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Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby shaneback on Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:47 pm

peanutsdad wrote:
jpcloet wrote:I've told a few people mid-January, we will likely have to wait for Div B to finish up.


Yeah we're bringing it down to the wire with em... but we'll be there... I think...lol


3 games left, we have to win 2 to advance and it looks like you are leading in all three. Worst part for me is my games are all over, so I can't help anymore. Regardless of the outcome, we have exceeded all our expectations.

Much respect for Myth - Solid group who play well together.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Rodion on Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:19 pm

shaneback wrote:
peanutsdad wrote:
jpcloet wrote:I've told a few people mid-January, we will likely have to wait for Div B to finish up.


Yeah we're bringing it down to the wire with em... but we'll be there... I think...lol


3 games left, we have to win 2 to advance and it looks like you are leading in all three. Worst part for me is my games are all over, so I can't help anymore. Regardless of the outcome, we have exceeded all our expectations.

Much respect for Myth - Solid group who play well together.


Can't you advance by winning 1 and getting to 48 wins? That would also bring Mythology's maximum number of wins down to 47.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby shaneback on Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:31 pm

they have a win against Empire that is not over yet, and if we end tied they will have won more games Head to Head (unless I miscalculated somewhere)
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Lubawski on Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:30 am

shaneback wrote:they have a win against Empire that is not over yet, and if we end tied they will have won more games Head to Head (unless I miscalculated somewhere)

I just looked. There was a game missing from the drop down for EMP v Myth. Myth will win as Shane said. I posted this in the other thread as well so it isn't missed.

Lubawski wrote:
jpcloet wrote: Empire VS Mythology
Game 8043125 Empire
Game 8043124 Empire
Game 8043116 Empire
Game 8043109 Empire
Game 8043105 Empire
Game 8043102 Mythology
Game 8043099 Empire
Game 8043095 Mythology


There is one game missing from this set: Game 8043122. I'm not sure if the games only show up here when they are complete (I think they are all posted here). This game is still active, but will end in a win for Myth (and a very deserving win).
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby reptile on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:05 pm

This question may have already been asked... but

# The top 2 Clans in each division will be sent to the bracket playoffs
# Playoffs and relegation will be a 8Q-7T-4D with each side choosing 4Q-3T-2D as described below as the regular season format. The additional triples map will be Random-Esc-Chained-Sunny.


By bracket style will all clans that make the playoffs be included into the same bracket? In other words if we finish with the worst record of the playoff teams (8th) and TOFU for instance has the best then will we be playing them first?

so all teams from each subdivision be ranked and playing eachother?

8v1
7v2
6v3
5v4
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Leehar on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:20 pm

reptile wrote:This question may have already been asked... but

# The top 2 Clans in each division will be sent to the bracket playoffs
# Playoffs and relegation will be a 8Q-7T-4D with each side choosing 4Q-3T-2D as described below as the regular season format. The additional triples map will be Random-Esc-Chained-Sunny.


By bracket style will all clans that make the playoffs be included into the same bracket? In other words if we finish with the worst record of the playoff teams (8th) and TOFU for instance has the best then will we be playing them first?

so all teams from each subdivision be ranked and playing eachother?

8v1
7v2
6v3
5v4

I think the bracket has already been determined.
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So if memory serves, something like:
Tofu-TSM
IA-Myth

Low-Kort
AoC-Emp
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Masli on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:23 pm

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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Chuuuuck on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:28 pm

As it stands right now (a few can still change), it appears to be:

TOFU vs. TSM
IA vs. Devil's Brigade
KoRT vs. LoW
Empire vs. AoC
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Rodion on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:31 pm

Rodion wrote:
jpcloet wrote:The Clan All-Star Teams
Using the Tournament Stats script, the Clan Directors will be naming a First Team (Doubles-Triples-Quads plus 2 reserves) 11 Player All-Star team along with the Top Player Award.


Can you elaborate more on this? What are you guys going for? Most wins? Best win percentage? In case of best win percentage, is there a minimum number of games it takes to be eligible? In case there is, which number is that? What is/are the tiebreakers and what is their order of importance?

Also feel free to explain details that might have escaped my questions. ;)

Thanks!


Can anyone answer that? :lol:
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Lubawski on Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:06 pm

Rodion wrote:
Rodion wrote:
jpcloet wrote:The Clan All-Star Teams
Using the Tournament Stats script, the Clan Directors will be naming a First Team (Doubles-Triples-Quads plus 2 reserves) 11 Player All-Star team along with the Top Player Award.


Can you elaborate more on this? What are you guys going for? Most wins? Best win percentage? In case of best win percentage, is there a minimum number of games it takes to be eligible? In case there is, which number is that? What is/are the tiebreakers and what is their order of importance?

Also feel free to explain details that might have escaped my questions. ;)

Thanks!


Can anyone answer that? :lol:


Not I, but I'd like to see the results.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:48 am

Rodion wrote:
Rodion wrote:
jpcloet wrote:The Clan All-Star Teams
Using the Tournament Stats script, the Clan Directors will be naming a First Team (Doubles-Triples-Quads plus 2 reserves) 11 Player All-Star team along with the Top Player Award.


Can you elaborate more on this? What are you guys going for? Most wins? Best win percentage? In case of best win percentage, is there a minimum number of games it takes to be eligible? In case there is, which number is that? What is/are the tiebreakers and what is their order of importance?

Also feel free to explain details that might have escaped my questions. ;)

Thanks!


Can anyone answer that? :lol:


Doesn't look like anyone can. Hopefully though it's not win percentage (where a player with a 3-1 record, for example, would beat a player who's gone 19-7). Net win rate, i.e. wins minus losses, would be the fairest method, with win percentage being factored in where there is a tie.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby angola on Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:56 am

I like the idea of net-win rate, though I think there should be a minimum number of games played to qualify as well.

Of course, minimum number of games played would also make 3-1 type records moot, but net-win rate is still better than winning percentage I think.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Rodion on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:36 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
Rodion wrote:
Rodion wrote:
jpcloet wrote:The Clan All-Star Teams
Using the Tournament Stats script, the Clan Directors will be naming a First Team (Doubles-Triples-Quads plus 2 reserves) 11 Player All-Star team along with the Top Player Award.


Can you elaborate more on this? What are you guys going for? Most wins? Best win percentage? In case of best win percentage, is there a minimum number of games it takes to be eligible? In case there is, which number is that? What is/are the tiebreakers and what is their order of importance?

Also feel free to explain details that might have escaped my questions. ;)

Thanks!


Can anyone answer that? :lol:


Doesn't look like anyone can. Hopefully though it's not win percentage (where a player with a 3-1 record, for example, would beat a player who's gone 19-7). Net win rate, i.e. wins minus losses, would be the fairest method, with win percentage being factored in where there is a tie.


I'm not a huge fan of defining rules/formulae after games are played, but since it appears there is no previously decided method, I'll give my thoughts on the subject.

Personally, I'd consider a 25-0 performance better than a 28-2 one, but net win rate wouldn't represent that fairness. That noted, I think win percentage is the way to go, with the need of a minimum number of games played for eligibility (so we don't fill the all-star team with players that went 100% as 1-0). Tiebreaker would be net win rate, so a 6-0 doubles player would lose to a 7-0 doubles player.

Let's not forget no player was allowed to play more than 30 games. I'll throw some numbers that I briefly pondered just as an attempt to get the ball rolling.

Clans played:

90 total games (290 spots) - for MVP and reserve all-star team consideration, I think a minimum of 20 games would be appropriate (6.9% of that clan's spots).
20 doubles (40 spots) - for doubles all-star team consideration, I think a minimum of 3 doubles games would be appropriate (7.5% of that clan's spots).
30 triples (90 spots) - for triples all-star team consideration, I think a minimum of 6 triples games would be appropriate (6.67% of that clan's spots).
40 quadruples (160 spots) - for quadruples all-star team consideration, I think a minimum of 10 quadruples games would be appropriate (6.25% of that clan's spots).

These numbers could change according to CD's/community's will, I really just wanted to get the ball rolling. I didn't quite like the minimum of 3 doubles games, but if I raised it to 4 I would have to set triples minimum at 9, quadruples minimum at 16 and total minimum at 29 to keep things proportional. 20/3/6/10 was a good way of balancing proportions and I wanted the original draft to be proportional, but I'd personally like 20/4/6/10 a lot better.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Rodion on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:39 am

angola wrote:I like the idea of net-win rate, though I think there should be a minimum number of games played to qualify as well.

Of course, minimum number of games played would also make 3-1 type records moot, but net-win rate is still better than winning percentage I think.


Wouldn't be necessary, as establishing a big net win rate couldn't be done with few games played (a 6-0 perfect performance would only get +6, while a 20-10 good but not great performance would get +10).
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:44 am

I'm not a huge fan of defining rules/formulae after games are played


:lol: No f'ing kidding! That's the most definitive post I've seen on the subject yet.

Nice thorough job though =D>
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby lord voldemort on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:03 am

i see some holes...
some of the best doubles players wont play trips and quads...eg mikidios and superrag (bpb)
while i haevnt looked at there's or anyone elses numbers...what if they went 15-0 or something ridic like that...yet they dont qualify for allstar selection...even though everyone woudl agree those kind of results are worthy of a spot.

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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Leehar on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:16 am

How was it determined last season? Isn't that a good baseline?
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby josko.ri on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:41 am

angola wrote:I like the idea of net-win rate, though I think there should be a minimum number of games played to qualify as well.

Of course, minimum number of games played would also make 3-1 type records moot, but net-win rate is still better than winning percentage I think.


I dont like that idea of net-win rate, because, between 2 great players, one with score 21-9 (70%) and other one with score 15-4 (79%), better would be the first one, who is maybe in clan with small number of players or who is "the one and only in his clan" so plays maximum number of games always.

IMO clan competition is with the purpose that entirely clan participate equally in number of games played, so clan with about 20 players who do it (gives equal number of games to their players, no matter of members' playing knowledge) do not have chance to participate in competition for all star if key for decision is net-win rate. reason is very simple, in 290 available slots, average player will be in about 15 games if that clan goes with idea to give all members equal number of games. then noone from that clan can be in competition for all star because maximum net-win rate will be 15-0, and i am sure it will be more than 10 players who has more than +15 net-win rate, like 23-7.

so what do we want? A) to award players who has sense for clan competition (documented with the fact that whole clan plays equal number of games) or B) to award the ones who gives maximum number of games to 2-3 players while the rest of the clan play only about 10 games? if net-win is the key for all star, then option B will be awarded.

IMO opinion, you should award members with highest winning % and played minimum number of games, let s say it may be 50+% of allowed number of games so 16 games in that case. then 25-0 will be awarded better than 28-2, and 16-0 will be awarded better than 24-6, which should be according to common sense.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby jpcloet on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:44 am

Leehar wrote:How was it determined last season? Isn't that a good baseline?


Last Season we ran the script and the top player award went to someone with a really high win% and also across all team types (DTQ)

viewtopic.php?f=442&t=93536

However, the all-stars were chosen by position, so if you were really good at doubles, then you had a spot.

The baseline was really high though. Something like min games of 10 along with a win rate of about 75-80% on your spot plus 70% or higher on the other team games. I think almost all the quads players last season were undefeated.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Rodion on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:49 am

lord voldemort wrote:i see some holes...
some of the best doubles players wont play trips and quads...eg mikidios and superrag (bpb)
while i haevnt looked at there's or anyone elses numbers...what if they went 15-0 or something ridic like that...yet they dont qualify for allstar selection...even though everyone woudl agree those kind of results are worthy of a spot.

I


Read again. 15-0 doubles would make them eligible for doubles all star team.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby jpcloet on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:49 am

Certainly some strong records going.

DivA
Cachejob20-1
Chariot of Fire 23-4 (Top Player in Season 2)
Dako 20-5

Have not looked at the others.
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby jpcloet on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:50 am

The other nice thing about the tournament script is that you can put in just game numbers so we can dump all the doubles from the spreadsheet masters and get the best players much easier this year.

That dubs team is 5-7 that everyone is thinking about so not likely all-stars this season. ;)
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Rodion on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:56 am

jpcloet wrote:
Leehar wrote:How was it determined last season? Isn't that a good baseline?


Last Season we ran the script and the top player award went to someone with a really high win% and also across all team types (DTQ)

viewtopic.php?f=442&t=93536

However, the all-stars were chosen by position, so if you were really good at doubles, then you had a spot.

The baseline was really high though. Something like min games of 10 along with a win rate of about 75-80% on your spot plus 70% or higher on the other team games. I think almost all the quads players last season were undefeated.


If they're picked by position, shouldn't the "other team games" be totally disregarded? I think only MVP and reserves would need to have a good record in the 3 positions (dubs/trips/quads).
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby Rodion on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:00 am

jpcloet wrote:Cachejob20-1


Makes me wonder: if someone manages to go undefeated in 2 kinds of games (say, trips and quads), who gets to pick whether he goes to the all star team as a triples or quads player?
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Re: Clan League: Season 3 - Info, Q&A

Postby josko.ri on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:03 am

loes 15-2
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