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Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no poi

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Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no poi

Postby Swimmerdude99 on Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:34 pm

Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no points are awarded.
I noticed this in game: Game 22029952. I was curious so I let the neutral player kill them off. I don't really care about the points much, but thought I'd bring it here.

Concise description:
  • When completing a terminator game and neutral player kills a player at the end of the game (last player killed is killed by neutral) no points are awarded to the winner.

Specifics:
  • I understand how this makes sense if the player is before the final player since the game couldn't really determine who got the kill in a terminator game... However that players' points could still always go to the winner of a terminator game when it completes
  • Example 1: 4-player terminator game. Player 1 kills all but 1 territ of player 2. Player 2 is eliminated by neutral player due to a resetting nuetral. No player is awarded points since the game cannot determine if Player 1, Player 3 or Player 4 killed them.
  • Example 2: 4-player terminator game. Player 1 kills Player 2 and Player 3. But Player 4 ends up killing all but one territory of Player 1. When Player 1 starts their turn on the resetting nuetral they die to neutral player and thus Player 4 wins the game. Player 4 does not get Player 1's points
  • Possible change: Whoever wins a terminator game gets points from all players eliminated by neutral player.

Or is this actually a bug and that is already handled?
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby TrafalgarLaw01 on Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:00 pm

I don't think it's a bug and it actually makes sense.
In terminator games points are awarder for kills, if a neutral gets the kill there should not be points awarded/taken.
Here is another example:
Game 21162289 I knew I had no chance on winning the game, but i had a set and my own tert so I zombyfied myself granting me not losing any point in that game. I don't see how a reseting neutral would really be a different case.
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:37 pm

I thought that players that were eliminated by a neutral player would have their points surrendered to the last player standing. I will have to do some game digging, but this may have been a previous rule and not the existing rule.
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:49 pm

It appears that not necessarily being eliminated by a "neutral player" will cause a player to lose points in a Terminator game.

  • Game 18996400 - the board (or map) eliminated the player due to the player's last territory being on a resetting neutral, so he lost no points from this "neutral player."
  • Game 18539534 - the player played a set of nuclear spoils, causing all of his territories to be nuked (essentially eliminating himself from the game), so he was eliminated by this "neutral player" and these points went to the last person standing. You don't need to have been the 2nd to last player standing to have your points go to the winner. See Game 13830932 as well.
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby Swimmerdude99 on Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:49 pm

Very interesting... your second point would make me think that this should also be the case for a player eliminated by the board, since a player eliminating themself isn't anymore done by an opponent player than the board killing them is.
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:48 pm

So far we have...

  • Resetting Neutral - loses no points
  • Playing Zombie Spoils - loses no points
  • Playing Nuclear Spoils - loses points to last player standing
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby iAmCaffeine on Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:21 pm

was gna make a thread but since this is slightly relevant:

Game 21908242

gains/losses are being calculated twice in the logs (but not points).
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby king achilles on Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:28 pm

To clarify, when it comes to a killer neutral eliminating someone in a Terminator game, just like when it comes to spoils, no points or spoils will be awarded.

When a killer neutral eliminates a player, the points from that player is not due to anyone. Swimmerdude99 didn't eliminate his last opponent so no point is awarded to him.
This is the risk when playing Terminator on a map with a killer neutral.

As for Nuclear setting, this is different because it involves cashing in your spoils. The same applies with Zombie setting.
These settings are not like a killer neutral which will automatically turn whatever troops in that region/territory into a neutral troop after every round. A killer neutral is out of your hands.

Going back to Nuclear, when you have a set that eliminates all players in a game, then the most left card gets played first, the person last standing (read hit by nuke) then wins.

https://www.conquerclub.com/public.php? ... tructions3
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby Swimmerdude99 on Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 pm

king achilles wrote:To clarify, when it comes to a killer neutral eliminating someone in a Terminator game, just like when it comes to spoils, no points or spoils will be awarded.

When a killer neutral eliminates a player, the points from that player is not due to anyone. Swimmerdude99 didn't eliminate his last opponent so no point is awarded to him.
This is the risk when playing Terminator on a map with a killer neutral.

As for Nuclear setting, this is different because it involves cashing in your spoils. The same applies with Zombie setting.
These settings are not like a killer neutral which will automatically turn whatever troops in that region/territory into a neutral troop after every round. A killer neutral is out of your hands.

Going back to Nuclear, when you have a set that eliminates all players in a game, then the most left card gets played first, the person last standing (read hit by nuke) then wins.

https://www.conquerclub.com/public.php? ... tructions3

So are you sure the same occurs with zombies? Sounds like zombies might be coded the same way as neutral player elim (aka no points awarded at end of game?)
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Re: Terminator - Last player eliminated by neutral player no

Postby king achilles on Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:53 pm

Based from the example given by TrafalgarLaw01, it would look that way but still, he 'zombified' himself mid-game. What he did was not at the End of the game.
At any rate, these kind of end game situations (very) rarely happens anyway.

https://www.conquerclub.com/public.php? ... tructions3
Spoils

Escalating sets are worth 4,6,8,10,12,15,20... (i.e. the first set of spoils turned in by any player is worth 4 troops, the second set is worth 6, etc.) When the value reaches 100, it begins to escalate even more rapidly via the sequence 100,110,125,145,170...

Flat Rate sets are worth 4 for red, 6 for green, 8 for blue and 10 for mixed.

Nuclear sets are not worth any troops. Instead, each region in the set is nuked to a single neutral troop (even if you own it!). Note that it is possible to eliminate players, including yourself, by cashing nuclear sets! Regions are nuked in the order of the spoils cashed, and any players eliminated accordingly.

Zombie sets work in a similar way to Nuclear, with each region in the set being zombified to being neutral (but not changed in size).
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