Conquer Club

josko.ri wrote:

jakewilliams wrote:Then TOFU goes to #1, KORT #2, THOTA #3.

to be #1 you need to at least beat some top clans. your the greatest win was vs #8 clan (I know you will say also vs #3), but are beating #8 and #3 enough to become #1? also, on the time when you played vs KORT and AoC, they were ranked #6 and #16.

from the other side, THOTA beat #2 seed 3 or 4 times, and then you think that you will overcome them if they loose once in 5 years vs #3 seed? lol

I totally agree with Josko on this one

skillfull wrote:

josko.ri wrote:

jakewilliams wrote:Then TOFU goes to #1, KORT #2, THOTA #3.

to be #1 you need to at least beat some top clans. your the greatest win was vs #8 clan (I know you will say also vs #3), but are beating #8 and #3 enough to become #1? also, on the time when you played vs KORT and AoC, they were ranked #6 and #16.

from the other side, THOTA beat #2 seed 3 or 4 times, and then you think that you will overcome them if they loose once in 5 years vs #3 seed? lol

I totally agree with Josko on this one

Idk, I tend to go with Dako, If it's a matter of perception, and B beats C (at least on face value), but C goes on to beat A, therefore, B is better than A and C according to my perception

I agree with dako, it's about right now. skill, how pissed would you be if you guys had beaten THOTA but still been considered #2?

jrh_cardinal wrote:I agree with dako, it's about right now. skill, how pissed would you be if you guys had beaten THOTA but still been considered #2?

awful! hehe, but who have beaten thota so far( in a clan war??)....got my point?

Leehar wrote:

skillfull wrote:

josko.ri wrote:

jakewilliams wrote:Then TOFU goes to #1, KORT #2, THOTA #3.

to be #1 you need to at least beat some top clans. your the greatest win was vs #8 clan (I know you will say also vs #3), but are beating #8 and #3 enough to become #1? also, on the time when you played vs KORT and AoC, they were ranked #6 and #16.

from the other side, THOTA beat #2 seed 3 or 4 times, and then you think that you will overcome them if they loose once in 5 years vs #3 seed? lol

I totally agree with Josko on this one

Idk, I tend to go with Dako, If it's a matter of perception, and B beats C (at least on face value), but C goes on to beat A, therefore, B is better than A and C according to my perception

Why the stone is not happy?

Dako wrote:Why the stone is not happy?

I AM happy

danryan wrote:Reckon your Russian is better than his english??

I have the utmost respect for anyone that is bilingual, an accomplishment that I can only dream about. Especially if their second language is english, the hardest language to master of all! (as I reckon dan has demonstrated above)

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Tammy DeLee wrote:

danryan wrote:Reckon your Russian is better than his english??

I have the utmost respect for anyone that is bilingual, an accomplishment that I can only dream about. Especially if their second language is english, the hardest language to master of all! (as I reckon dan has demonstrated above)

Sorry, couldn't resist!

I was already feeling the pat on the back when I read the rest and noticed the irony.

I'm from Texas. Reckon that's all that needs to be said.

danryan wrote:I'm from Texas. Reckon that's all that needs to be said.

poor guy... even admits to it

jrh_cardinal wrote:I agree with dako, it's about right now. skill, how pissed would you be if you guys had beaten THOTA but still been considered #2?

there are many clans who beat some other clan but are ranked below them. one win (especially if it is win by 1-2 games) is not fact that should move someone to #1, for be the best you need winning constantly vs the best clans, what only THOTA did. TOFU has zero (or 1, howewer anyone think about it) win vs top clan.

for everyone who looks on power rankings on the way clan A beat clan B, clan B beat clan C, so clan A is better than clan C, one fact: KoRT won vs TSM 10-8 in group stage of league, so if TSM win 10-9 vs TOFU also in league does it mean that KORT is stronger than TOFU because of that?

Tammy DeLee wrote:I have the utmost respect for anyone that is bilingual, an accomplishment that I can only dream about. Especially if their second language is english, the EASIEST language to master of all! (as I reckon dan has demonstrated above)

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Fixed. I can't imagine how can anyone say that it's a hard language - it was much, much easier than Lithuanian or Russian.

josko.ri wrote:

jrh_cardinal wrote:I agree with dako, it's about right now. skill, how pissed would you be if you guys had beaten THOTA but still been considered #2?

there are many clans who beat some other clan but are ranked below them. one win (especially if it is win by 1-2 games) is not fact that should move someone to #1, for be the best you need winning constantly vs the best clans, what only THOTA did. TOFU has zero (or 1, howewer anyone think about it) win vs top clan.

for everyone who looks on power rankings on the way clan A beat clan B, clan B beat clan C, so clan A is better than clan C, one fact: KoRT won vs TSM 10-8 in group stage of league, so if TSM win 10-9 vs TOFU also in league does it mean that KORT is stronger than TOFU because of that?

not sure if anyone here follows ncaa college football at all, but this is basically the biggest problem with the BCS rankings, NOBODY is ever happy. its almost impossible to rank teams because of a) there is too many teams, and b) the strength of schedules.

same thing as well with ncaa basketball. st johns beats wvu, georgetown, notre dame, duke, uconn, pitt and nova this year. all of which were ranked in the top 25. no other team has beaten that many top 25 teams this year. st johns is only ranked 15th right now, and they JUST got into the top 25 recently. sad, but true. im not even a johnnies fan, but if i was, id be pissed that i wasnt ranked top 3 in the country after those impressive wins! i guess bottom line here is that - no matter what, its impossible to have a clear cut ranking system that everybody will agree on. if they cant do it in collegiate sports, what makes us think we can do it on this site?

So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really?

josko.ri wrote:

jrh_cardinal wrote:I agree with dako, it's about right now. skill, how pissed would you be if you guys had beaten THOTA but still been considered #2?

there are many clans who beat some other clan but are ranked below them. one win (especially if it is win by 1-2 games) is not fact that should move someone to #1, for be the best you need winning constantly vs the best clans, what only THOTA did. TOFU has zero (or 1, howewer anyone think about it) win vs top clan.

for everyone who looks on power rankings on the way clan A beat clan B, clan B beat clan C, so clan A is better than clan C, one fact: KoRT won vs TSM 10-8 in group stage of league, so if TSM win 10-9 vs TOFU also in league does it mean that KORT is stronger than TOFU because of that?

Im not a big fan of the "who havent you played" argument in TOFU's case. They have actively seeked challenges from upper-clans only to be denied. I completely agree THOTA is #1, and perhaps have even earned to keep the spot if beaten closely based on their previous record. If there is really a huge issue between two clans that are that close, they should play the challenge and figure it out, not compare who theyve both beaten.

John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really?

2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.

Rodion wrote:

John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really?

2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.

you must be joking...seriously.

ljex wrote:

Rodion wrote:

John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really?

2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.

you must be joking...seriously.

you're from New York (I think). They're not in the top 3, maybe not even the top 5 of 2007, they just got hot at the right time.

I'll admit that the 06 Cardinals were not nearly the best team in 2006, everything just lined up that year. However, I would argue they were the best in 04, but the Red Sox got hot at the right time and won 8 games in a row in the ALCS and World Series.

Why are we talking about this? lol

I simply let results do the talking, though place less importance on results with either a very small differential or where it was over a limited number of games. It's why KORT figured highly in my own (and TOFU's) recent ranking, as they've had a good year and only lost to us (on paper) by a couple of games. They also have a very good player, though it's a shame he's such a TOFU hater.

We're probably just about to lose our first ever head-to-head 9-10 (and that's clan leagues II & III and all challenges) plus of course we ran away with the TLO tourney last edition and are heading it now (for those unfamiliar with Lindax's TLO it's a far more comprehensive and much longer 'true league' format than the Clan League). In a little over 19 months we've completed nine challenges (273-138 game count), gone 160-48 in two clan leagues, and our members have won a combined 40 tourneys just in that time. And these stats include clans such as Legion, BFM, AOC, G1, Mythology, Dragoons, KORT, LOW and BSS who, on any given day, are perfectly capable of beating any clan on the site, esp in Clan League.

Sorry if this comes across as a "Ra Ra Tofu" rant - it's not really my style - but it is frustrating to read comments that often infer we haven't faced any stiff competition

At the end of the day is the best team in English football the one who finishes top of the division or the team just below them who happened to beat them once or twice?

Look lets be frank... In the clan world there are 6 elite clans...

THOTA
IA
LOW
TOFU
TSM
KORT


We could all turn blue in the face talking about who is 2-6, but it would not do anybody any good.. Past THOTA, who has never lost a challenge everybody else is up for debate.

If any of these 6 clans played in a 60 game set anything is possible and anybody can beat one another. Nobody is unbeatable and nobody is gonna sweep everybody. THOTA has done a great job of holding off clans for so long but it is only a matter of time before they get beat.

As far as TOFU goes... they have played who has been in front of them and done well vs all comers. Yes even did well vs US(KORT). They have taken down a good number of mid ranked clans by large margins and playing tough vs everybody else. They are not a clan to be taken lightly.

Some interesting matches I would like to see this year


TSM vs TOFU

IA vs KORT

THOTA vs TOFU

LoW vs KORT

THOTA vs IA

TSM vs KORT

LoW vs TOFU


Any of those matches would be really fun to watch or be a part of.

Edited to add:

Empire and AOC are fast closing in on the elite clans. They might soon take a spot of one of the 6 or join them?

jrh_cardinal wrote:

ljex wrote:

Rodion wrote:

John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really?

2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.

you must be joking...seriously.

you're from New York (I think). They're not in the top 3, maybe not even the top 5 of 2007, they just got hot at the right time.

I'll admit that the 06 Cardinals were not nearly the best team in 2006, everything just lined up that year. However, I would argue they were the best in 04, but the Red Sox got hot at the right time and won 8 games in a row in the ALCS and World Series.

Why are we talking about this? lol

yes i am from new york but i am not a giants fan at all...the team that wins the super bowl is the best team that year plain and simple in my opinion. If any other team was the best team they would have won, yeah its about being hot at the right time but that just means you are playing your best its not like there is luck in football.

josko.ri wrote:for everyone who looks on power rankings on the way clan A beat clan B, clan B beat clan C, so clan A is better than clan C, one fact: KoRT won vs TSM 10-8 in group stage of league, so if TSM win 10-9 vs TOFU also in league does it mean that KORT is stronger than TOFU because of that?

But again, that comes against the argument that it's not really a large enough of a sample size to determine enough. The biggest evidence for that is how swings have been in your own duel vs thota. The 13-7 lead you had in the first batch, could quite easily be similar if you faced off in a normal league showdown, but does it really show you the whole picture?

And btw Bruce, that was a pretty harsh jab on Empire. In my view they've been elite for a very long time, to deem them as wannabe's seems undue.

Also CoF, interesting comment on the TLO, but I feel it also gives too much emphasis on a limited amount of players (6 in a team, no?). I think Clans usually really need more depth in order to be successful. Individual success doesn't always translate, tho you've obviously done an amazing job with your batch.

by Chariot of Fire on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:16 am

I simply let results do the talking, though place less importance on results with either a very small differential or where it was over a limited number of games. It's why KORT figured highly in my own (and TOFU's) recent ranking, as they've had a good year and only lost to us (on paper) by a couple of games. They also have a very good player, though it's a shame he's such a TOFU hater.

We're probably just about to lose our first ever head-to-head 9-10 (and that's clan leagues II & III and all challenges) plus of course we ran away with the TLO tourney last edition and are heading it now (for those unfamiliar with Lindax's TLO it's a far more comprehensive and much longer 'true league' format than the Clan League). In a little over 19 months we've completed nine challenges (273-138 game count), gone 160-48 in two clan leagues, and our members have won a combined 40 tourneys just in that time. And these stats include clans such as Legion, BFM, AOC, G1, Mythology, Dragoons, KORT, LOW and BSS who, on any given day, are perfectly capable of beating any clan on the site, esp in Clan League.

Sorry if this comes across as a "Ra Ra Tofu" rant - it's not really my style - but it is frustrating to read comments that often infer we haven't faced any stiff competition

At the end of the day is the best team in English football the one who finishes top of the division or the team just below them who happened to beat them once or twice?

I agree with that, results need to say last word- Who play 3-4 chalenges and win all ,probably are good clan, but who play 10-15 chalenges and win all,are much better clan.
These is not like THOTA World champion, and to play only few games to stay no1.
Italy become World champion in footbal, and not play great, but still win a throphy.

Leehar wrote:

josko.ri wrote:for everyone who looks on power rankings on the way clan A beat clan B, clan B beat clan C, so clan A is better than clan C, one fact: KoRT won vs TSM 10-8 in group stage of league, so if TSM win 10-9 vs TOFU also in league does it mean that KORT is stronger than TOFU because of that?

But again, that comes against the argument that it's not really a large enough of a sample size to determine enough. The biggest evidence for that is how swings have been in your own duel vs thota. The 13-7 lead you had in the first batch, could quite easily be similar if you faced off in a normal league showdown, but does it really show you the whole picture?

And btw Bruce, that was a pretty harsh jab on Empire. In my view they've been elite for a very long time, to deem them as wannabe's seems undue.

Also CoF, interesting comment on the TLO, but I feel it also gives too much emphasis on a limited amount of players (6 in a team, no?). I think Clans usually really need more depth in order to be successful. Individual success doesn't always translate, tho you've obviously done an amazing job with your batch.

That is why we were against challenge format in league playoffs. As you have seen, there were 2 or 3 games in TSM-TOFU match that has swung deadly. In the end of the day win is tilting towards TSM but the luck can swing one of them again. The point is - 19 games are not enough to distinguish 2 great clans.