him the permission. And i think it's the same for all the other mapmakers, i think.
I draw maps because I like to draw maps, it's not for money.

Rather, if the player has a bit of patience and he doesn't set a deadline, I would produce an high quality image to send to him. Then he is free to do what he wants with the image apart make profit or give it to someone else without ask.

Said that, I don't think people here is referring to one of my maps

What do you think of asking mapmakers to provide such an image when their map is quenched?

If the map images can be provided in a vector format or other scalable image file, I can get them printed pretty cheap. My father-in-law is a photographer, and has the ability to print pretty large in-house, and can farm out large images cheaply.

He can make fathead-type vinyl cutouts also - that would be cool for a "poster" as well as a "game board" that could be stuck directly to the kitchen table. They are removable and repositionable ad infinitum. No more flipping the board over when you get mad, you'd have to flip the whole table!

chapcrap wrote:

thenobodies80 wrote:For what is worth, if a player ask me if he can print one of my map to play on it with friends, I have zero problem to give him the permission. And i think it's the same for all the other mapmakers, i think.
I draw maps because I like to draw maps, it's not for money.

Rather, if the player has a bit of patience and he doesn't set a deadline, I would produce an high quality image to send to him. Then he is free to do what he wants with the image apart make profit or give it to someone else without ask.

Said that, I don't think people here is referring to one of my maps

What do you think of asking mapmakers to provide such an image when their map is quenched?

i would be in favour of that.

i think it was natty that said a lot of quality is lost because the file size is so small.

thenobodies80 wrote:For what is worth, if a player ask me if he can print one of my map to play on it with friends, I have zero problem to give him the permission. And i think it's the same for all the other mapmakers, i think.
I draw maps because I like to draw maps, it's not for money.

Rather, if the player has a bit of patience and he doesn't set a deadline, I would produce an high quality image to send to him. Then he is free to do what he wants with the image apart make profit or give it to someone else without ask.

Said that, I don't think people here is referring to one of my maps

You are what I like to call a "generous person" thenobodies and I think it's awesome that you would be so gracious. Incidentally, I would certainly consider some of your maps for this purpose.

72o wrote:If the map images can be provided in a vector format or other scalable image file, I can get them printed pretty cheap. My father-in-law is a photographer, and has the ability to print pretty large in-house, and can farm out large images cheaply.

He can make fathead-type vinyl cutouts also - that would be cool for a "poster" as well as a "game board" that could be stuck directly to the kitchen table. They are removable and repositionable ad infinitum. No more flipping the board over when you get mad, you'd have to flip the whole table!

Rofl at having to flip the whole table.
Sounds like a very good resource you've got there, 72o. I'm envious.

If someone will give me a photoshop or vector image of their map file I'll get a prototype made. I will make them at cost, I don't need to make any money off of it. I'd just like to help.

AndyDufresne wrote:Perhaps CC should focus not on boards, but simply high quality posters. Who wouldn't want to hang a poster of their favorite map over their bed? And then, when you feel like it, you could always take down the map for redecoration and relocation to your table for a while.


--Andy

High quality laminated posters would be the best way around copyrights.

thenobodies80 wrote:For what is worth, if a player ask me if he can print one of my map to play on it with friends, I have zero problem to give him the permission. And i think it's the same for all the other mapmakers, i think.
I draw maps because I like to draw maps, it's not for money.

Rather, if the player has a bit of patience and he doesn't set a deadline, I would produce an high quality image to send to him. Then he is free to do what he wants with the image apart make profit or give it to someone else without ask.

Said that, I don't think people here is referring to one of my maps

Same here. Give me some time and I can get a map made large enough for printing without the pretty graphics.

chapcrap wrote:What do you think of asking mapmakers to provide such an image when their map is quenched?

Its hard enough to get map makers to do some things now. I very much doubt you will get many saying yes to this.

greenoaks wrote:i would be in favour of that.
i think it was natty that said a lot of quality is lost because the file size is so small.

The site compresses our larger files. If you want any of mine, grab the file from the thread as that has not been compressed yet.

72o wrote:If someone will give me a photoshop or vector image of their map file I'll get a prototype made. I will make them at cost, I don't need to make any money off of it. I'd just like to help.

This is what I did. The main problem is text. Enlarging the text to a size that is good makes it unreadable. The maps would need to be redrawn larger, more simplistic and without the legend. This is why I chose to test on Jakarta as it has very little text. But on A3 it is playable and as long as you stick to 1v1 games, it works OK.

chapcrap wrote:What do you think of asking mapmakers to provide such an image when their map is quenched?

I don't know if everyone is willing to draw an high quality version, specially if you consider that develop a map is already a challenging task.
We already ask to mapmakers to develop 2 different map size so probably I wouldn't feel so good in adding de facto another version. Moreover a map quenched doesn't mean that there's automatically request for a printable HQ version by the users of this site.
I don't mind to do another version, but I can't speak for the others (few) mapmakers on this site. A thing is when you have to draw a map and you already know that when uploaded, it will be compressed to an absurd level and many details that cost us hours of work will be lost, and another thing is draw an HQ image, where the details don't get lost, so you need to be extremely picky during the development. It takes hours, additional hours of work...many hours.

So I'm extremely prudent in saying that everyone here is willing to do that for each map.

Instead, if we want to make it a procedure and the site can make a profit from it, the thing is different. As said, I don't mind to give to someone the permission to use my images to play with friends, but allow the site to make profit with my hard work is different.
Now before you say to me that the site already makes money with our maps, I would like to remind that we already receive our reward for producing maps and we receive it as soon as the map is uploaded, yeah it's just some free conquer credits and not real money...but who cares? It's always a reward, altought I do NOT suggest to anyone to draw a map just for that, make maps is a passion, something you need to love...credits are just an incentive. I prefer 1000 times more to receive a good feedback from players than the credits. I think it's a sort of "artist inside" (sorry intel ) thing. We love when people like our creations....that's enough.
But I digress

If the site wants to create a such business i think that mapamkers would like to discuss some details with the admins. I think it's a step to follow before to set any type or requirement or request. Certainly it will make the thing more interesting but i still think not everyone will do that.

Now, I've read your question again and I have some additional thoughts:
- Our Dept. has the primary role to facilitate the map production, not make it harder.
- Our Dept. follow the maps from the moment they are posted in the drafting room to the moment they are quenched.
- The map agreement all mapmakers "sign" at least once, is between the CC Site and the CC user, the CAs have no role here.
- The current map agreement allows CC to use the imagery free of charge , as long as CC sees fit, on the CC website. (Note: Important it says on the CC website)

So, honestly...if CC wants to have HQ images from mapmakers to sell them, i think it's an admin duty to find out the possible best maps for this business, approach the mapmakers and deal with them. It's a thing between CC and the mapmakers...CAs have nothing to do with that imo. So I don't see how it should be an additional request to add to the current process. If there's demand for a such thing, if the site sees it as a good business then the site needs to find a way to create a such business without ask to volunteers. As said CC<->Mapmaker. (like it is with the other stuff with maps on it)
Add the step is only detrimental to the process and have less people who draw maps is not what we want, specially now that we are so few. When you start the map, in the moment you draw your first pixel, you know that you will spend the next 6-9 months on that project. And we're talking about non-HQ maps! Imagine how many would quit if I add a such request!

But probably I'm becoming boring and this post is too long...so before to click "submit" and have a long shower after a hard day of work, let me say that I'm happy to volunteer for CC, I'm happy to help mapmakers...but I want to have nothing to do with stuff related with zazzle or with money or other site, at least as foundry foreman. That's not my job here.

Nobodies

thenobodies80 hits it right on the head for the most part I'd say. I've always believed (and tried to impart as I exit soon), Volunteers should focus on the Community, and shouldn't be a part of worrying about the bottom line of CC or strategizing expansion into new revenue streams. Volunteers are here to serve and be a part of the Community, and that should definitely be their primary function.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:thenobodies80 hits it right on the head for the most part I'd say. I've always believed (and tried to impart as I exit soon), Volunteers should focus on the Community, and shouldn't be a part of worrying about the bottom line of CC or strategizing expansion into new revenue streams. Volunteers are here to serve and be a part of the Community, and that should definitely be their primary function.


--Andy

But the community wants some awesome maps for the table at home!!

AndyDufresne wrote:thenobodies80 hits it right on the head for the most part I'd say. I've always believed (and tried to impart as I exit soon), Volunteers should focus on the Community, and shouldn't be a part of worrying about the bottom line of CC or strategizing expansion into new revenue streams. Volunteers are here to serve and be a part of the Community, and that should definitely be their primary function.


--Andy

and the community doesn't want CC to go bellyup.

a small income stream here, a small income stream there. these things add up to a vibrant site for all.

Couple thoughts:

Even if some mapmakers would be willing to give away their stuff for free, I think that if CC is going to make some money off of it, the mapmakers should get their beaks wet.

I like the idea of posters. That's what I was getting at at first. I can't see any way that anyone (at least in the U.S.) could prevent you from selling your artwork, which is what that is.

Last thing, I went back and found DiM's HQ image of All Your Base Are Belong to Us ... I believe it's actually in that map thread, too. (He was complaining about it being compressed by the site.) Even his "HQ" image was illegible when you blow it up. The mapmakers would really have to go over the map again and re-insert text. I don't like the idea of removing the legends and keys from the map. If they want it to look good, they should probably re-do the borders and all the other small details that will get blurry when expanded. Those seem to me to be an essential feature. But if this was done those would need to be rewritten. That's fine if the mapmakers want to do it, but it's all the more reason that they should share in any profits.

agentcom wrote:Couple thoughts:

Even if some mapmakers would be willing to give away their stuff for free, I think that if CC is going to make some money off of it, the mapmakers should get their beaks wet.

I like the idea of posters. That's what I was getting at at first. I can't see any way that anyone (at least in the U.S.) could prevent you from selling your artwork, which is what that is.

Last thing, I went back and found DiM's HQ image of All Your Base Are Belong to Us ... I believe it's actually in that map thread, too. (He was complaining about it being compressed by the site.) Even his "HQ" image was illegible when you blow it up. The mapmakers would really have to go over the map again and re-insert text. I don't like the idea of removing the legends and keys from the map. If they want it to look good, they should probably re-do the borders and all the other small details that will get blurry when expanded. Those seem to me to be an essential feature. But if this was done those would need to be rewritten. That's fine if the mapmakers want to do it, but it's all the more reason that they should share in any profits.

I agree that even if they are very selfless individuals they should get a cut, however small. Maybe free membership if a certain number of their maps were sold? Not everyone is interested in getting a little money for every map sold but I think it's safe to say that everyone would be interested in some free premium, even if it's a month for every 10 maps sold or something like that.
I think that if a program like this was successful it would even ultimately raise the bar as far as maps were concerned since how a map will be received would most likely hold more weight in their production. People like quality maps. More quality= more players wanting to buy it= more premium.

And simple rules of economics or even human nature will tell you that if people are willing to pay for something, you will see more of that thing produced. This could increase the number of mapmakers on the site.

Flip side of that is that mapmakers could spend more of their time working on their HQ images of existing maps and increase the time it takes to make a new map (because they will want to make a HQ version). This may lead to less maps being developed.

I'm not sure how that would play out. I'm also not sure which is better: an increase in the number of maps that are out there or an increase in the availability of these maps for sale.

agentcom wrote:And simple rules of economics or even human nature will tell you that if people are willing to pay for something, you will see more of that thing produced. This could increase the number of mapmakers on the site.

Flip side of that is that mapmakers could spend more of their time working on their HQ images of existing maps and increase the time it takes to make a new map (because they will want to make a HQ version). This may lead to less maps being developed.

I'm not sure how that would play out. I'm also not sure which is better: an increase in the number of maps that are out there or an increase in the availability of these maps for sale.

I myself believe that quality is generally more desired than quantity by the CC population. There are tons of maps out there but if you look on the games waiting list you might see a dozen maps that turn up over and over again instead of an even distribution. This leads me to believe that well-thought out/unique maps (the ones that take longer to produce) are what the community craves more.

we dont need more maps

greenoaks wrote:we dont need more maps

Or maybe we need only to start to make a different type of maps (e.g. Done to fit particular types of games) and start to cut the ones nobody play.

Anyway i think we're going off topic

thenobodies80 wrote:

greenoaks wrote:we dont need more maps

Or maybe we need only to start to make a different type of maps (e.g. Done to fit particular types of games) and start to cut the ones nobody play.

Anyway i think we're going off topic

I think you're right.

Another option I thought of was to not just have the maps for sale through the site as a finished product but to have a download option that splits the map up into several 8X12 pieces. The download could be a nominal cost and the person who buys the image does all the work (taping, laminating, etc.). This was my thought in the beginning but now that we have discussed it further I would much rather have one already made by a professional. It depends on the individual though I suppose. Some people would rather do the work to save some money while others would rather pay for a nice finished product.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=181930

Enjoy.

koontz1973 wrote:http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=181930

Enjoy.

That's pretty freakin' cool.

Thanks, koontz!

This has been a great idea for years: viewtopic.php?f=471&t=42423

chapcrap wrote:This has been a great idea for years: viewtopic.php?f=471&t=42423

So I have been thinking about this and wouldn't it be more expedient to just do my original idea which was to have the option to download(for a fee?) a multiple page map image that you print out on your own computer? Having the site have to find all the necessary subcontractors to produce finished, marketable maps seems like it would delay the process quite a bit.