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Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

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Should the loophole be closed?

Poll ended at Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:38 am

Yes, for all games
115
58%
Yes, but only for 24-hour games, not for speed
62
31%
No, leave it
21
11%
 
Total votes : 198

Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:41 am

I don’t think most consider it cheating, I would say most agree it’s poor sportsmanship etc
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby betiko on Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:02 am

Dukasaur wrote:
Hooch wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Hooch wrote:Not something I do, and I dislike, but long answer, no, until the ruling on it is changed and I will put forward it is more likely people card dodging than power cuts, leave it as is.


I'm not sure what you mean "until the ruling on it is changed". That's exactly the point of this thread, discussing whether or not the ruling should be changed.

In so far as it is illegal, not whether it should be a forced card down ones throat.

Clearly at present aside from clan games it is perfectly acceptable to dodge cards.

1) Why does this differ?
2) If it was or is an issue why isn't it punished?

Yes forcing a card on players saves someone/no one having to look into every accusation which at present isn't needed.


--------------
Duk at present maybe 120 people may vote on this, is that a mandate?
Again, I like the idea but think it should be across 'all' forms of the game and if it is deemed required I'd prefer it was actually spelt out as foul play otherwise leave it be.


I'm not sure if I understand your question. Most people do consider it foul play, but there's no actual rule against it.

There's no rule for two reasons. One, this cheat is common enough that it would clog the C&A board if we started actioning it. The C&A mods are just volunteers with finite time like the rest of us. Furthermore, C&A requires people to bring forth complaints. The majority of players don't take the time to read the logs after a game. It is quite likely someone has cheated you out of a game in this manner and you didn't even notice. Rules which require manual enforcement are going to be rarely and inconsistently enforced. The only way to have a rule consistently and reliably enforced is to make it built-in to the actual game mechanics.

The second reason, as I said in the OP, is historical. Speed games used to be a huge part of this site, and in speed games, especially freestyle speed, leaving yourself enough time to end your turn normally and get a card was part of the challenge..


here would be my ruling:

1) a player missing his turn in an escalating game WITH 5 CARDS IN HAND: his trade will hold the same value it had when he was forced to trade (let's call it N) all the following players get the trade they deserve. N+1, N+2 etc... the player who missed gets his deserved N, then his trades go back to normal wherever the escalating count is. If another player kills him, the first trade he gets midturn from that kill should be N i guess. This rule would be only for misses with 5 cards in hand in escalating. This is a common foul play that needs to end. Some might not miss on purpose, this rule seems fair for everybody.

2) in flat rate or escalating (spoils with benefits) not pressing end turn results in a spoil loss.
I would say except in team / poly games. That is for really advanced players who know what i m talking about... let s say a player is about to get killed... you might want to make a strategical attack but don t want to take the spoil so that the next opponent doesn t kill and cash mid turn...

3) in zombie or nuclear (spoils with double edge). Who has never used a safe spot... then ends up with a double pair... not knowing if the next spoil will make you nuke your stack? It's totally foul play to go break a bonus and not take your next spoil... that is a total exploitation of a loophole. Taking a tert in those games should give you an automatic spoil wether you end turn or not.


There. I think this covers all type of intentional turn or spoil miss that people exploit.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby betiko on Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:06 am

IcePack wrote:I don’t think most consider it cheating, I would say most agree it’s poor sportsmanship etc


It's cheating in it's purest form. Missing your turn with 5 cards in escalating or not taking your 5th spoil in zombie/nuclear when you don't like the ones you have in hand is totally cheating. You cannot minimize the impact on the outcome of a game to do such things that would never happen in a real life game.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Ukey on Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:14 pm

In my view, the real problem isn't whether it is cheating, or bad sportsmanship, or simply another acceptable tactic. The issue is that not all players are using a uniform set of guidelines. I agree that the spirit of nukes and zombies is violated when players conquer a territory but purposefully avoid taking a spoil. For some of the same reasons that regulations and the government exist in the real world, this loophole should be closed.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby ltcomdata on Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:19 pm

"This is about people who take their turn, but do not end it, so that they don't get a card."

WELL!! I was completely unaware that this bug existed within CC.
I might have inadvertently not gotten rewarded in the past with a spoil because I sometimes forget to END my turn.
My assumption always was that even if that happened, I would get a spoil because I had conquered a province.

This is not a "loophole". It is a downright bug.

Most certainly, fix the bug!
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:02 pm

betiko wrote:
IcePack wrote:I don’t think most consider it cheating, I would say most agree it’s poor sportsmanship etc


It's cheating in it's purest form. Missing your turn with 5 cards in escalating or not taking your 5th spoil in zombie/nuclear when you don't like the ones you have in hand is totally cheating. You cannot minimize the impact on the outcome of a game to do such things that would never happen in a real life game.


To say it’s cheating, or a bug, or a loop hole is wrong. Sorry but that’s the truth. It was designed that way, and never changed even when it was brought up. This wasn’t some oversight that accidentally went thru and ever fixed.

To say it’s only cuz speeders were more popular before is BS. It’s just as easy then to code the change for 24 hour games as it is now.

The difference is, some people want the change and now the owner is willing to listen to what the people want if there’s support. So the people who want the change are looking for it.

As I said I don’t use the tactic so the change doesn’t bother me, but let’s be honest about it at least and not outright lie. You might feel it’s a bug or cheating, but it’s never been looked at that way by the site and it’s definitely not a bug.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby robellis00 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:17 pm

Great discussion everyone, and I agree this 'tactic' should be shut down by changing the rule, closing the loophole, writing the code, etc.

If you go back to what this community is all about, it is about playing Risk-type games but on an incredibly bigger and better scale.

If we are honest to ourselves, and honest to the spirit of the game, this potentiality would not exist. When you take a terit, you earn a card. When I play Risk with my son, when someone takes a terit, then at the end of their turn they get a card. I don't have to sit there and wait an hour for my turn to time out, then I 'magically' miss getting my card. That's crap. Like I said, if we are honest with ourselves we will make the rules reflect what is right.

Timing out your turn to skip getting a card is abusing the system, and not living up to the spirit of the game.

Close the loophole! The people have spoken.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby josko.ri on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:46 pm

It seems I am minority who supports to leave it as it is, Given that in my opinion it is only additional strategic option, not cheating in any way.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:56 pm

I have always thought it was stupid logic and do consider it a bug that the listed rules do not mention this issue. But it's been there forever and changing it now would, I think, be a bad idea given how much people have come to expect it as part of their game play.

Lack originally intended it to be this way so that people would actually end their turns, rather than letting the turn time out, with the idea that it was a punishment for players to not get a card, and it's a bad thing if people just never end their turns because it means the game slows down. (This was way back in the ancient days before there was a one-hour limit on turns.) Since it is clearly not the case that it's always a punishment to not get a card, I consider this reasoning flawed.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Mad777 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:22 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:I have always thought it was stupid logic and do consider it a bug that the listed rules do not mention this issue. But it's been there forever and changing it now would, I think, be a bad idea given how much people have come to expect it as part of their game play.

This is not something "you expect", what player do expect is getting a spoil after a successfull attack, player who expect not receiving a spoil expect to have enough other game to play so they can let that one running out of time and therefore not really bother about the fact they found a way to go around the game spirit.

Lack originally intended it to be this way so that people would actually end their turns, rather than letting the turn time out, with the idea that it was a punishment for players to not get a card, and it's a bad thing if people just never end their turns because it means the game slows down. (This was way back in the ancient days before there was a one-hour limit on turns.) Since it is clearly not the case that it's always a punishment to not get a card, I consider this reasoning flawed.

It is still an hour turn today ;) , and not sure where is the punishement giving a card to someone? Again, if no card are wonder then 2 things, play no spoils game or do not conquer a territory....very simple right? 8-)
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:43 pm

Ok, there's a lot of accusations flying about the original intent.

Before I begin, I must preface by saying that this suggestion has already been SUBMITTED!
Here is the original submission:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=188165&start=150#p4306685

The Submitted subforum of Suggestions no longer exists due to a Team CC restructuring and a healthy dose of reality (it wasn't really used properly anyway).

From that thread, here's lackattack:
lackattack wrote:The original reasoning behind losing a card was to encourage people to click "End Fortifications" when they are done. This was a bigger issue before we had a 1-hour turn limit. Nonetheless, I have yet to see a large majority of people wanting to change it. Except for this poll whose wording is so biased the results are quite meaningless.


Here's the only other time that lackattack really mentioned this problem at all:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=155
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Swifte on Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:44 pm

I'm on board for a change to the current situation.

I don't have strong feelings about either:
A) Forcing a card into someone's hand.
or B) adding a 'End and Skip Spoil' button.

Either case it's more fair and obvious to all what is intended and possible.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Hooch on Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:47 pm

betiko wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Hooch wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Hooch wrote:Not something I do, and I dislike, but long answer, no, until the ruling on it is changed and I will put forward it is more likely people card dodging than power cuts, leave it as is.


I'm not sure what you mean "until the ruling on it is changed". That's exactly the point of this thread, discussing whether or not the ruling should be changed.

In so far as it is illegal, not whether it should be a forced card down ones throat.

Clearly at present aside from clan games it is perfectly acceptable to dodge cards.

1) Why does this differ?
2) If it was or is an issue why isn't it punished?

Yes forcing a card on players saves someone/no one having to look into every accusation which at present isn't needed.



--------------
Duk at present maybe 120 people may vote on this, is that a mandate?
Again, I like the idea but think it should be across 'all' forms of the game and if it is deemed required I'd prefer it was actually spelt out as foul play otherwise leave it be.


I'm not sure if I understand your question. Most people do consider it foul play, but there's no actual rule against it.

There's no rule for two reasons. One, this cheat is common enough that it would clog the C&A board if we started actioning it. The C&A mods are just volunteers with finite time like the rest of us. Furthermore, C&A requires people to bring forth complaints. The majority of players don't take the time to read the logs after a game. It is quite likely someone has cheated you out of a game in this manner and you didn't even notice. Rules which require manual enforcement are going to be rarely and inconsistently enforced. The only way to have a rule consistently and reliably enforced is to make it built-in to the actual game mechanics.

The second reason, as I said in the OP, is historical. Speed games used to be a huge part of this site, and in speed games, especially freestyle speed, leaving yourself enough time to end your turn normally and get a card was part of the challenge..


here would be my ruling:

1) a player missing his turn in an escalating game WITH 5 CARDS IN HAND: his trade will hold the same value it had when he was forced to trade (let's call it N) all the following players get the trade they deserve. N+1, N+2 etc... the player who missed gets his deserved N, then his trades go back to normal wherever the escalating count is. If another player kills him, the first trade he gets midturn from that kill should be N i guess. This rule would be only for misses with 5 cards in hand in escalating. This is a common foul play that needs to end. Some might not miss on purpose, this rule seems fair for everybody.

2) in flat rate or escalating (spoils with benefits) not pressing end turn results in a spoil loss.
I would say except in team / poly games. That is for really advanced players who know what i m talking about... let s say a player is about to get killed... you might want to make a strategical attack but don t want to take the spoil so that the next opponent doesn t kill and cash mid turn...

3) in zombie or nuclear (spoils with double edge). Who has never used a safe spot... then ends up with a double pair... not knowing if the next spoil will make you nuke your stack? It's totally foul play to go break a bonus and not take your next spoil... that is a total exploitation of a loophole. Taking a tert in those games should give you an automatic spoil wether you end turn or not.


There. I think this covers all type of intentional turn or spoil miss that people exploit.

Betiko gets it.
--------------
Yes Duk I realise what you say about volunteers and limited time, and all the times that CA reports would be put forward but there aren't a flood of spurious reports to check because it isn't illegal, until so let whomever play it as it is or give whomever a telling off.

As my question of mandate, presumably we have 6000 or so people playing, maybe 120 will vote on this poll, a small sample, would that be enough to decide for a change in game settings?
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:51 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Ok, there's a lot of accusations flying about the original intent.

Before I begin, I must preface by saying that this suggestion has already been SUBMITTED!
Here is the original submission:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=188165&start=150#p4306685

The Submitted subforum of Suggestions no longer exists due to a Team CC restructuring and a healthy dose of reality (it wasn't really used properly anyway).


If you read earlier in that thread, you'll note that "submitted" in this case did not mean "the Suggestions mods intend for this to become reality," it meant "enough people are asking for it that it warrants a proper discussion and final decision by the admins."
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Silly Knig-it on Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:16 pm

I have had this happen to me several times over the years. Always, because RL interfered with my playing and I had to walk away from the computer for several hours. I may be dense but I fail to see how this could benefit me. I would always love to take a spoil but this rule has caught me a number of times. I would be in favor of anything that caused me to get the spoil rather than losing it.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby PSU 86 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:57 pm

Calling this a "timing*out loophole" is acceptable in my opinion. However, referring to it as "cheating" is irresponsible, biased and incorrect. Dictionary.com defines cheating as "to violate rules or regulations:
He cheats at cards."
No rules are being violated! CC is asking to change the rules and that is ok to ask.

Casinos in Vegas allow you to continue to play cards if the dealer accidentally showed his hidden cards. You are legally permitted to count cards in Vegas too. The player is allowed to do whatever is in their advantage to win as long as it does not violate the house rules.

There is no rule banning a player from purposely letting his or her turn finish out with out taking spoils.
Putting this up to a vote to change the rules is ok. Calling it "cheating" is poorly worded.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby EBConquer on Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:22 am

I haven't read anything here except the OP. I think that if you take a tert and time out... then the system should automatically give you a card regardless whatever else happens. Then it's beneficial because you don't have to sit there for 57 minutes looking like a jack-nozzle w/ everybody looking at you knowing that you're a turd bending the rules.

I mean come'on... how many times have you been playing w/ your buddies in RL then gary falls asleep after making a run. wakes up and refuses a card due to his untimely timeout. Let's get real. Kill a territory, take a card. very simple.

On the other hand. The system lets you do that though i don't think it was intentional at the get go. Now it's just a loop hole that people exploit because it's there. is it cheating? no. is it lame? yeah, you're a douche. Change the code to the way it was originally supposed to be.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby betiko on Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:26 am

josko.ri wrote:It seems I am minority who supports to leave it as it is, Given that in my opinion it is only additional strategic option, not cheating in any way.


How is that an extra strategic option? It's just foul play. i ve already been in the situation where i had my stack on a nuke i had in hand... an opponent had some undefended bonuses because he knew i was not in a position to take the next card... if i attack and don t take my spoil i m ruining his strategy using a loophole...

Or in a big multiplayer escalating... no one wants to be the sucker forced to take the first trades.... someone taking the 5th to snake his opponents by then missing the next turn isn't using what i call strategy...
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby betiko on Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:31 am

Hooch wrote:
betiko wrote:
here would be my ruling:

1) a player missing his turn in an escalating game WITH 5 CARDS IN HAND: his trade will hold the same value it had when he was forced to trade (let's call it N) all the following players get the trade they deserve. N+1, N+2 etc... the player who missed gets his deserved N, then his trades go back to normal wherever the escalating count is. If another player kills him, the first trade he gets midturn from that kill should be N i guess. This rule would be only for misses with 5 cards in hand in escalating. This is a common foul play that needs to end. Some might not miss on purpose, this rule seems fair for everybody.

2) in flat rate or escalating (spoils with benefits) not pressing end turn results in a spoil loss.
I would say except in team / poly games. That is for really advanced players who know what i m talking about... let s say a player is about to get killed... you might want to make a strategical attack but don t want to take the spoil so that the next opponent doesn t kill and cash mid turn...

3) in zombie or nuclear (spoils with double edge). Who has never used a safe spot... then ends up with a double pair... not knowing if the next spoil will make you nuke your stack? It's totally foul play to go break a bonus and not take your next spoil... that is a total exploitation of a loophole. Taking a tert in those games should give you an automatic spoil wether you end turn or not.


There. I think this covers all type of intentional turn or spoil miss that people exploit.

Betiko gets it.
--------------
Yes Duk I realise what you say about volunteers and limited time, and all the times that CA reports would be put forward but there aren't a flood of spurious reports to check because it isn't illegal, until so let whomever play it as it is or give whomever a telling off.

As my question of mandate, presumably we have 6000 or so people playing, maybe 120 will vote on this poll, a small sample, would that be enough to decide for a change in game settings?


Thanks, unfortunately, it seems like you re the only one who's read it.
Given my stance, I cannot answer duka's poll because I don't think he is adressing the problem correctly.
This isn't about speed vs casual games. This is about ruling the 2 families of spoil types.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Mad777 on Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:43 am

I don't see why spoil type should have a different treatment, doesn't matter what some player found to be the best scenario receiving a crad or not the bottom line is that you conquer a territory - you get a card, there is a No Spoil setting for those who don't want to get a card.
All those "strategy" around a coding that has never been updated is against the spirit of the RISK game, if this suggestion pass the cut some player may found harder to win a game without being help by the game coding and more about how to escape a possible trap by trading cards...in this suggestion there isn't much room for grey area, either we allow the timing out or not and for all type of spoil.
The OP has been made in such a way to not let any "grey" zone...
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby betiko on Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:29 am

Mad777 wrote:I don't see why spoil type should have a different treatment, doesn't matter what some player found to be the best scenario receiving a crad or not the bottom line is that you conquer a territory - you get a card, there is a No Spoil setting for those who don't want to get a card.
All those "strategy" around a coding that has never been updated is against the spirit of the RISK game, if this suggestion pass the cut some player may found harder to win a game without being help by the game coding and more about how to escape a possible trap by trading cards...in this suggestion there isn't much room for grey area, either we allow the timing out or not and for all type of spoil.
The OP has been made in such a way to not let any "grey" zone...


looks like you either don't read me, or don't try to understand what you read... or just don't understand how this game works.
I know it's one of the first two, as it often happens with you... and I've seen you doing it in this thread to others ;)

So let me rephrase, and I hope you'll give it a thought before replying this time
You cannot treat every type of settings the same way... In some cases, the essence of a setting is to collect as much spoils as possible; in some it's to avoid spoils in certain situations. In some very fast speed game settings, the whole strategy is to make your opponent run out of time so he doesn't collect his spoil.... And this type of setting is enjoyed by many, and is not illegit. It deserves to still be playable. I've also seen players taking the whole damn hour to take their turn. Why would they deserve the spoil if they take over an hour in a flat/escalating game? There is not 1 patch for everything. You need different remedies.

The OP is not enough specific. This can't be oversimplified like this. You need to separate the game types i've listed and treat them differently.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Mad777 on Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:33 am

betiko wrote:
Mad777 wrote:I don't see why spoil type should have a different treatment, doesn't matter what some player found to be the best scenario receiving a crad or not the bottom line is that you conquer a territory - you get a card, there is a No Spoil setting for those who don't want to get a card.
All those "strategy" around a coding that has never been updated is against the spirit of the RISK game, if this suggestion pass the cut some player may found harder to win a game without being help by the game coding and more about how to escape a possible trap by trading cards...in this suggestion there isn't much room for grey area, either we allow the timing out or not and for all type of spoil.
The OP has been made in such a way to not let any "grey" zone...


looks like you either don't read me, or don't try to understand what you read... or just don't understand how this game works.
I know it's one of the first two, as it often happens with you... and I've seen you doing it in this thread to others ;)

So let me rephrase, and I hope you'll give it a thought before replying this time
You cannot treat every type of settings the same way... In some cases, the essence of a setting is to collect as much spoils as possible; in some it's to avoid spoils in certain situations. In some very fast speed game settings, the whole strategy is to make your opponent run out of time so he doesn't collect his spoil.... And this type of setting is enjoyed by many, and is not illegit. It deserves to still be playable. I've also seen players taking the whole damn hour to take their turn. Why would they deserve the spoil if they take over an hour in a flat/escalating game? There is not 1 patch for everything. You need different remedies.

The OP is not enough specific. This can't be oversimplified like this. You need to separate the game types i've listed and treat them differently.


bet, I appreciate you are worry about my english level but if my last post was made only to reply to your post then I would have quoted it, since I haven't done that way then my response was a generic thought/post and mainly to expose the fact this suggestion was made at a whole "spoil type" level on purpose.

That doesn't mean your strategy point is valid or not, you seems to just not be 100% in agreement nor 100% in disagreement, I was only answering those who are asking and/or saying the OP should be revise and to be more specific.

Be sure I read & understood all those posting so far ;)

To emphasize my answer let me recall the way we have introduced the Resign button, at first with some game type and now trying to expend that feature to more side of the gaming, well....this suggestion can be taken the same way, applying the coding the way the game spirit should be, like the basic RISK, and in regards on the spoil rule, then if any tweak to be made because some players feel there is a strategy value to do so then those are welcome to submit another suggestion and be the owner of something that may better fit their way to see how the gaming should be.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby Furio on Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:21 am

First, I agree that this loophole should be closed.

That said, I think it's inaccurate to call it "cheating". As others have pointed, since one is able to do this without hacking, or coding, or having use of someone's password, and since it is done in plain sight with the full knowledge of all other game participants, then it isn't cheating - It's strategy.

The fact that I think it's a stupid glitch that takes away from game play doesn't make it cheating. We all know what cheating looks like - Multis, Secret Diplomacy, Passing recon in a foggy game. This just isn't that.

Just my opinion.

I'm in favor of closing this strategic loophole, as it's an easy thing to fix and doing so would be more in keeping with the spirit of the game's rules that not doing so would be.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby mrswdk on Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:40 am

Being pragmatic we should agree not to label as a cheat because this cheat is common enough that it would clog the C&A board if we started actioning it. The C&A mods are just volunteers with finite time like the rest of us. Furthermore, C&A requires people to bring forth complaints. The majority of players don't take the time to read the logs after a game. It is quite likely someone has cheated you out of a game in this manner and you didn't even notice. Rules which require manual enforcement are going to be rarely and inconsistently enforced. The only way to have a rule consistently and reliably enforced is to make it built-in to the actual game mechanics, and that is the only way we will eliminate this cheat.
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Re: Is it time to close the timing-out loophole?

Postby betiko on Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:34 pm

Furio wrote:First, I agree that this loophole should be closed.

That said, I think it's inaccurate to call it "cheating". As others have pointed, since one is able to do this without hacking, or coding, or having use of someone's password, and since it is done in plain sight with the full knowledge of all other game participants, then it isn't cheating - It's strategy.

The fact that I think it's a stupid glitch that takes away from game play doesn't make it cheating. We all know what cheating looks like - Multis, Secret Diplomacy, Passing recon in a foggy game. This just isn't that.

Just my opinion.

I'm in favor of closing this strategic loophole, as it's an easy thing to fix and doing so would be more in keeping with the spirit of the game's rules that not doing so would be.


How is passing information in a fog game cheating then?
Whatever information you give in chat can be true or false. "Blue has a 40 stack guys! Be careful!"
This is diplomacy... not "hacking". Then blue goes no way, I barely have 20 troops.... people are entitled to believe what the hell they want. Or to make up the figure they want.
I am totally in favour to comment what the heck you want in a fog game, to make things more like poker.

Missing spoils here is a complete different story, and can be cheating if done in previously described situations.
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