Conquer Club it really a good final move?

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Re: it really a good final move?

Postby macbone on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:29 am

Talk about necromancy!

Basically, a kamikaze move as it's described here generally results in a third player winning the game. I guess that's okay if you want the higher ranked player winning so you don't lose as many points (not a fan of this, by the way), but if the situation's truly hopeless and you attack one player like crazy anyway, it doesn't do you any good.

Now, there's a difference between a kamikaze attack and making a last-ditch shot at winning/ running the table. With the former, the chance of success is effectively zero. With the latter, usually the player's estimated their chances and have at least a believable shot at winning the game (though what is considered believable varies from player to player).

I don't know where you'd draw the line - trying anything at 0% chance of success (for example, you have 8 troops left, and you have to conquer 10 terts to win) is just poor form. Personally, I wouldn't attempt something like this with less than a 20% chance of success, but if it it's reasonable, I'd take the shot.

Say it's an Escalating game, and if I can kill an opponent I either get points (Terminator) or enough cards to cash again and replace the troops I lost, I might go for it. Say I had a stack of 10, and I had to kill 20 troops on one tert - unlikely, but it's still possible. It depends on the situation in the game, whether it's make the kill or be eliminated. If I don't try, I lose, and if I try and fail, I still lose, but if by some stretch of great luck, I make the kill and either stay alive, get some points, or eventually win, I'd pull the trigger there.

Now, if you're attacking every turn just to attack, and in doing so giving the game away to a third player, I don't see the benefit for you personally (unless, again, you'd rather lose less points to a colonel than to a private first class).
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Re: it really a good final move?

Postby Ultimatelatios54 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:23 pm

Kamikaze is good and bad at the same time. I know I'm a newbie. But everyone has a point sometimes. Anyway, it is good if you are risking luck. If you are on the corner of a "out of a game" knockout and you KNOW you are going to lose, kamikaze can help inflict a good amount of damage before death. It's bad to do early and mid game because you don't know if you'll lose. I even done some personal kamikazes myself, but it didn't really help and it net me the loss. So it balances in 50 / 50 on the scale currently. Unless the owner of this site implants a new kamikaze setting.
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Re: it really a good final move?

Postby ZeekLTK on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:19 am

Like I said in the "fighting cook" thread - if you are strong enough to seriously damage another player's chance of winning, then you are strong enough to win the game yourself.

I mean, what are we talking about here? You have a stack of 10 and are getting 3 armies per turn while your opponent has half the map and is getting like +15 a turn? You're right - you are screwed. But also your "stack" is barely going to dent them. So it doesn't really matter what you do.

On the other hand, if you have like 20 some armies with +3 a turn while both of your opponents are"only" getting +9 or so, then you're misjudging your place in the game. You could definitely use those to try to swing the game back in your favor, especially if they are trying to fight each other (or someone else) as well, because they are not going to want to weaken themselves taking you out if it's going to allow someone else to take them out.

If you really are strong enough to seriously hurt your opponent, then he most likely knows that and does NOT want it to happen. That's where the text box comes in (hint: under the map) - talk to him. Tell him that is likely going to be your course of action unless a truce can be agreed on. It puts the ball in his court - if he declines, then he has no reason to get upset if you do hurt him enough to cause him to eventually lose... and if he agrees, then you get a "second chance" so to speak, to build up and get even stronger so that you can get back into the game.

Like, for example, let's say it's a 3-player game with the above scenario: you are down to a few territories left and are only getting +3. The other two players both have bonuses and are getting +9.

Both of them need to use all 9 of their troops against EACH OTHER. They don't have enough to split between you and the other guy. If he uses 4/5 against your 3, then that means he's only able to use 4/5 against the other guy's 9. He doesn't want to do that, because while he'll likely eventually beat you, he's going to lose a lot of ground to the other guy in return. Instead, ask for a truce. Tell him to go ahead and use his 9 against the other guy's 9, then you keep stacking up and can eventually fight him yourself.

Or, let's say you are at +3, someone else is +9, another is +15. You can try to ally against the guy who is +15. That guy doesn't have quite enough troops to fight you both at the same time. It's essentially 15 vs 12, which is fairly even. You guys work together until you can knock him down to around the same strength as the second place player and you will find that you've moved up quite a bit. So now it's maybe +5 vs +9 vs +10... you're back in the game. Etc.
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