Fog of war courtesy

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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby darth emperor on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:59 am

Viceroy63 wrote:OK; So then that is only possible on some larger maps and with the right settings. Gotcha! ;)

How's about World 2.0? I don't know the Forbidden City Map.

Not necessarily, on the larger maps, is more a question about bonuses . If the first players takes you out of an area, you can't be sure if he has the bonus, or there are few neutrals (considering that you cannot see enough .

Granted, you can go there and see, but maybe if you know already that there are few neutrals, you can spend your efforts on getting some other areas of the game more interesting for you. In others words, it can change your full strategy.
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby Viceroy63 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:37 pm

darth emperor wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:OK; So then that is only possible on some larger maps and with the right settings. Gotcha! ;)

How's about World 2.0? I don't know the Forbidden City Map.

Not necessarily, on the larger maps, is more a question about bonuses . If the first players takes you out of an area, you can't be sure if he has the bonus, or there are few neutrals (considering that you cannot see enough .

Granted, you can go there and see, but maybe if you know already that there are few neutrals, you can spend your efforts on getting some other areas of the game more interesting for you. In others words, it can change your full strategy.


OK; I'll concede. =) You guys may have a point. I would guess then that the strategy of Fog games would have to include being the first to play and blind your opponent before he sees you coming. :lol:

No seriously; When you put it like that where if you are blinded in a certain area and in that area there are several angles or directions from which to amass an assault, then you would be at a disadvantage not knowing from where the attack would be coming from. I take it that is something of what you are trying to convey to me.

OK; But doesn't BOB tell you if your opponent has a bonus or not? Maybe not? Right. I thought it would.
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby darth emperor on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:59 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
darth emperor wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:OK; So then that is only possible on some larger maps and with the right settings. Gotcha! ;)

How's about World 2.0? I don't know the Forbidden City Map.

Not necessarily, on the larger maps, is more a question about bonuses . If the first players takes you out of an area, you can't be sure if he has the bonus, or there are few neutrals (considering that you cannot see enough .

Granted, you can go there and see, but maybe if you know already that there are few neutrals, you can spend your efforts on getting some other areas of the game more interesting for you. In others words, it can change your full strategy.


OK; I'll concede. =) You guys may have a point. I would guess then that the strategy of Fog games would have to include being the first to play and blind your opponent before he sees you coming. :lol:

No seriously; When you put it like that where if you are blinded in a certain area and in that area there are several angles or directions from which to amass an assault, then you would be at a disadvantage not knowing from where the attack would be coming from. I take it that is something of what you are trying to convey to me.

OK; But doesn't BOB tell you if your opponent has a bonus or not? Maybe not? Right. I thought it would.

Of course, BOB tells you, but after he got the bonus, the same as you see in the log. BOB doesn't give you info that you can't see in the logs.
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby nicestash on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:36 pm

I always give my opponents in all games at least 12 hours to grab a snap, but it can be a big disadvantage for me because if my opponent doesn't follow the same protocol, I end up at an advantage. That said, most players I've gone up against have shown my their log after I complain about not getting a snap. In my experience, the fog rule does not generally apply to 1v1 games; most people are surprised when I mention it.
If you care very deeply about the fog rule in 1v1 games, simply don't start your own games and join someone else's.
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby Fewnix on Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:06 pm

A Fog of War game involves strategy. In RL there are rules for real wars, Geneva Convention anyone? Perhaps the 12 hour rule can be made a Rule like the Clan Sitting Rule in clan war games or League games, but remain a question of "courtesy" and strategy in "friendly" games?

p.s. Good discussion on Fof of War in wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_of_war ... _and_games
The fog of war is the uncertainty in situational awareness experienced by participants in military operations.[1] The term seeks to capture the uncertainty regarding one's own capability, adversary capability, and adversary intent during an engagement, operation, or campaign.

...
The concept was introduced by the Prussian military analyst Carl von Clausewitz in his posthumously published book, Vom Kriege (1837), which appeared in English translation in 1873 under the title On War:

Der Krieg ist das Gebiet der Ungewißheit; drei Vierteile derjenigen Dinge, worauf das Handeln im Kriege gebaut wird, liegen im Nebel einer mehr oder weniger großen Ungewißheit. Hier ist es also zuerst, wo ein feiner, durchdringender Verstand in Anspruch genommen wird, um mit dem Takte seines Urteils die Wahrheit herauszufühlen.[2]

(War is an area of uncertainty; three quarters of the things on which all action in War is based are lying in a fog of uncertainty to a greater or lesser extent. The first thing (needed) here is a fine, piercing mind, to feel out the truth with the measure of its judgment).
Carl von Clausewitz

The term "fog of war" has become jargon in military and adventure video and computer games, in the more limited sense of enemy units or characters being hidden from the player.

One early use of fog of war was the 1978 game Tanktics designed by Chris Crawford, which was criticized for its fog of war system detracting from the fun of the game. Crawford later noted that "...when the games get too realistic, they lose their appeal."[4
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:58 pm

nicestash wrote:I always give my opponents in all games at least 12 hours to grab a snap, but it can be a big disadvantage for me because if my opponent doesn't follow the same protocol, I end up at an advantage. That said, most players I've gone up against have shown my their log after I complain about not getting a snap. In my experience, the fog rule does not generally apply to 1v1 games; most people are surprised when I mention it.
If you care very deeply about the fog rule in 1v1 games, simply don't start your own games and join someone else's.


I have started games where being the Red player I went first. But most of the times it is some one else that goes first. So maybe you have a point there.
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby Armandolas on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:00 pm

its only about fair play, some people have it , some people dont.

If u ask and they dont care to tell you, then its just ugly. Apart for the advantage of going 1st they take that advantage. Seems to me that what only matters is win, and respect is putten aside.
Well thats life and this is just a game, let them have their cookies and be happy with that.
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby MoB Deadly on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:25 pm

By default I do not follow this rule, I have a difficult enough time remembering to take all my turns occasionally.

If I make a turn too fast and someone asks what I conquered, I would be happy to tell them.

Honestly I dont remember about 12 hour fog, unless it is stated in the Game Label.
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby Vid_FISO on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:29 pm

Isn't there a suggestions in suggestions regarding some sort of "auto-snap"?

I guess another idea would be to have a FoW setting that can be checked or not and if checked then rather than have the first to move face the possible inconvenience of wasting 12 hours of their 24 for snaps not to be taken that there is a 12 hour clock for the 2nd to play to view the board/ take a snap.
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby Viceroy63 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:46 pm

I guess that a fair thing to do would be to take a snap using BOB and that way everyone with BOB can see the original position. I think?

As to that Auto-snapshot suggestion, I believe it was rejected. I am not sure though. Maybe some one else does?

Otherwise, I just love cookies and if you let me have them, I'll just eat em all up. LOL.

"Who stole the cookies from the Cookie Jar? > Number 3 stole the cookies from the Cookie Jar. - Who Me, Couldn't be..." :lol:
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby Jippd on Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:57 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:I guess that a fair thing to do would be to take a snap using BOB and that way everyone with BOB can see the original position. I think?

As to that Auto-snapshot suggestion, I believe it was rejected. I am not sure though. Maybe some one else does?

Otherwise, I just love cookies and if you let me have them, I'll just eat em all up. LOL.

"Who stole the cookies from the Cookie Jar? > Number 3 stole the cookies from the Cookie Jar. - Who Me, Couldn't be..." :lol:


You can't take a snap with BOB. The image that team 2 took would not be the same image team 1 would see. It would in fact give away all of their positions.

I remember the suggestion chat. Another possible idea was to allow a round of wait time. IE you can start a game with the delay play option. If you pick this for your game then the first round is a "Snap" round, much like the first round of manual deployment. No attacks/drops/forts will be made in this first round. Instead each team would just take a snap and push a "team ready" or "end turn" button to signify to the computer that the team was ready and regular play could resume. This allows people to get a snap but doesn't increase delay for play as once both teams click the "ready" button it will go to round 2 (which was previously round 1)
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Re: Fog of war courtesy

Postby Viceroy63 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:00 am

That is exactly correct. A snapshot with BOB would not work. I wrote too quickly there before thinking it through all the way. Stupid me. LOL.

But what about the cookies idea? Any milk comes with that? :lol:
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