IcePack wrote:I don’t think most consider it cheating, I would say most agree it’s poor sportsmanship etc
It's cheating in it's purest form. Missing your turn with 5 cards in escalating or not taking your 5th spoil in zombie/nuclear when you don't like the ones you have in hand is totally cheating. You cannot minimize the impact on the outcome of a game to do such things that would never happen in a real life game.
Best and most clear-cut summation so far!
Thank god for DoomYoshi and his indexed archives! The site should erect a monument to this guy.
IcePack wrote:As I said I don’t use the tactic so the change doesn’t bother me, but let’s be honest about it at least and not outright lie. You might feel it’s a bug or cheating, but it’s never been looked at that way by the site and it’s definitely not a bug.
I won't mince words just to be politic. It is cheating. It subverts the intent of nuclear games, and allows people to escape risks that are inherent in the setting, thus granting themselves an unfair advantage. Anything that allows you to grant yourself an unfair advantage is pretty much what cheating is, in my book. If you want to play word games and call it something else, go ahead.
As far as being a bug, maybe it was originally not so. It is now. It's a sloppy solution to a programming problem that once served a purpose and should have been removed when the need was gone.
PSU 86 wrote:
Casinos in Vegas allow you to continue to play cards if the dealer accidentally showed his hidden cards. You are legally permitted to count cards in Vegas too. The player is allowed to do whatever is in their advantage to win as long as it does not violate the house rules.
That's a bit of disingenuous comment. Counting cards is not illegal because it's impossible to prove, unless you're using some kind of mechanical device. If you're only using your brain, it can't be proven, and there's no point making a rule about something that can't be proven. Nonetheless, if you're suspected of counting cards you'll be banned from the casino.https://www.casino.org/blog/how-do-casinos-spot-and-catch-card-counters/
What Happens if You are Caught?
It’s important to remember that card counting in blackjack isn’t illegal. However, casinos have the right to refuse service to anyone they please, and a number of things are likely to happen if you are pegged as a counter. First, you may just be “asked” to quit playing blackjack or to leave the casino. However, depending on the degree of wrongdoing, the casino could also just outright ban you from the premises.
There's a lot of things in life that aren't technically illegal but are still cheating. When you wake up in the morning and you know you have to shit, but you hold it back until you get to work so you can waste your employer's time instead of your own, that's not illegal but it's still a scumbag move. Do it once in a while and nobody cares, but the guys who do it day after day after day are soon identified as cheaters and they'll be gotten rid of at the earliest opportunity.
morleyjoe wrote:Yes. You take a territory, you get a card. Period.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:Why? It should be across the board. You can't just attack, walk away for an hour, come back and say "Gee, guess I won't take a card".
If the system is being used to take advantage of something, then it's considered unhealthy. Doesn't have to apply to Zombie or Nuclear.
Take Mrswdk's comment (that I cannot find for the life of me): "I don't take a card for a bonus unless it's worth the troop count", or something similar along those lines. I could be imagining it, but that's kind of the same bullshit I'm talking about.
You don't want a card? Don't attack and conquer. That simple. The rules should reflect every setting, not just two because it's more of problem there compared to flat/escalating.
I agree. It really is that simple.
betiko wrote: IcePack wrote:
morleyjoe wrote:It should apply to all games. And it is at a 87% yes result currently in the poll.
Its only 50% for all games
and 87% agree to change the current system at least for casual games. Too bad there is no poll option for my position which is between these two.
CatchersMitt14 wrote:I take issue with the poll. You don’t know where those conditional votes would land if was a yes/no decision.
It's hard enough to get a meaningful sample size to show up for a poll without excessively complicating it. I tried to boil it down to the simplest form that would still be meaningful.
PSU 86 wrote:Hopefully the administrators will take the input from this poll (and other CC polls) with a grain of salt. These polls are very unscientific and do not necessarily reflect the entire CC family that exists today.
Lets imagine , hypothetically, that half of the players on CC like how the rule is now and exploit the fact that they can not take a card if they so choose. Also imagine that the other half of all CC players do not like the rule as it exists today, and despise when their opponent exploits the rule in an attempt to not have to nuke themselves.
Now, ask yourself: WHO in CC will reply to the request "Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?"
It is quite possible that the latter half (those who do not like the rule as it exists today) would be more fired up about it to respond here in this forum. It is also quite possible that the former half (those who like the rule and exploit it) are not that charged up about the subject, and wouldnt take the time to respond.
Unscientific the poll may be, but the sample size is good for the population. Are people who want this changed finally fired up? Yes! We've been getting screwed for years, and I know a lot of people who have been seriously pissed when someone did this and won a game unfairly this way. I can't say how many people have asked me "how come this has never been fixed" but it's dozens, at least.
A similar poll in 2012 yeilded similar results, but wasn't acted upon. Here we are five years later, and we're mad as hell and not going to take it any more!
demonfork wrote:What other game in the wold of real life combat/war situation requires this?
If you play tabletop Risk, if you take a territory on your turn you get a card.
If you play Monopoly, if you land on Community Chest you get a card.
If you play the Game of Life and land on a Job Search square you draw three career cards.
These things are not negotiable. They are a core part of the game.
I'm encouraged that most people agree. Maybe there is hope for humanity.
Wizz00 wrote: IcePack wrote:
Hooch wrote:So aside from clan games it is completely acceptable to do this, excluding questions of fair play?
Correct. Its a long debated topic but currently other than someone complaining or saying it’s cheap tactics, it’s perfectly within the rules to do so
It’s only within the rules because the code is written that way. Go back to basics - imagine sitting round a table and trying to employ these tactics. Blatant cheating.