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Delay start of Fog games
Posted:
Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:10 amby trapyoung
Concise description:- Delay start of Fog games by 12 hours after game initiates
Specifics/Details:- Team that is given first start cannot start turn for 12 hours
- 24h clock in public fog games does not start for 12 hours
- No such limitation in speed fog
How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:- There was a growing problem in Clan Matches where teams would try to join last to get advantage of seeing the map after joining last and getting first turn to put other team at a disadvantage
- The eventual compromise is for both teams to get 12 hours to look at the map and get a snapshot or take note of territories etc. before the other team can move
- As a result games are more competitive, fog games are filled faster and it's facilitated less gamesmanship in how games are joined (no advantage to joining second)
- But this problem is not yet addressed in public games - if fog game is active and team 2 joins and gets first start, team 1 is at a double disadvantage because (1) miss out on initial deploy and (2) are unaware where territories are lost or where the opponent was because fog won't reveal
Re: Delay start of Fog games
Posted:
Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:20 pmby Teflon Kris
Seconded - good idea
Re: Delay start of Fog games
Posted:
Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:30 pmby Arama86n
Sounds good.
Personally I see no reason why suggestions like this and the "delay start of speed freestyle 30 second" shouldn't be implemented.
Now let us await the "life isn't fair, and niether is CC, what about drop, starting first bla bla bla..." counterarguments
Re: Delay start of Fog games
Posted:
Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:23 pmby edwinissweet
What about if instead od delaying the game, there was a log of all the deployments you made in manual?
Re: Delay start of Fog games
Posted:
Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:40 amby drunkmonkey
I'd also like to see the name of the territory you lost in the fog. The way it works now doesn't make sense. If I'm playing Classic foggy, and I lose Jakarta, I should see:
[opponent] assaulted Jakarta from ? and conquered it from drunkmonkey
*NOT*
[opponent] assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from drunkmonkey
It's like my general got a report saying, "Sir, we just lost 5 troops, but we have no idea where they were."
Re: Delay start of Fog games
Posted:
Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:48 amby Darwins_Bane
drunkmonkey wrote:I'd also like to see the name of the territory you lost in the fog. The way it works now doesn't make sense. If I'm playing Classic foggy, and I lose Jakarta, I should see:
[opponent] assaulted Jakarta from ? and conquered it from drunkmonkey
*NOT*
[opponent] assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from drunkmonkey
It's like my general got a report saying, "Sir, we just lost 5 troops, but we have no idea where they were."
this has been a gripe and source of much debate for a long time...and there are many threads about it.
Re: Delay start of Fog games
Posted:
Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:27 amby trapyoung
I agree with drunkmonkey that something like that would help and replace the need for this suggestion. I would even like it better though if it said where ? was unless it was a bombard move and you wouldn't be able to see the territory anyway. If you would be able to know what happened by just watching the guy take the turn while fog is up, the game chat should reflect that even if you're not there to see it. So if you forted 1 from a territory not hidden by fog to a territory hidden by fog it should say "[Opponent] fortified ? from London with 1 army"
But in lieu of that I feel like the next best thing would be to delay the start of fog games. The only problem would be individuals in callouts who are freemium and want to set up a fog 1v1 and do it real time. But that problem is is that is a de facto speed game which I would have the suggestion not affect, it's just everyone can't win
Re: Delay start of Fog games
Posted:
Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:31 amby Darwins_Bane
trapyoung wrote:I agree with drunkmonkey that something like that would help and replace the need for this suggestion. I would even like it better though if it said where ? was unless it was a bombard move and you wouldn't be able to see the territory anyway. If you would be able to know what happened by just watching the guy take the turn while fog is up, the game chat should reflect that even if you're not there to see it. So if you forted 1 from a territory not hidden by fog to a territory hidden by fog it should say "[Opponent] fortified ? from London with 1 army"
the problem with that is say you, drunkmonkey and i are playing a game. the two of you may see london but I don't. so then you're looking at individualized logs, which would take up a lot more server space then just one common log for each game. Though i do realize that there is already a personalized log for foggy. so it may be do-able. I'm just bringing it up as a consideration.
Wait periods in Fog games
Posted:
Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:00 pmby ljex
Concise description: A wait period of 24 hours so people can see how the board started in fog games
Specifics/Details: Have a meaningless round one that will only serve to let people see how the map is at the start of the game. Similar to how manual deployment works on a city mogul game where you have a deploy phase but you dont actually deploy anything.
How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:It will take away the small advantage those who go first in fog of war games have and make the game more fair. It will also stop a lot of problems with clan wars where everyone fights to join last so that they can get snapshots.
Re: Wait periods in Fog games
Posted:
Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:01 pmby pmchugh
As ijex already knows I support this 100%.
This would create a fairer game and also stop silly disputes between clans.
Re: Wait periods in Fog games
Posted:
Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:58 pmby Joodoo
Exceptionally useful for freestyle games.
Re: Wait periods in Fog games
Posted:
Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:23 pmby jefjef
lol. No thank you. I almost exclusively play FOG - do not use screen shots and prefer not to have my active games delayed whether I go 1st or not. (I hardly get to move 1st)
IT'S PART OF THE CHALLENGE OF PLAYING FOG.
Re: Wait periods in Fog games
Posted:
Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:46 pmby TheForgivenOne
This would completely ruin a lot of RT games for players that like to play on Fog of War. Maybe have it as an option.
Re: Wait periods in Fog games
Posted:
Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:02 amby ljex
TheForgivenOne wrote:This would completely ruin a lot of RT games for players that like to play on Fog of War. Maybe have it as an option.
no it wouldn't, players would select begin turn and then get to do nothing, then press end deployment. Similar to what you do for the manual round on city mogul. Thus the players in a rt game would just have to do that and then play the rest of it rt similar to now.
Re: Wait periods in Fog games
Posted:
Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:47 amby lord voldemort
i dont think its needed...
i like the dual for snapshots.
I also think that any decent team will give you time to get snaps/wont be taking turns right away as to discuss what to do.
On the other side any team who rushes that first turn to hide the board prolly arent a decent team and you wont have an issue
Re: Wait periods in Fog games
Posted:
Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:36 amby rdsrds2120
ljex wrote:TheForgivenOne wrote:This would completely ruin a lot of RT games for players that like to play on Fog of War. Maybe have it as an option.
no it wouldn't, players would select begin turn and then get to do nothing, then press end deployment. Similar to what you do for the manual round on city mogul. Thus the players in a rt game would just have to do that and then play the rest of it rt similar to now.
Careful, you can't tell people that something would/wouldn't be ruined for them. The option seems like a nice idea, and this reminds me of the FS double turn fix we had awhile back - just for fog instead. I think it's a nifty idea; especially in manual casual where a player can get a lot of his 1's taken off the board quickly for going second, which is a very large disadvantage. It would be like how some people choose manual for non-deploy maps (City Mogul etc) when it's freestyle to reduce the advantage the last person that joins has.
Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:29 pmby HighlanderAttack
I suggest that when a fog game is initialized there is a one round or even a half a round delay before player one can take their first turn. There could be a button to press that says "seen drop-start" or something like that. This would allow fairness of seeing what the drop was prior to the first player taking their turn. The button could allow the game to start faster after all players have clicked on it stating they have seen the drop-let's get the game started.
I believe this would benefit the site greatly because it would make foggy games much more competitive and take away the advantage of going first. It would stop players from waiting to join fog games last just to see the drop and gain an unfair advantage. Many players show courtesy and allow their opponent(s) to see the drop before taking a turn anyway. This would just guarantee it.
Re: Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:46 pmby jefjef
If ya wanna see whats going on then don't play fog.
I mostly only play fog games. Mostly team 1. I don't always get to see the drop. Oh well. Thats all part of the game.
Re: Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:24 pmby HighlanderAttack
jefjef wrote:If ya wanna see whats going on then don't play fog.
I mostly only play fog games. Mostly team 1. I don't always get to see the drop. Oh well. Thats all part of the game.
I like fog too--but it should start off fairly--I usually even send a pm to my opponent out of courtesy so they get to see the drop before the game actually begins--this has nothing to do with preference between foggy and sunny.
Re: Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:54 pmby trapyoung
Re: Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:13 pmby TheForgivenOne
Merged
Re: Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:00 amby squishyg
In the spirit of compromise, I support this idea. Clearly many feel passionate about this issue, and as it's no inconvenience to wait since the 24 hour clock hasn't started, I see no reason to oppose this suggestion.
Re: Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:41 amby SirSebstar
I concur that this would be a good rule in clan and tournament games, but this is a very bad idea to hardcode. e.g. what if someone plays once every 24 hours? i cannot be online every hour, so if i need to wait 12 hours, i will just have to miss my turn, or something
Re: Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:42 pmby blakebowling
I don't like this, for reasons stated above, especially the fact that I'm not able to be on all the time. However, I would be fully in support of being able to see the territories you started with.
Re: Fog Delay the start
Posted:
Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:11 pmby TheForgivenOne
I think what trapyoung wanted was a 12 hour delay, THEN the 24 hour clock starts. Not 12 hour delay then you have 12 hours to take your turn.