Conqueror's Cup 2010. Winners Knights of the round table !!

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Big Whiskey on Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:14 am

Chuck,THOTA are in the finals.Lets update that first page pal. ;)
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chuuuuck on Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:29 am

Will do.

I know I have been by here a lot to apologize and haven't updated (I can only update from home) but my life is slowing down again a lot so I have time again in the evenings to take a look at this. I have had sitters on my account a lot lately and very little time.

I am very appreciative and applaud the clans to keep everything moving throughout the semi finals. I would like to say a big congratulations to THOTA, LOW, KORT and TOFU for making it to the final 4 and congratulations to THOTA for advancing already. I will get the bracket updated tonight, for sure.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:10 am

Chuck? The name's so familiar, I'm sure I've heard it before but the occasion escapes me as it's such a distant memory ;)

Welcome back to, er, reality. Glad your life is slowing down (although it is a sign of impending death) and allow me to throw a 'congrats' to the horsemen for making it through to the final.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Lubawski on Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:55 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Chuck? The name's so familiar, I'm sure I've heard it before but the occasion escapes me as it's such a distant memory ;)

Welcome back to, er, reality. Glad your life is slowing down (although it is a sign of impending death) and allow me to throw a 'congrats' to the horsemen for making it through to the final.


Nah, Chuck's slowing down is a wet dream for most of us. Don't let him fool you, it just means he's out whoring around four days a week instead of seven and the trips to Vegas only happen ever other weekend now.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Big Whiskey on Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:06 am

Chuuuuck wrote:Will do.

I know I have been by here a lot to apologize and haven't updated (I can only update from home) but my life is slowing down again a lot so I have time again in the evenings to take a look at this. I have had sitters on my account a lot lately and very little time.

I am very appreciative and applaud the clans to keep everything moving throughout the semi finals. I would like to say a big congratulations to THOTA, LOW, KORT and TOFU for making it to the final 4 and congratulations to THOTA for advancing already. I will get the bracket updated tonight, for sure.



u lied :cry: :lol:
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chuuuuck on Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:09 am

Big Whiskey wrote:u lied :cry: :lol:



Haha, I did. I actually got on to do it last night and instead started up with this whole KoRT/TOFU thing. It will be done though.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby eddie2 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:20 pm

ok guys please can you read the rules for this kort have used this rule 2 inforce a 21 game forfiet.

*EDIT* In each clan challenge thread. A list of players participating for each clan should be kept up along with a running tally of how many games each player has played in. If someone feels a player has violated the number of games they are allowed to participate in, please bring it to my attention. If they are found in violation, that clan will forfeit EVERY game that player has played in that clan challenge for the tournament.


now like i said this is all in the same paragraph so since kort did not follow the rules of the cup i think kort should have 2 forfiet somthing in the clan for not runing the thread appropriatly.

i think 20 games sounds about a fair comprimise or even a total forfiet of the whole thing and restarted with tofu controling the board.

and ps chuuuck if you are going 2 make conditions for a challenge and running of threads you should of been chasing kort 2 keep the thread running properly. and should of penilised them for not doing so.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chuuuuck on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:24 pm

For each clan war, the higher ranked clan will setup a thread to run that particular match.


This was also in the rules. KoRT should of never been running that thread, TOFU should of been. But there were no punishment tied to both of these things. Therefore I would not say they are rules but general guidelines to hopefully be followed to keep the organization of everything going well.

I don't think there can be any sort of punishment for these things.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Incandenza on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:27 pm

Well, then, let me just assure everyone that THOTA will be running the thread for the finals, though the opposition will be responsible for their own players' game tallies.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby eddie2 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:28 pm

Chuuuuck wrote:
For each clan war, the higher ranked clan will setup a thread to run that particular match.


This was also in the rules. KoRT should of never been running that thread, TOFU should of been. But there were no punishment tied to both of these things. Therefore I would not say they are rules but general guidelines to hopefully be followed to keep the organization of everything going well.

I don't think there can be any sort of punishment for these things.



but things didnt run well because tofu did not have a valid player usage list in this thread that kort were responsible for keeping updated.

so you could bring this whole thing down to the fact that kort did not follow the guidelines of the challenge so are partly responsible for the mistake that happened.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Dako on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:41 pm

I gave my written agreement that KORT can practice on running thread because I thought "well, who cares, the guys are serious anyway".

So no problems about who runs the thread. Player update violation - well, yeah, that happened.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby TheBro on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:47 pm

I like how under our players games it says "Not updated properly" but under theirs it is accurate :lol:
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chuuuuck on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:52 pm

eddie2 wrote:
Chuuuuck wrote:
For each clan war, the higher ranked clan will setup a thread to run that particular match.


This was also in the rules. KoRT should of never been running that thread, TOFU should of been. But there were no punishment tied to both of these things. Therefore I would not say they are rules but general guidelines to hopefully be followed to keep the organization of everything going well.

I don't think there can be any sort of punishment for these things.



but things didnt run well because tofu did not have a valid player usage list in this thread that kort were responsible for keeping updated.

so you could bring this whole thing down to the fact that kort did not follow the guidelines of the challenge so are partly responsible for the mistake that happened.


I assure you Eddie that the fact that thread was not updated had probably nothing to do with the fact that the rule was violated. CoF is a very meticulous and cautious guy. No matter what that thread said he would of been keeping his own tally and count (I am pretty sure he can come in here and agree with all of this). He just made an error when keeping his own tally that he has admitted to. That error very well probably would of occurred no matter what the thread from an opposing clan said.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby eddie2 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:57 pm

TheBro wrote:I like how under our players games it says "Not updated properly" but under theirs it is accurate :lol:


no because if it was in the public eye someone might of seen the mistake that was made with the game counts. this must of happened week 1 or 2 because i am very sure that

example.
cof would not of seen he had 4 games he could join in the last set and joined 5.

and if he did or did not keep his own list that has nothing 2 do with it the guidelines state that the player list must be kept updated and from my understanding tofu were asking kort 2 update this thread constantly. and kort were not doing the job they asked 2 do.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby TheBro on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:00 pm

eddie2 wrote:
TheBro wrote:I like how under our players games it says "Not updated properly" but under theirs it is accurate :lol:


no because if it was in the public eye someone might of seen the mistake that was made with the game counts. this must of happened week 1 or 2 because i am very sure that

example.
cof would not of seen he had 4 games he could join in the last set and joined 5.


I mean in their thread they updated their game count, but not our game count.

And Chuck, CoF's mistake was from the KoRT thread where they misplaced him in a game. Still, he miscalculated and that's on us, but their scores weren't accurate, which is what Eddie is saying.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:37 pm

Yeah, unfortunately our thread (in the TOFU forum) was a copied job that Dako created from White Moose's OP in the public thread. This meant that the list of games only showed updates as and when Moose decided to do it. Whilst I did compile a list of my own games (after running through the 40 maps in Batches 1 & 2) I simply overlooked the fact I had participated in USApocalypse which I mistook for Arms Race (i.e. that was the map I had in my mind when I read it, and I knew I hadn't played on it). The mistake wouldn't have been made if a list of games with the participating players had been kept up-to-date, because then the task of tallying the totals becomes a very simple one (far easier than opening 40 pages of games to check the names of the participants on a PC that takes two minutes to load Conquerman and cannot load Hive at all). What's most annoying is that my original sheet of paper (that's how I keep notes at home) indicated I had 7 games allowance remaining, which was correct. When I did a last minute recount just prior to everyone joining their games that is when I discounted the USApocalypse game and thought "Eh? I must have been wrong before and I can actually play in eight games". I then replaced Dako in Bamboo Jack trips (the line-up we had posted had Dako instead of me and it would have been perfect left alone). Had there been a proper update of the games, showing the participants alongside each game as had been done for Batch 1, then of course the error wouldn't have been made as I'd have seen my name alongside USApocalypse.

Lessons to be learned from this:

- don't let the other clan run the OP. They requested to do it (I can't imagine why) as it should have been our job being the higher seeded clan.

- push the author of the OP to update it more frequently. I even sent Moose updates to the player count which he didn't apply to the thread which I find very annoying. His response was simply 'Player counts are not accurate' to paraphrase his reply.

There was a ridiculous lapse of time between Batches 2 and 3 - ample time for the OP to be updated but it never was (despite me even sending the info to KORT), yet it's funny how quickly the OP has now been updated after the 21 game penalty!

This is a very interesting rule (thank you Eddie): "A list of players participating for each clan should be kept up along with a running tally of how many games each player has played in". Well KORT failed in their duty to do this, yet now they wish to apply a penalty for a breach that their own negligence brought about. Pretty sick eh.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:39 pm

I did the player game counts for both THOTA and LoW.

In light of this information, I feel that any games in which players whom were part of my tally played should go to LoW, resulting in a 60-0 victory.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby TheBro on Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:18 am

We're not going to enforce the penalty on KORT though. That would be cowardly. We're just going to finish the challenge and do our best. No need to thank us, it's really just the right thing to do.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Big Whiskey on Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:54 pm

Chuuuuck wrote:
Big Whiskey wrote:u lied :cry: :lol:



Haha, I did. I actually got on to do it last night and instead started up with this whole KoRT/TOFU thing. It will be done though.



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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chuuuuck on Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:50 pm

Okay. I have tried to explain my thought process and actions in all of this to a few people but it seems obvious to me now I need to explain it to everyone.

On November 9, I posted the ruling in the thread of the clan war. At the bottom of that post I said:

As per the rules of the cup. TOFU will forfeit all 21 games listed above as far as the Conqueror's Cup is concerned. According to my count, this makes the official score of this challenge currently 12-36 in KoRT's favor with 12 games outstanding. KoRT will advance to the finals where they will face off with THOTA.


Here, I made a ruling. I did not ask for KoRT to make any decision or say anything about it. So many of you have said "chuck should of never allowed a decision to be made." I did not say anything, I made a ruling. Since then I have never stated in ANY POST that KoRT needs to make a decision. I stated that the games will be forfeited and KoRT will move on according to the rules. The community as a whole as well as TOFU since then have asked for KoRT to make a decision in the threads, but as far as I am concerned, they had no obligation to make any decision whatsoever.

For a while a lot of people mentioned in the thread that "rules can be bent." I made one post related to that stating:

To those that say the rules can be bent. I agree, the rules can be bent if all that are involved in the matter agree for them to be bent. Right now, the only people that are involved in the matter are TOFU and KoRT and in a very small sense, myself (to uphold the integrity of the tournament). I don't see anyway I can direct anyone to bend the rules without their agreement.

My opinion on this whole matter is not important whatsoever. I am not saying I like the way it is going down but I am not saying KoRT is wrong in letting it go down this way. The bottom line is, the rule was violated and if no other agreement is reached then I must default back to the way the rule was written and agreed upon before the tournament ever started.


Some of you have misconstrued this message from me as stating that KoRT needs to make a decision on it, not me. No where in that message did I say KoRT has to do anything. I made my ruling and unless I heard of an "agreement" reached by everyone involved then I was sticking to my ruling. The only reason I made this post was to clarify to those of you that said the rules could be bent what could be done about the rules. Some think I should not have even allowed an "agreement" to be reached and just stated that no matter what KoRT and TOFU said, the rule will be upheld. Well, I know many of you know this but I think it is important everyone does why I was saying this was okay. Throughout this entire tournament I have told all battles that they could make rules of their own for their own battle as long as both clans agree. I did this because all clan war challenges are usually created where both clans agree to settings, if there are settings that differ and both clans like then I have no problem with it as long as they both agree that the outcome from that war and those settings is going to be the result used for the Conqueror's Cup. As an example of this LoW and O&H had agreed to not enforce the exact rule that has been violated for their battle because O&H were struggling after they had recently split. Empire tried to negotiate a 60 game battle with KoRT instead of 40 although KoRT ultimately rejected this offer. Other battles had discussed getting rid of the 1v1 series and doing other games instead although this never happened I don't think. So my quote above was strictly there to say what could happen, but I in no way was stating that KoRT had any decision to make or needed to engage in an agreement with TOFU whatsoever. As far as I was concerned, the ruling was made, I had heard nothing from KoRT/TOFU jointly and KoRT was/is the winners of the batttle.

Now, even more of you, some of whom I consider good friends on this site, in public and in my private messages, have told me that I should intervene and change the rule and make the battle finish. I think that statement is absolutely ridiculous. If it was unanimous across the board then I would be all for changing a rule, but obviously from posts read, it is not unanimous that everyone thinks that rule should be changed. It is obvious that more people think the rule needs to be changed than those that don't, but the most important fact that remains is the tournament and all battles were started with that rule intact so those that think the rule should be upheld are the only ones that have any ground to stand on because they are the ones following the rule. I, as the tournament director, can only follow the rules of the tournament to make it absolutely fair to all involved unless everyone involved agrees to do something else.

I think the most important series of posts that pertain to this event are right here.

Chuuuuck wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:- what happens if a clan is in breach of any of the rules re map & player quotas?

it's better to get these things sorted before we start than to argue over them should any such eventuality arise during the competition.


I have already answered the question about the player quotas in the first post. If a player exceeds the quotas, then their clan will forfeit ALL games that player participated in that clan war. This is a big rule. It will be nearly impossible to win for a clan that does this so DON'T break the rule!
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby jpcloet on Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:05 pm

Locked for a limited time in agreement with the OP. Please read the previous post for the organizer's clarifications.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Big Whiskey on Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:25 pm

Chuck,how about a update pal?
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Blitzaholic on Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:52 pm

Big Whiskey wrote:Chuck,how about a update pal?



I think BW is referring to the graph here Chuuuuck in your 1st post.

Chuuuuck wrote:Image

show: Seedings


show: links to clan wars
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Lubawski on Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:44 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:
Big Whiskey wrote:Chuck,how about a update pal?



I think BW is referring to the graph here Chuuuuck in your 1st post.

Chuuuuck wrote:Image

show: Seedings


show: links to clan wars


lol. The last time this was updated Brett Farve was still considered a quarterback.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chuuuuck on Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:43 pm

2nd post has been updated.

A big congratulations to both THOTA and KoRT for making the finals as well as LoW and TOFU for doing as well as they have. Good luck to both clans in the finals.
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