Conquer Club

If there was a way that games could be reviewed in a graphical time-lapse replay (like a slideshow), it would be VERY helpful. Like a movie of all rounds in a game. It will allow us to learn from past mistakes, and to see where we went wrong, and to analyze moves of all players.

It would be most helpful if the feature was available during games. Especially when games go past something like 40 rounds, you forget what happened in the beginning.

Another cool feature that could be derived from such a capability is the ability to upload the replay of a game into a specific section so that all players can see exceptional Victories submitted by everyone. We can even vote on which games were the best, selecting like a monthly "Top 10 Epic Victories". I am sure ConquerClub can build a pretty awesome library pretty soon...

A lot of amazing things happen on ConquerClub... it would be pretty sweet if there was a way to collect the best fought games in one place. If for nothing else, then for educational purposes alone.

Just a thought...

c0de wrote:If there was a way that games could be reviewed in a graphical time-lapse replay (like a slideshow), it would be VERY helpful. Like a movie of all the moves made by all players, round by round. It will allow us to learn from past mistakes, and to see where we went wrong, and to analyze moves of all players.

It would be most helpful if the feature was available during games. Especially when games go past something like 40 rounds, you forget what happened in the beginning.

Another cool feature that could be derived from such a capability is the ability to upload the replay of a game into a specific section so that all players can see Epic Victories of Top Players. That would be pretty sweet.

Just a thought...

Having a script that does what you are suggesting would give a player a great advantage in a fog of war game. If you really want to do this you could take screenshots of each round . I see the advantages you are suggesting but disagree with the idea.

Please use the form in future !

Hey MB,

I think it would make sense not to allow the Replay option for games in which Fog is enabled. But even with those games, we could review the games after they have ended.

We've long wanted to upgrade to Game Log 2.0---which would include failed assaults (I.E. where you do not conquer and take over a territory) and all sorts of other meaty information not currently in the game log---and with a game log like 2.0 someone would theoretically be able to create a "Replay Script."

However, Game Log 2.0 is a massive under taking---simply because of the amount of new data that we would be storing. Consider how many successful assaults you take in a game, and then add failed assaults to the mix, along with some other information---loads and loads of data! We'd have to make sure that we've enough store space to make everything run smoothly for an extended period of time---I.E. it'd have to be beneficial and cost effective. But it is something I hope to see in the future.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:We've long wanted to upgrade to Game Log 2.0---which would include failed assaults (I.E. where you do not conquer and take over a territory) and all sorts of other meaty information not currently in the game log---and with a game log like 2.0 someone would theoretically be able to create a "Replay Script."

However, Game Log 2.0 is a massive under taking---simply because of the amount of new data that we would be storing. Consider how many successful assaults you take in a game, and then add failed assaults to the mix, along with some other information---loads and loads of data! We'd have to make sure that we've enough store space to make everything run smoothly for an extended period of time---I.E. it'd have to be beneficial and cost effective. But it is something I hope to see in the future.


--Andy

Now I remember why I was so excited in December of 2006 when I thought this would be added

What if the data was only stored for a limited time (one or two weeks max). The user has the option to save the data to their personal computer once the game finishes, so then playbacks could be created and saved interminably without storing space on the server. If the data is not downloaded within 2 weeks it disappears.

Failed assault in game log? Why in the world would that be a good thing?

sully800 wrote:Now I remember why I was so excited in December of 2006 when I thought this would be added

What if the data was only stored for a limited time (one or two weeks max). The user has the option to save the data to their personal computer once the game finishes, so then playbacks could be created and saved interminably without storing space on the server. If the data is not downloaded within 2 weeks it disappears.

This was an option we discussed at one time I remember---a limited time where all the information would be available, and then after said time it would be just the standard information we keep. I'm unsure of what the code would be like to allow for limited time the data, and then to dump it after said period of time.


--Andy

this tool would also make it easier to catch cheaters. Reviewing the game log does not tell the whole story when it comes to collusion.

I strongly agree that a replay feature would be great! It can be active only after finishing a game so you can analyze your and the opponents strategy, mistakes and learn, but you dont get any advantage in an active game. Also it would be fun to replay good games like in chess the grand masters plays
Can we vote somewhere on new features like this?

I always envisioned this for after game use. So you could go back and look at a game at X speed.

A Graphical "Replay/Review" Option would be amazing

...It certainly would be amazing, it certainly would .

AndyDufresne wrote:We've long wanted to upgrade to Game Log 2.0---which would include failed assaults (I.E. where you do not conquer and take over a territory) and all sorts of other meaty information not currently in the game log---and with a game log like 2.0 someone would theoretically be able to create a "Replay Script."

However, Game Log 2.0 is a massive under taking---simply because of the amount of new data that we would be storing. Consider how many successful assaults you take in a game, and then add failed assaults to the mix, along with some other information---loads and loads of data! We'd have to make sure that we've enough store space to make everything run smoothly for an extended period of time---I.E. it'd have to be beneficial and cost effective. But it is something I hope to see in the future.


--Andy

Excellent post, Andy.
Along with failed assaults we would need to know things like how many armies advanced after successful attacks too.
One suggestion as a halfway-house would be to record the armies/territories array after each turn.
(Storing this after each individual move would be too much especially if someone does a lot of single attacks,
imagine the number of BOB snapshots required if you did a snapshot after every single attack)

This would allow construction of a snapshot after each turn.
I'm not sure if this would be good enough, but would save on data storage, failed attacks would obviously take more room as someone could switch territory being attacked at any time.

A copy of the armies array for each players turn would be cool - however would only work in Sequential games...

For Freestyle (always the annoying one) you would have to have it after each turn...

Then again - if we had a way of getting "just" the armies array for each turn/move - a replay feature would be childs play - and awesome...

Of course one of the hardest parts - is actually generating the number image - as this is done by the server - but for a replay script you could remove that and just overlay standard HTML numbers/letters - they just wouldn't look exactly the same as Lacks numbers...

And generating all those numbers on the server could cause serious overload...

C.

Freestyle.

Armies array every move for that and if we're doing that might as well do it for Sequential.
Unfortunately the amount of storage required for every move (bearing in mind single attack destinations can change)
isn't pretty.

Script replay better and not as slow, agreed.

Oh well.

chipv wrote:Freestyle.

Armies array every move for that and if we're doing that might as well do it for Sequential.
Unfortunately the amount of storage required for every move (bearing in mind single attack destinations can change)
isn't pretty.

Script replay better and not as slow, agreed.

Oh well.

I really think that every round is all you need for sequential.

For freestyle you'd have to do every time a drop down box is changed (not necessarily every roll of the die). And if one person is playing by themselves you could just record the end of the round, but that logic may be getting a bit too complicated.

I think in any case the full data should only be stored for a temporary time because there's really no reason to store data that people won't use for the replays.

We're in agreement on Sequential as well - but if we're recording every move (same as dropdown box changing not dice roll),
might as well do it for Sequential otherwise you will get a more accurate replay for Freestyle, most noticeable if people are taking turns as if it were a sequential game.

Temporary storage sounds good too.

Kotaro wrote:Failed assault in game log? Why in the world would that be a good thing?

If I am reviewing the game log as it stands now, I sometimes find that a player deployed a certain number of troops in a certain place, but some or all of those troops are now gone (and not through reinforcement to somewhere else). Clearly, they were lost in failed assaults, but which way was that player headed? I would like to be able to know the objective of the failed assaults, so as to try to understand that player's plan.

chipv wrote:Temporary storage sounds good too.

Agreed...

Don't forget that these numbers are generated for every time the page is loaded/changed/updated etc anyway - so there is no extra processing other than storing them somewhere...

Making them transient - i.e. lasting upto 2 weeks until the game has finished would be fine...

And if a player wanted to 'save' their replay then this would be fine.

I don't know how Lack stores the games with fog - whether it's 1 array that is processed depending on who is viewing - or Y arrays (X players +1 for global) that are updated simultatneously I don't know.

C.

yeti (or someone else who knows more than me about this), what about games that take over a year to play? It seems like that would chew through the memory in no time at all.

one weird thing about fog of war is the game log doesnt tell YOU which ones of YOUR territories has been defeated. It just show that the opponent has conquered ? from you, and ? from you, and ? from you........ and that sucks. Sure the other oppponents shouldnt know, but if we are trying to stay as realistic as possible, it should be information that we should have. Especially in a map like new world where opponents can come from many directions.

The log should show you which of your terts were defeated and in what order.

lancehoch wrote:yeti (or someone else who knows more than me about this), what about games that take over a year to play? It seems like that would chew through the memory in no time at all.

Probably not - but you could just have an imposed move limit once it breaks it - ditch that game... and return a suitable xml file that says so.

C.

yeti_c wrote:

lancehoch wrote:yeti (or someone else who knows more than me about this), what about games that take over a year to play? It seems like that would chew through the memory in no time at all.

Probably not - but you could just have an imposed move limit once it breaks it - ditch that game... and return a suitable xml file that says so.

C.

It would be a shame not to be able to examine the really long games. Those could be the most interesting to analyze (apart from the ones which are just deadlocked).

Thanks for contributing guys.

Its good to know that this feature might come into play in the future

Once a fog of war game is done, you can see everything, but it's a pain to really get follow the logs and such.

What would be great is if there was some sort of tool or plug-in which let you replay the game turn by turn that showed how the map looked (with troop levels and such) at the end of each turn. You could play each turn incrementing one turn at a time, or play one turn = 1 second and just watch what happens.

This would really be cool so you could understand what mistakes you made.

I would really like this... and not just for fog games... Like you said, it would be useful for finding your own mistakes... But I think the biggest thing I would use it for would be to determine the strategies of the people I am playing against. Because I could go watch their past games...