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agentcom wrote:Also, Symmetry may not feel this way, but each player has a certain sum of medals and that number is tracked on the scoreboard. For each medal that someone gets, they vault up many, many places on that scoreboard, and they push everyone at their old total down one notch. So even though you may not see it when looking at your wall, when you look at the scoreboard, giving out "unearned" medals does devalue the medals of other people.
I'm lucky enough to be at 69 medals, but getting another medal for me jumps me over 10 people, and likewise pushes those 10 people down a notch. The effects are even more extreme as you go down the list. At 30 medals, there's over 50 people, for example.
patrickaa317 wrote:Right, I'm 36 on the medal scoreboard. Unfortunately a lot of people including myself at the top of this list have 20+ medals from running tournaments. If you erased medals due to cheating, you cannot fairly erase tournament creation medals since they obviously have nothing to do with cheating.
Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Right, I'm 36 on the medal scoreboard. Unfortunately a lot of people including myself at the top of this list have 20+ medals from running tournaments. If you erased medals due to cheating, you cannot fairly erase tournament creation medals since they obviously have nothing to do with cheating.
Yes you can, if the point of the medal reset is a deterrence effect.
patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Right, I'm 36 on the medal scoreboard. Unfortunately a lot of people including myself at the top of this list have 20+ medals from running tournaments. If you erased medals due to cheating, you cannot fairly erase tournament creation medals since they obviously have nothing to do with cheating.
Yes you can, if the point of the medal reset is a deterrence effect.
I am still not sure why we don't just boot the cheaters in general? If we are ok with giving them a second chance, why not give them a true second chance rather than stripping medals that may have had nothing to do with their cheating.
"That sucks you cheated, we still want you here but I'm going to strip you of all your medals. But you still have a second or third chance."
Symmetry wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Right, I'm 36 on the medal scoreboard. Unfortunately a lot of people including myself at the top of this list have 20+ medals from running tournaments. If you erased medals due to cheating, you cannot fairly erase tournament creation medals since they obviously have nothing to do with cheating.
Yes you can, if the point of the medal reset is a deterrence effect.
I am still not sure why we don't just boot the cheaters in general? If we are ok with giving them a second chance, why not give them a true second chance rather than stripping medals that may have had nothing to do with their cheating.
"That sucks you cheated, we still want you here but I'm going to strip you of all your medals. But you still have a second or third chance."
I'd say, if they want to stay and play fair, they should be given the chance to earn them back again fairly.
patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Right, I'm 36 on the medal scoreboard. Unfortunately a lot of people including myself at the top of this list have 20+ medals from running tournaments. If you erased medals due to cheating, you cannot fairly erase tournament creation medals since they obviously have nothing to do with cheating.
Yes you can, if the point of the medal reset is a deterrence effect.
I am still not sure why we don't just boot the cheaters in general? If we are ok with giving them a second chance, why not give them a true second chance rather than stripping medals that may have had nothing to do with their cheating.
"That sucks you cheated, we still want you here but I'm going to strip you of all your medals. But you still have a second or third chance."
I'd say, if they want to stay and play fair, they should be given the chance to earn them back again fairly.
They may have earned their medals fairly the first time. if you are limiting the stripping to ONLY medals that could have been gained due to cheating, you have my support immediately.
Symmetry wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Right, I'm 36 on the medal scoreboard. Unfortunately a lot of people including myself at the top of this list have 20+ medals from running tournaments. If you erased medals due to cheating, you cannot fairly erase tournament creation medals since they obviously have nothing to do with cheating.
Yes you can, if the point of the medal reset is a deterrence effect.
I am still not sure why we don't just boot the cheaters in general? If we are ok with giving them a second chance, why not give them a true second chance rather than stripping medals that may have had nothing to do with their cheating.
"That sucks you cheated, we still want you here but I'm going to strip you of all your medals. But you still have a second or third chance."
I'd say, if they want to stay and play fair, they should be given the chance to earn them back again fairly.
They may have earned their medals fairly the first time. if you are limiting the stripping to ONLY medals that could have been gained due to cheating, you have my support immediately.
That is very much my argument. There's been a fair bit of back and forth working out how to modify the original suggestion here, but yeah, only medals gained due to cheating. I agree.
Symmetry wrote:OP updated.
Symmetry wrote:OP updated.
Metsfanmax wrote:Symmetry wrote:OP updated.
It is too vague. It needs to be something specific that a developer can do. Like, "people who are busted for cheating should have all Game Achievement medals that were possibly gained by their cheating stripped."
Metsfanmax wrote:Symmetry wrote:OP updated.
It is too vague. It needs to be something specific that a developer can do. Like, "people who are busted for cheating should have all Game Achievement medals stripped."
patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:Symmetry wrote:OP updated.
It is too vague. It needs to be something specific that a developer can do. Like, "people who are busted for cheating should have all Game Achievement medals that were possibly gained by their cheating stripped."
fixed
Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:Symmetry wrote:OP updated.
It is too vague. It needs to be something specific that a developer can do. Like, "people who are busted for cheating should have all Game Achievement medals that were possibly gained by their cheating stripped."
fixed
This sounds nice, but is not good in practice. It requires C&A mods to sift through and determine which medals were possibly affected by their cheating status. Frankly, I'm not going to ask that of them.
patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:Symmetry wrote:OP updated.
It is too vague. It needs to be something specific that a developer can do. Like, "people who are busted for cheating should have all Game Achievement medals that were possibly gained by their cheating stripped."
fixed
This sounds nice, but is not good in practice. It requires C&A mods to sift through and determine which medals were possibly affected by their cheating status. Frankly, I'm not going to ask that of them.
Completely understandable on that. I wouldn't expect that of them either. And I don't support a suggestion where all medals are removed, even the ones that were gained outside of cheating.
Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:Symmetry wrote:OP updated.
It is too vague. It needs to be something specific that a developer can do. Like, "people who are busted for cheating should have all Game Achievement medals that were possibly gained by their cheating stripped."
fixed
This sounds nice, but is not good in practice. It requires C&A mods to sift through and determine which medals were possibly affected by their cheating status. Frankly, I'm not going to ask that of them.
Completely understandable on that. I wouldn't expect that of them either. And I don't support a suggestion where all medals are removed, even the ones that were gained outside of cheating.
So I think that removal of Game Achievement medals is the best compromise we can achieve, and we either submit that or we submit nothing. You all can decide.
chapcrap wrote:Can we just add an option to the rules that allows medal stripping as part of punishments? (Which is already is)
I guess I just don't REALLY see what needs implemented here. This is more about policy than anything else, right? I don't see what is needing to be implemented here.
Is the consensus on if the player should be able to re-earn the medals that are stripped? If the need to be able to then yes those victories would somehow need to be able to be subtracted. (Question: Should beating the same opponents that they did to get the medal the first time count towards getting it back?) If they don't need to be able to get the medals again then instead there needs to be a way to simply block the medal from be reissued automatically.Metsfanmax wrote:Basically, the problem is that if you take away a game achievement medal right now (say, standard) and then you win another standard game, we think that the medal will be automatically awarded because you have more than the number of wins required for the medal. So you would need to code in some way of awarding medals that subtracts out all games before the date of the bust.chapcrap wrote:Can we just add an option to the rules that allows medal stripping as part of punishments? (Which is already is)
I guess I just don't REALLY see what needs implemented here. This is more about policy than anything else, right? I don't see what is needing to be implemented here.
Metsfanmax wrote:chapcrap wrote:Can we just add an option to the rules that allows medal stripping as part of punishments? (Which is already is)
I guess I just don't REALLY see what needs implemented here. This is more about policy than anything else, right? I don't see what is needing to be implemented here.
Basically, the problem is that if you take away a game achievement medal right now (say, standard) and then you win another standard game, we think that the medal will be automatically awarded because you have more than the number of wins required for the medal. So you would need to code in some way of awarding medals that subtracts out all games before the date of the bust.
chapcrap wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:chapcrap wrote:Can we just add an option to the rules that allows medal stripping as part of punishments? (Which is already is)
I guess I just don't REALLY see what needs implemented here. This is more about policy than anything else, right? I don't see what is needing to be implemented here.
Basically, the problem is that if you take away a game achievement medal right now (say, standard) and then you win another standard game, we think that the medal will be automatically awarded because you have more than the number of wins required for the medal. So you would need to code in some way of awarding medals that subtracts out all games before the date of the bust.
Oh yeah, I guess I'm the one who pointed that out earlier. I just assumed that victories would be stripped along with the medals. Games can be deleted, so there you go.
chapcrap wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:chapcrap wrote:Can we just add an option to the rules that allows medal stripping as part of punishments? (Which is already is)
I guess I just don't REALLY see what needs implemented here. This is more about policy than anything else, right? I don't see what is needing to be implemented here.
Basically, the problem is that if you take away a game achievement medal right now (say, standard) and then you win another standard game, we think that the medal will be automatically awarded because you have more than the number of wins required for the medal. So you would need to code in some way of awarding medals that subtracts out all games before the date of the bust.
Oh yeah, I guess I'm the one who pointed that out earlier. I just assumed that victories would be stripped along with the medals. Games can be deleted, so there you go.
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