Conquer Club

yes. posalji pm liderma klanova.

uckuki wrote:yes. posalji pm liderma klanova.

now i understand this message very clear, ok,i will look all clans and send message to hear what they think

I like it.

I think it looks like a great idea.

Might be worth thinking about how to deal with clans that may disband part-way through the league, or how to squeeze in newly formed clans for subsequent years?

Ickyketseddie wrote:I think it looks like a great idea.

Might be worth thinking about how to deal with clans that may disband part-way through the league, or how to squeeze in newly formed clans for subsequent years?

disbanded clans will not play in league,simple.
New formed clan will start to play in second league.

actually looks like a great idea qwert! We think there is getting to be too many different leagues ect, but i think we would go for this one to replace the others if the other top clans would follow, really like the format.

Great-Ollie wrote:actually looks like a great idea qwert! We think there is getting to be too many different leagues ect, but i think we would go for this one to replace the others if the other top clans would follow, really like the format.

Only first season will be classify using Algoritm ranking,and then you will get clear situation for every next year, and you will perfectly know where you play each year.
Only what its need its to build universal rules,who will cover all importan things,and all possible problems who can hepend,when you play in league.

I'm pretty sure this is what jpcloet was planning to do with the "official" Clan League. It's a shame that there are multiple leagues now instead of one unified league.

this is what a league system should look like. well done qwert from what i did understand of the OP

9 games per week seems a lot to me (18 total home and away) , many clans will have way too many games going at once as trips and quads would take atleast a month to finish.

i think 2 dubs 2 trips and 2 quads every 2 weeks would be managable to clans.

Sniper08 wrote:this is what a league system should look like. well done qwert from what i did understand of the OP

9 games per week seems a lot to me (18 total home and away) , many clans will have way too many games going at once as trips and quads would take atleast a month to finish.

i think 2 dubs 2 trips and 2 quads every 2 weeks would be managable to clans.

every rule its open for change, still dont have time to check and to send link to all clan leaders, to get more diferent oppinion.

what its OP?

Original post (your first post in the topic)

uckuki wrote::)

napravi anketu medu top 10 klanovima, opipaj bilo (atmosferu)?
slabiji klanovi i mi obicni smrtnici cemo se prijavit iovako i onako, mi smo
sritni da mozemo igrat. dok je elita probirljiva, nekad oce nekad nece. kad znas
koliko ce top 10 klanova ucestvovat lakse ce ti bit slozit stvar.

stani jebote, otkud ovaj sada nas? bilo i sritni... dalmatinac? pa prika, sto se ne javis jebemu

Its been said before but:
- I like the format
- Its not the games started that is unmanageable, i think its the overlap of games that will occur because most games don't end in 1 week. I think the games will get to be too much for some players. Reducing the number of games / week played so that the overlap is more manageable. Also, I think many players will want to play other games out side of leagues as well without feeling overwhelmed with games. Not everyone can keep up a 40+ active game load, or in some of our cases 100+ game load. Haha!

- Game settings can change every 6 months to allow for a change in team play to mix things up.

- I'd be in favor of opening up all the maps. If the schedule was posted in advance, what maps were being played in the up coming league, then they can either practice or it can be a new map they get to learn how to play. This could open up some players who may feel they are locked into certain maps for whatever reason.

- I'm in favor of having set maps played consistently throughout all the games played with same settings for the reasons of comparative analysis. Again, a change every 6 months would allow for a nice change in strategies. Ie. ESC to Adjacent or something (doesn't have to be this change, but just an example). Simple change, but good teams will figure out how to play them. So so teams will get some experience and work on figuring it out, broadening their skills. Possibly add a new medal for some as well getting to play new settings they haven't tried before.

- Lastly, I'd like to see these league's (tournaments) consolidated. I know MNDuke and Icepack are making an attempt to do the same thing, by bringing more of a league format to the table.


neat idea.
.mk

I'm very much in favour of it and would support it. For a long time now I've wanted to see a clan league that operates in proper league format (and not part-league, part-knockout).

What does IcePack have to say about this though? He is creating his ICL along similar lines (no?) and I see he has already commented in this thread. What we don't want is too many - one decent league is all we want.

Some suggestions.....

- don't make it weekly, make it fortnightly (give more time for other events, otherwise it starts to become too much for some clans to keep up)
- don't do a 'game exchange' system where 2 clans swap home games. Instead just have one clan send its games to the other clan (a 'Home' week)
- later in the season those 2 clans meet again, this time the other clan sends its home games (copying the football format)

I've a lot more ideas/suggestions if they are welcome. I won't write them all down here, now. What I think the league needs to try and accomplish is to have an exciting and dynamic table that updates each fortnight (Played, Won, Lost, For, Against, Points) so we have different leaders throughout the season and a continued sense of excitement.

One more thing that I think needs consideration (and why I favour a league that runs over a long season) is the nature of the dice. There can't be many who disagree that the good & bad luck is very cyclical and it's quite common to have a run of terrible dice followed by a period of good ones. That's the problem with the current league system. Your clan can qualify for the next tier with an 80% win rate and then get mauled with a spate of bad luck in the next phase. It shouldn't be like that at all. A league should represent a healthy average of skill (and luck) over an entire season, not a group stage.

That's my two cents. Well done qwert - that's a lot of effort you have put into your proposal

CoF - while I'm committed to the ICL 2012 and it's format I have no objections to a league if that's the overwhelming support of clan leaders go to. There are many clan leagues I agree.

qwert - no offense and I totally respect you and your efforts, if you were going to run with this idea I would strongly suggest either giving reigns to a native English speaker, or taking someone on as a partner to help. I know it's not ur native language and I am in no way mocking your English ability (I only know one language, I know how difficult it is to learn another - I've tried) but it is difficult to understand you sometimes.

The idea is great, it's very similar to my tournament "The Icey League" but in clan format.
I also agree the proposed game load would be to much.

IcePack

Good points Chariot of Fire. I certainly agree, especially that last paragraph.

Curious, what is the measurement of "a fortnight?"

Two weeks

haha, I wondered about using the word 'fortnight' as I don't believe it's understood globally. It's a very useful word. I think it's a diminutive of 'fourteen nights' (fort + night), i.e. two weeks.

OK, let me state my mind about this...
first of all, i stand behind what ive said, we have way too many clan competitions... but this format, i actually like and support. classic league, no playoffs. with a bit different rules then qwert have...

- i agree with CoF about two weeks period and "home"/"away" games. in this case, id like to have 12 teams league, which would bring us to 22 rounds, 2 weeks each, 44 weeks overall. just about enough time for 2 weeks vacation during christmas and 6 free weeks for summer holidays. fits perfectly. this would probably lead to 3 division 2 leagues.... at the end of year, last six teams from division one would be demoted, and first two teams from every division two league would be promoted... and medal will be awarded only to a division one winner, reward for division two winners would be advancing to premier league
- if we go with this, then id suggest 12 games per week. 5 quads, 4 triples, 3 doubles. having 12 games every two weeks shouldnt be too much for anyone, if we have organized clan scene, so we know for what we are playing...
- if we go by home/away games, then id suggest that at beginning of every season, every clan will present their home maps, those maps will be played as their home maps for whole season. this way, everything would be set infornt, maps would be prepared as the ones home team likes and not the ones visitors are bad at... and that wouldnt kill off all the advantage of home field as at then end, well, theyd have advantage of playing that same map more times then visitors... just as it should be, slight but not decisive advantage.
- ofc if this comes alive, i think it should run instead of clan league... as i said, dont want too many clan competitions. and league format would keep all the clans busy, as you wouldnt go out once you lose a challenge. this kind of league plus CC should be more then enough... with that said, qwert should stand as no1 organizer, but he should have help from someone who is more... well, better spoken we all love qwertish, but sometimes its hardly understandable

those are just some points i think qwert might consider.

That and I would wait until ICL / CL4 is completed to try getting sign ups or a good set up may fail.

uhu uhu...

(nodding his head in a way that everyone thinks he is actually listening)

Thanks for opinions, its look that we open many ideas, so i think that we can start step by step.
First , number of LEague lvl and number of clans per League.
One question to freak

freakns wrote:OK, let me state my mind about this...
first of all, i stand behind what ive said, we have way too many clan competitions... but this format, i actually like and support. classic league, no playoffs. with a bit different rules then qwert have...

- i agree with CoF about two weeks period and "home"/"away" games. in this case, id like to have 12 teams league, which would bring us to 22 rounds, 2 weeks each, 44 weeks overall. just about enough time for 2 weeks vacation during christmas and 6 free weeks for summer holidays. fits perfectly. this would probably lead to 3 division 2 leagues.... at the end of year, last six teams from division one would be demoted, and first two teams from every division two league would be promoted... and medal will be awarded only to a division one winner, reward for division two winners would be advancing to premier league
- if we go with this, then id suggest 12 games per week. 5 quads, 4 triples, 3 doubles. having 12 games every two weeks shouldnt be too much for anyone, if we have organized clan scene, so we know for what we are playing...
- if we go by home/away games, then id suggest that at beginning of every season, every clan will present their home maps, those maps will be played as their home maps for whole season. this way, everything would be set infornt, maps would be prepared as the ones home team likes and not the ones visitors are bad at... and that wouldnt kill off all the advantage of home field as at then end, well, theyd have advantage of playing that same map more times then visitors... just as it should be, slight but not decisive advantage.
- ofc if this comes alive, i think it should run instead of clan league... as i said, dont want too many clan competitions. and league format would keep all the clans busy, as you wouldnt go out once you lose a challenge. this kind of league plus CC should be more then enough... with that said, qwert should stand as no1 organizer, but he should have help from someone who is more... well, better spoken we all love qwertish, but sometimes its hardly understandable

those are just some points i think qwert might consider.

Mine attempt its to present idea with League competition who will have 3 quality League lvl, now you want to decrease Leagues,and to create three lvl 2 division, but this then its not to much diferent then Previous Clan LEagues ,where you have to much little leagues. The bigest problem with this,its that same clans who will stay in Division two,will each year play with same clans, no changes, and this will be monotony. Also real league, need to have at least 15 clans, so that meaning of league competition ,realy mean that. If you have 12 clans, and where 6 will be relegated, then quality of Premier league, could be disturbed.
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I need time to read and answer to everybody, but its look that we open to much for start . but every sugestion and oppinion are welcome.
Lets try to start with League lvl, and how much each lvl need to have participians.
I proposed:
-Premier LEague-15 clans
-First League-15 clans
-Second leagues- up to 16 clans-minimum 8 clans (this number fulfill requirement for medal award)
(tables with relegation and promotion its on first post).
if you look on Most famous Football LEagues-Spanish-Italian-English-German, how much they have team numbers-almost every have 20 teams, and this need to implement here, not in this huge number, but 15 are perfect , so that we create quality competition.

I think 10's or 12's per level are a little more realistic. I personally like 12's.
That means premier is top 12, first is 13-24 and no matter how many back end clans sign up, they'd fill in the remiainder.

CC3 has 33?
ICL has 32
Not sure how many on CL4...but i think 24 in first two, and possibly up to 36 is a good aim for this thing next year.

IcePack

I like the setup (just like english soccer [or football for you European hooligans]). I totally agree with Lindax on one point though - I'm sick of the whole choosing home maps crap. I play this game for fun - not to spend hours learning overly complicated maps so I can beat a bunch of noobs who have no idea what they are doing. This is what clan competitions have come down to - trying to find maps you think you know better than your opponent. It's not necessary at all. Good teams will shine on standard maps with standard settings over a long enough period of time.

However, I have found that playing the same map over and over can get extremely boring (look up the tourney "Every single setting: Classic" and you will see what I mean). I would propose that the maps be random and the home team can pick the settings. This allows for:

1. Better teamwork. You may have a triples game where none of the 3 people in the game know the map. This would be where you look for people within the clan to help out and involves more than just the few people actually playing.

2. Allows map variation. That way nobody gets sick of playing classic 30+ times.

3. There is still some control left up to each clan. I know most prefer foggy, chained, and no spoils; but some people like it sunny and escalating instead. This gives the home team a slight advantage, but only slight (just like in actual sports competitions).

Just my 2 cents, but I know AoD has avoided pretty much every clan competition the last 18 months that involves "home" maps because we are bored with playing WWII Poland, New World, Waterloo, Newest niche map, etc.

(I realize this probably won't be a popular idea, but I had to put it out there)

Agree with Smithy above. Keep it very simple for one thing - it just makes everyone's lives that much easier - and don't have clans picking the same old home maps week after week. I'm fairly sure if it was to be made 'all random' and the only advantage a home team would have is to choose the settings, e.g. Esc/NoSpoils/Flat/Nuke, Chained/Adjacent/Unlimited, Sun/Fog, then it would be just as popular. In fact it would make it just a little more exciting. Then in Lindax's own words, after a whole season we end up with a 1st placed clan who is truly the best all-rounder on all maps.

Re promotion/relegation.....adopt a system such as the English football league where top 2 and bottom 3 get automatic promotion/relegation and the places 3-6 have a play-off to clinch the 3rd promotion spot. This maintains interest in the league all the way to the last round of matches even if one clan has run away with the top spot a long time before.

Lastly (for now) do not impose a cup-tied rule on any player who switches clans. It's too long a season to be sitting on the sidelines. Just like in the real game, transfers happen.

One last idea....if there are 3 different league competitions running then it's always feasible to have just one division in each of them, e.g. qwert's becomes the Premier League, the ICL becomes The Championship, and the CLA Clan League becomes the Nationwide League. This allows 3 different TOs the opportunity to run a tourney (with medals awarded in each one) and also alleviates some of the pressure because one TO running 3 x leagues is going to be bloody tough, especially in the lower division where the clans are new and inexperienced. Promotion & relegation from each of these different league tournies can be managed easily enough. Also if the CLA administers the 3rd tier competition (the 'Nationwide' league) it helps foster clan participation and education, which is what the CLA should be all about anyway.