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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:32 am

Thank you Cof,Nicky, and Denth.

I believe CoF is going the route that has been suggested before on the 0 points until a better grasp of the game and some maps are gained. And it has merit you are less likely to go after a player and gain nothing from it.

Keeping them Red and Blue would most likely make them a bigger target when scanning the scoreboard,easier to pick out. But hiding their rank and stats for X amount of games could be an option.

The reason I originally brought up SoC as a option for training, I believe they were thinking of expanding out on their maps and going to try to incorporate team games into the SoC.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby IcePack on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:58 am

I've been here over a year, and I would not have (and haven't) signed up for a training program. It probably would have detracted from the site if i had to run through it.

I disagree with people getting no points until a certain point, one of the bigger draws for me was immediately being able to play and earn points to upgrade the rank, and trying the different settings. Like I said ive been here awhile and i dont think ive played all maps yet...(maybe?) but would i still be getting "0" points on the ones i haven't played?

Sounds like a poor solution, not in favor. I dont think its a widespread problem.

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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:18 am

I believe the idea is to withhold showing the points until they have X amount of games played. Once that is accomplished the points would then be auto displayed.
They would not be playing and getting no point's. This would keep farmer's from seeing what points they had and couldn't touch them anyway.

If you were farming would you play someone intentionally you couldnt get points from? Until after say their 50 game.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby IcePack on Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:34 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:I believe the idea is to withhold showing the points until they have X amount of games played. Once that is accomplished the points would then be auto displayed.
They would not be playing and getting no point's. This would keep farmer's from seeing what points they had and couldn't touch them anyway.

If you were farming would you play someone intentionally you couldnt get points from? Until after say their 50 game.


Would the player know what his points were currently at? Because like i said, it was one of the best things about being a new player and seeing your points and rank change. I know some of my friends BIGGEST complaints as new players was that the ? stayed longer then they wanted, they wanted to see their current rank move up and down when they won / lost.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:11 pm

I believe it would be best if the player knew, that way he would know what his progression was, And the incentive would be to get more points and rank.

And if their points,rank and stats were fogged, It would be a big risk for a farmer or rancher to play them.

scenario I am a rancher or farmer and I am looking for new victims I come across a blanked out player with just a user name. Hey this guy is new or realtivity new, wow free points I will invite them to a game or 2.

Because you couldnt see anything but their username you set up 2 games with your favorite map and settings
BooM bad news this guy is good at this map and loves these settings, A) because he just likes it or B)SoC or some mentor taught it to him.

Wah Wah your farming backside just got handed to you for a major loss of points.

Hey but there is an upside to losing those games you learned (maybe) not to try it anymore and you probably lost a spot or to on the Scoreboard.

Win, Win, Situation all around for everyone.

Downside you win congratulations, this person now knows what you are and foes you and doesnt accept anymore invites from dubious players.

Again Win,Win, situation
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:13 pm

What is the purpose of the farming rule?

This is my opinion not an official comment. I think the reason there is a 5 game limit is to give the new player a chance to understand how the mechanics of the site work not to protect their points.

What most suggestions regarding "farming" put more limits on what players can or can't do. Another solution would be to eliminate all other maps except Classic. How many would like that? I don't think you would because it would limit your choices.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:38 pm

Thanks Semp but I think the 5 game limit is outdated. It may have been good back at the beginning of CC, because the maps and styles of gameplay were limited to basically the board game type of play. Not sure on that but Someone will correct me if I was wrong.

The new maps and game style's are not what the ? expect when they get invited into games, they are in over their heads.

And how do ? know that it is not standard for CC to play X amount of games in some of the mentioned formats.
If it changed and a ? joins they will think it is standard for the site, And they have got time enough to learn about how the Maps work.

I keep seeing over and over about not forcing someone to do this. But if a new player joins and doesnt like it because they got Farmed or ranched, Will they come back, will they tell their friends about CC in a manner that they will want to join.

Or if they join will they see a tutorial that alot of games and game sites have and go,ok not a problem.
Almost every video game on the market has a tutorial. World of Warcraft had a tutorial dont know if it still does, A much bigger site I think.
In the above mentioned scenarios everyone pays to play and goes through a tutorial. And yet they still buy video games and play on those sites.

The only reason I see that this would be put down is if Farming and Ranching were being overlooked as a problem that doesnt need to be solved.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby greenoaks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:57 am

jgordon1111 wrote:I believe the idea is to withhold showing the points until they have X amount of games played. Once that is accomplished the points would then be auto displayed.
They would not be playing and getting no point's. This would keep farmer's from seeing what points they had and couldn't touch them anyway.

If you were farming would you play someone intentionally you couldnt get points from? Until after say their 50 game.

there isn't a problem with farming NR's. people who do get reported and warned or banned. the system we currently have works fine.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:02 am

Thank you for your view greenoaks. But in some cases you are incorrect, And I am not just talking farming But Ranching as well.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby DoomYoshi on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:21 am

Mandatory training is not a great idea. Some of us played a similar game published by Hasbro as a nightly family event. To say that we would have to be trained befor being allowed to play is silly.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby greenoaks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:33 am

jgordon1111 wrote:Thank you for your view greenoaks. But in some cases you are incorrect, And I am not just talking farming But Ranching as well.

if you believe that the current rules against farming are not working then give some examples of where it did not.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:14 am

Yes alot of us here played the hasbro version Doom, But that game is so far removed from the current styles and maps you might as well compare Bell's first phone to todays cell phone's.

Therefore anyone who thinks that new players here can after 5 games be ready for the maps and styles of play on CC is most likely wrong.

And players already here wont have to go thru a tutorial, so why are players already here trying to guess what new players might or might not do to play here.

I find it odd that players who have been here for a while dont realize the changes in the site are far different than when they first started.
It really seems like some players dont want a change because they dont want new players to have a chance.

Alot of games I have been in players complaining about noobs making mistakes or ruining the game and then some of them just not taking their turns.
Why because they most likely got in over their heads and because of the experiance left the site or came back as multi's

This proposal should handle most of these problems along with the Farming and Ranching.

And no greenoaks you know as well as I do who has been accused recently so I will not go into something that will get this off topic
The only purpose here is to try and bring about change not to fall into another accusation flaming and baiting topic that derails most suggestions.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby greenoaks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:26 am

jgordon1111 wrote:And no greenoaks you know as well as I do who has been accused recently so I will not go into something that will get this off topic
The only purpose here is to try and bring about change not to fall into another accusation flaming and baiting topic that derails most suggestions.

no i don't.

i can't recall a single case of farming new recruits that was not dealt with appropriately.

once again, please provide examples of where the system has gone wrong.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:49 am

greenoaks would be glad to debate with you in a different forum,please feel free to start a new topic on it. But quit, if you would trying to derail a topic that is not about specific people farming or their punishment or lack of. If you dont think some players are accused of it right now please go and read the C&A forum and get caught up. Now having said that,if you have a helpful significant contribution to this topic please feel free to advance it.

up until now everyone has made their statements for or against, you already posted your view. And you are allowed to have it.

But you are now at the point of trying to bait me on this topic. Your exact view has been noted. Nothing wrong with the site, ? are sore losers if they leave. Thank you for your opinion,but this topic is directed toward those that have a different opinion than yours.

So with that out of the way. Again I reiterate you should really have nothing left to say here. Responses from here will be considered as baiting and flaming.

Feel free to open a topic saying I am wrong there.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby greenoaks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:06 am

jgordon1111 wrote:greenoaks would be glad to debate with you in a different forum,please feel free to start a new topic on it. But quit, if you would trying to derail a topic that is not about specific people farming or their punishment or lack of. If you dont think some players are accused of it right now please go and read the C&A forum and get caught up. Now having said that,if you have a helpful significant contribution to this topic please feel free to advance it.

up until now everyone has made their statements for or against, you already posted your view. And you are allowed to have it.

But you are now at the point of trying to bait me on this topic. Your exact view has been noted. Nothing wrong with the site, ? are sore losers if they leave. Thank you for your opinion,but this topic is directed toward those that have a different opinion than yours.

So with that out of the way. Again I reiterate you should really have nothing left to say here. Responses from here will be considered as baiting and flaming.

Feel free to open a topic saying I am wrong there.

you keep saying there is a problem with farming of new recruits but i have not seen any evidence of it provided in this thread or any other, including the C&A forum.

how can i voice my support if you can't show me where the problem is?
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby Geger on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:02 am

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

Greenoaks is right, the existing rule is good enough to protect the new recruits. The problem lies in the period after the fifth game ended. Many people suggest to add more games (20, 30 or even 100), because 5 games are not enough, because CC become more complex.

But on the other hand, this addition could be counterproductive, because it avoids a bunch of friends to play together and the fact that new recruits are uncomfortable with a "?" in front of their names. They certainly want to get a rank quickly.

Well here I see the suggestion given by jgordon quite interesting. Let me phrase it another way.

As far as I understand it, jgordon proposed a new division of players into "original" new recruit and "expanded" new recruit (just find a more suitable term please ;) ). Original New recruit is like what we have now, they have 5 games to finish and is protected by current rule. While on the expanded New recruit (until 20, 30 or ...) would be a system introduced, where points, rankings and their history can not be seen by other players. The advantage of this system, can be seen in the previous jgordon posts.

But as I told jgordon via pm, there is a big gap in this idea, that very easily exploited by other players.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:58 am

Perhaps a solution, based on a concept raised by another member, is to have certain maps 'unlock' after a degree of experience playing CC. Most new recruits know the Classic map, that's a given, and other straightforward maps could be added to that catalogue for new recruits to play. But certain others (City Mogul, Waterloo, Oasis, etc) require a better understanding of things like freestyle, manual deploys, fog of war, etc etc (things that to the average newcomer to CC are totally foreign to the board game they thought they knew). A mere 5 games' experience is paltry considering the many maps and variables now available on this site, therefore it would protect an inexperienced player if he/she was to have to take steps towards unlocking the more complex maps (esp those renowned for farming).
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby eddie2 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:30 am

na there is a very simple and easy solution to all of this.

at present once a player gets to 5 games they become a cadet .

so my thoughts are as follows.

rank of cadet
they are open to all stripe and cook ranks(but cannot play any games with leiutenant or above) they stay as cadets for a set amount of games maybe 50 until this should give them the time to get a understanding of settings and maps. after this amount of time they are released from cadet rank if they have 1200 (this can be changed)points or more. or they stay at cadet until they reach the point limit.. this would prevent officers from farming them.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby anonymus on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:33 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:Perhaps a solution, based on a concept raised by another member, is to have certain maps 'unlock' after a degree of experience playing CC. Most new recruits know the Classic map, that's a given, and other straightforward maps could be added to that catalogue for new recruits to play. But certain others (City Mogul, Waterloo, Oasis, etc) require a better understanding of things like freestyle, manual deploys, fog of war, etc etc (things that to the average newcomer to CC are totally foreign to the board game they thought they knew). A mere 5 games' experience is paltry considering the many maps and variables now available on this site, therefore it would protect an inexperienced player if he/she was to have to take steps towards unlocking the more complex maps (esp those renowned for farming).


i think this would work.. it also gives an incentive to come back since you unlock achievements and get rewards along the way.. i don't see the harm in locking some maps/settings as well as keeping say the 5 first games points-free as tutorial games.. and then game 5-20 would be about unlocking certain settings/maps..

every computer-game in the world uses this structure of rewards for completing tasks.. makes us humans feel all warm and fuzzy inside..

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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby greenoaks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:54 am

anonymus wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Perhaps a solution, based on a concept raised by another member, is to have certain maps 'unlock' after a degree of experience playing CC. Most new recruits know the Classic map, that's a given, and other straightforward maps could be added to that catalogue for new recruits to play. But certain others (City Mogul, Waterloo, Oasis, etc) require a better understanding of things like freestyle, manual deploys, fog of war, etc etc (things that to the average newcomer to CC are totally foreign to the board game they thought they knew). A mere 5 games' experience is paltry considering the many maps and variables now available on this site, therefore it would protect an inexperienced player if he/she was to have to take steps towards unlocking the more complex maps (esp those renowned for farming).


i think this would work.. it also gives an incentive to come back since you unlock achievements and get rewards along the way.. i don't see the harm in locking some maps/settings as well as keeping say the 5 first games points-free as tutorial games.. and then game 5-20 would be about unlocking certain settings/maps..

every computer-game in the world uses this structure of rewards for completing tasks.. makes us humans feel all warm and fuzzy inside..

/ :?:

unfortunately that was suggested extensively and repeatedly a while back and rejected
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:11 am

Greensoaks, If It hasnt been closed I believe one person that is being looked into right now is alstergeen for alot of ? and ranching.

But again,This topic is for those that think a change is needed. and all ideas are welcome.
Another possible case thanks to Irish Ace is raston_morue who is on his second reoprt of this with achilles telling him to up the player numbers to keep from farming,but he doesnt
Last edited by jgordon1111 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:32 am

Greenoaks, do you know why the above suggestions were rejected?
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby anonymus on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:49 am

greenoaks wrote:
anonymus wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Perhaps a solution, based on a concept raised by another member, is to have certain maps 'unlock' after a degree of experience playing CC. Most new recruits know the Classic map, that's a given, and other straightforward maps could be added to that catalogue for new recruits to play. But certain others (City Mogul, Waterloo, Oasis, etc) require a better understanding of things like freestyle, manual deploys, fog of war, etc etc (things that to the average newcomer to CC are totally foreign to the board game they thought they knew). A mere 5 games' experience is paltry considering the many maps and variables now available on this site, therefore it would protect an inexperienced player if he/she was to have to take steps towards unlocking the more complex maps (esp those renowned for farming).


i think this would work.. it also gives an incentive to come back since you unlock achievements and get rewards along the way.. i don't see the harm in locking some maps/settings as well as keeping say the 5 first games points-free as tutorial games.. and then game 5-20 would be about unlocking certain settings/maps..

every computer-game in the world uses this structure of rewards for completing tasks.. makes us humans feel all warm and fuzzy inside..

/ :?:

unfortunately that was suggested extensively and repeatedly a while back and rejected


hmm, any reason as to why? other than no more easy pickings for a select few?

/ :?:
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby jgordon1111 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:10 am

That was a possible point that I had mentioned earlier anonymus.

The point I was going to bring up after greenoaks posted, (most likley not enough support) Is this
for some reason on this sight as soon as one or two nay sayers hit the forum saying they dont like it, for usually a reason like ? wont want to do that.
The suggestion dies, Not because it cant be done, but because those entrenched in CC say someone else not even here yet wont like it.

The gall and audacity of the mind readers here shocks me. The site rules are outdated in some circumstances, 5 game rule for instance.

Unfortunantley I am like a pitbull once I start something, I keep fighting I dont accept, It just cant be done or Thats just the way it is.
I have to have a clear concise reason of why it cant be done.
And thats just the way it is, LOL thats saying we want it that why because we like it. (We want easy Wins).

If lack can write the programs to put this site up and run it, I think He can make the adjustments to change the 5 game for ? to be a little safer and capable on the site.
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Re: It's Easy to stop Farming and Ranching (Revised)

Postby DoomYoshi on Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:43 am

When I first started the Stalingrad, oasis, city mogul and a variety of other farming maps were already available. I am trying to guess what new players would want because at one point I was a new player. I remember almost winning my first nuclear game, even though I didn't know what nukes were and I thought ... Nukes is the coolest thing ever, I have to keep plying. But enought about me.

Forcing players to go through a tutorial is lame unless there is an option to skip it. Basically, forcing players to go through SoC doesn't make sense because it only teaches Risk... Not the hard maps anyways.

Perhaps, in the initial signup email, we could send out a link to a few key places.

1)SoC thread
2) strategy guide thread
3) list of ? Approved maps.

That way players can make an educated choice about whether or not they want it jump in and get thwomped or if they want to spend some time studying. I personally think that this is one of the more newbie-friendly gaming sites on the web, that is basically why I picked it. I don't play WoW because there are too many people who have more time that I can never catch up with.
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