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F400 Clan Ranking - Needs Repair

Abandoned challenges and other old information.

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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby IcePack on Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:15 am

No worries. The past 2 weeks and this next week have just been...crazy. The short version:

1. Beta testers started
2. My grandma passed
3. I manage a large construction project which has had major issues pat weeks
4. My wife starts a business this week
5. Near hospital trip night before F400 went out
6. A few other things that normally wouldnt matter but became an issue w everything else going on lol

So, never a dull moment :) I know sat-mon or tues will be slammed but think my schedule calms down Wednesday and I catch up
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby laughingcavalier on Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:59 pm

^^ Real life first Icy, we can wait.
As per your request - TSM vrs Lotz finished, CC4 round 1:
Game 12848999 that's the last game and it went to LOTZ.
Final score is 30-11.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:39 pm

Just wondering if Lindax's tournament counts in the F400 Rankings? I just am not fully sure b/c of the 1 v 1 components and the weighted scoring system. But, I figure that stuff may get ignored and the rest of the team games may be counted? Yay or nay?
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby IcePack on Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:04 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:Just wondering if Lindax's tournament counts in the F400 Rankings? I just am not fully sure b/c of the 1 v 1 components and the weighted scoring system. But, I figure that stuff may get ignored and the rest of the team games may be counted? Yay or nay?


I posted in that thread it likely wouldn't count towards F400. Lindax didn't mind. (this was during set up / discussion and sign ups).
I would have to review it now that it's started to see what the final layout of tournament is
IE: I'll get back to you (tomorrow).

The F400 will get updated (along with all war info, my apologies) tomorrow (Wednesday).

I'll be lowering my personal game count quite a bit over the next few weeks to give me more time to spend on non game activity such as F400, mod etc. This should help address some of my time constraints in "crunch" times.

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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:21 pm

IcePack wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:Just wondering if Lindax's tournament counts in the F400 Rankings? I just am not fully sure b/c of the 1 v 1 components and the weighted scoring system. But, I figure that stuff may get ignored and the rest of the team games may be counted? Yay or nay?


I posted in that thread it likely wouldn't count towards F400. Lindax didn't mind. (this was during set up / discussion and sign ups).
I would have to review it now that it's started to see what the final layout of tournament is
IE: I'll get back to you (tomorrow).

The F400 will get updated (along with all war info, my apologies) tomorrow (Wednesday).

I'll be lowering my personal game count quite a bit over the next few weeks to give me more time to spend on non game activity such as F400, mod etc. This should help address some of my time constraints in "crunch" times.

IcePack


Sounds good. I'm fine with it either way. But, I'd prefer to know for when I'm setting my line-ups.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby Arama86n on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:07 am

viewtopic.php?f=441&t=188805
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby Dako on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:28 am

Just in time ;).
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby benga on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:54 pm

[CC4] OSA vs SOH 22-19 (41) - Final 7/27

viewtopic.php?f=442&t=190568
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby Genoke on Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:36 pm

i don't think it was mentioned before
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby IcePack on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:32 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
IcePack wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:Just wondering if Lindax's tournament counts in the F400 Rankings? I just am not fully sure b/c of the 1 v 1 components and the weighted scoring system. But, I figure that stuff may get ignored and the rest of the team games may be counted? Yay or nay?


I posted in that thread it likely wouldn't count towards F400. Lindax didn't mind. (this was during set up / discussion and sign ups).
I would have to review it now that it's started to see what the final layout of tournament is
IE: I'll get back to you (tomorrow).

The F400 will get updated (along with all war info, my apologies) tomorrow (Wednesday).

I'll be lowering my personal game count quite a bit over the next few weeks to give me more time to spend on non game activity such as F400, mod etc. This should help address some of my time constraints in "crunch" times.

IcePack


Sounds good. I'm fine with it either way. But, I'd prefer to know for when I'm setting my line-ups.


I'm not entirely sure I follow the set up. The weighted thing doesn't matter i can take game results, but can someone explain how many games of each game type is involved? (1 vs 1, d, t, q etc.)

A more simple breakdown of the tournament would help me determine whether i can include the results.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby Lindax on Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:11 pm

IcePack wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
IcePack wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:Just wondering if Lindax's tournament counts in the F400 Rankings? I just am not fully sure b/c of the 1 v 1 components and the weighted scoring system. But, I figure that stuff may get ignored and the rest of the team games may be counted? Yay or nay?


I posted in that thread it likely wouldn't count towards F400. Lindax didn't mind. (this was during set up / discussion and sign ups).
I would have to review it now that it's started to see what the final layout of tournament is
IE: I'll get back to you (tomorrow).

The F400 will get updated (along with all war info, my apologies) tomorrow (Wednesday).

I'll be lowering my personal game count quite a bit over the next few weeks to give me more time to spend on non game activity such as F400, mod etc. This should help address some of my time constraints in "crunch" times.

IcePack


Sounds good. I'm fine with it either way. But, I'd prefer to know for when I'm setting my line-ups.


I'm not entirely sure I follow the set up. The weighted thing doesn't matter i can take game results, but can someone explain how many games of each game type is involved? (1 vs 1, d, t, q etc.)

A more simple breakdown of the tournament would help me determine whether i can include the results.


Per round there are 3 dubs. 3 trips and 3 quads.

There are also 3 home and 3 away games. The clans choose the game type, so they can be 1 v 1, dubs, trips or quads. So the amount of them will vary per match up....

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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby IcePack on Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:55 pm

Lindax wrote:
IcePack wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
IcePack wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:Just wondering if Lindax's tournament counts in the F400 Rankings? I just am not fully sure b/c of the 1 v 1 components and the weighted scoring system. But, I figure that stuff may get ignored and the rest of the team games may be counted? Yay or nay?


I posted in that thread it likely wouldn't count towards F400. Lindax didn't mind. (this was during set up / discussion and sign ups).
I would have to review it now that it's started to see what the final layout of tournament is
IE: I'll get back to you (tomorrow).

The F400 will get updated (along with all war info, my apologies) tomorrow (Wednesday).

I'll be lowering my personal game count quite a bit over the next few weeks to give me more time to spend on non game activity such as F400, mod etc. This should help address some of my time constraints in "crunch" times.

IcePack


Sounds good. I'm fine with it either way. But, I'd prefer to know for when I'm setting my line-ups.


I'm not entirely sure I follow the set up. The weighted thing doesn't matter i can take game results, but can someone explain how many games of each game type is involved? (1 vs 1, d, t, q etc.)

A more simple breakdown of the tournament would help me determine whether i can include the results.


Per round there are 3 dubs. 3 trips and 3 quads.

There are also 3 home and 3 away games. The clans choose the game type, so they can be 1 v 1, dubs, trips or quads. So the amount of them will vary per match up....

Lx


So if i understand correctly:

Clan A: 3 d 3 t 3 q + 3 optional
Clan B: 3 d 3 t 3 q + 3 optional

It looks like it has enough games to qualify as a match up (min 12), while it does have some 1 vs 1 which i know has had a strong feelings towards NOT being included in F400. Even at max if everyone used 1 vs 1 it would be 25% max of the games. I'm willing to hear peoples thoughts on the inclusion or not.

The other issue would be whether or not Lindax is willing to track his event for F400 purposes, like qwert and benga do for theirs. He'd need to keep track of score, date of match completion / last game for each clan match up as the event organizer.

So once Lindax weighs in on being willing or not to do so, then we can begin discussion on whether or not to include the results.

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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby Swifte on Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:05 pm

I don't think you've got that correct. There are 3 d, 3 t, 3 q, which were all picked by lindax, and then 3 home for clan a, and 3 away for team b. 15 games total, not 24. Sounds like it still meets the min requirements though..
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby IcePack on Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:16 pm

Swifte wrote:I don't think you've got that correct. There are 3 d, 3 t, 3 q, which were all picked by lindax, and then 3 home for clan a, and 3 away for team b. 15 games total, not 24. Sounds like it still meets the min requirements though..


If that's the case, then the max 1 vs 1 is 40% which is quite a bit higher.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:38 pm

IcePack wrote:
Swifte wrote:I don't think you've got that correct. There are 3 d, 3 t, 3 q, which were all picked by lindax, and then 3 home for clan a, and 3 away for team b. 15 games total, not 24. Sounds like it still meets the min requirements though..


If that's the case, then the max 1 vs 1 is 40% which is quite a bit higher.


Maybe Lindax can run some stats to provide how much 1v1 is actually used in this event? Even though max is 40%, if only used 10% of the time, I'd be fine with it being included. But if all clans use this option a lot for this event, then I say no need to be in the F400.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:21 pm

If 1 v 1 is an issue and there is enough games w/o 1 v 1 then why even include any of them in the data?
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:30 pm

The LX tournament should not count in the F400 ranking b/c another irregularity that is occurring is clan reps do not have the power to direct invite players like in every other clan competition.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:36 pm

As I just pm'd to Icepack:

Not having direct privileges is now severely affecting my ability to invite the players that I want to invite. My players who are used to 24 hour invites, may gloss over PM's etc and then I'm forced to use a lesser player or potentially forfeit a game(s) b/c of the irregularity in the system.


I had read that Lindax would create games. But nowhere in the description did it say that a clan rep would not get privileges to direct invite like in every other clan competition.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:22 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:If 1 v 1 is an issue and there is enough games w/o 1 v 1 then why even include any of them in the data?


There is no guarantee that all of the fixtures meet the 'minimum of 12 games' criteria for inclusion in the F400. This is because there are only 9 games initially that do, to which are added 6 more games which are chosen from 1v1, doubs, trips & quads. So whilst some of the match-ups may meet the minimum of 12 team games, there is no certainty they all will. So for inclusion in the F400 someone would have to check which of the head-to-heads (15 games) had a minimum of 12 doubs/trips/quads.

That's how I see it anyway.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:25 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:If 1 v 1 is an issue and there is enough games w/o 1 v 1 then why even include any of them in the data?


There is no guarantee that all of the fixtures meet the 'minimum of 12 games' criteria for inclusion in the F400. This is because there are only 9 games initially that do, to which are added 6 more games which are chosen from 1v1, doubs, trips & quads. So whilst some of the match-ups may meet the minimum of 12 team games, there is no certainty they all will. So for inclusion in the F400 someone would have to check which of the head-to-heads (15 games) had a minimum of 12 doubs/trips/quads.

That's how I see it anyway.


This may be a moot point. I don't see anyway that the LX tourney gets counted at this point. There's too many irregularities for it to be counted IMO. We weren't informed that we would not have privileges to direct invite when when we agreed to the 96 hour time frame. Furthermore, Lindax refused to even send invites on our behalf. This is especially peculiar when one considers that he is strictly enforcing his forfeiture policy.

And last round, when Lindax was informed of this issue, he made no effort to request privileges (even though the omission is on his end). Nor, did he bother to give notice to the clans, who were competing in the next round, that they would need to be prepared to use his less efficient (non-standard) system.

Also, IMO. It should be concluded in advance of such a competition if the results (and what amount of results) should be included in the F400. I don't believe that Lindax took full care to compensate for that reality. Though, he may have had a justifiable blind spot as it is not his responsibility to directly regard the rankings. Though, it would have certainly been advisable.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:46 pm

My feeling is that if some of the matches from the tournament will not count in the rankings than none of them should.
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby IcePack on Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:08 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:My feeling is that if some of the matches from the tournament will not count in the rankings than none of them should.


I believe I'm of the same mindset. We need 12 qualified games in order to be included in the match ups. I'm not comfortable including half of the results that have 12, and another half that dont. So right now, I'm leaning towards not including them into the F400 due to the event set up. But, I'm still open to listening to arguments either way.

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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:42 pm

IcePack wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:My feeling is that if some of the matches from the tournament will not count in the rankings than none of them should.


I believe I'm of the same mindset. We need 12 qualified games in order to be included in the match ups. I'm not comfortable including half of the results that have 12, and another half that dont. So right now, I'm leaning towards not including them into the F400 due to the event set up. But, I'm still open to listening to arguments either way.

IcePack


Well, at this point, my clan is either not going to fill games or have games forfeit b/c it was not clear how games would be filled. I don't know why it should count if there's this discrepancy? Can you explain that to me?
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:02 am

I'm starting to see a MAJOR BLIND SPOT in the F400. All clans should know what competitions count for the F400 in advance of a competition. Right now, I'm looking for answers and the answer is it's up for debate?
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Re: F400 Ranking [July 1 Update]

Postby ViperOverLord on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:43 am

Okay I've pm'd this about this further with IcePack and he was very helpful for the record. And my last post, which made somewhat in frustration, should be clarified. I'm fine with everything being up for debate. I actually love that aspect. I think when everyone is included, the likelihood of a great system is maximized. Here's the one thing I would like to see changed in the future though:

I think that clans should know in advance whether a match-up counts. When people play sporting events, they don't decide after the fact whether it's official or exhibition.
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