Battle for the Spice Islands

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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands

Postby vaughn03 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:21 pm

Sure - I'm pretty sure all that copy will change a lot of it is greek. I sort of like the stuff about the Dutch East Indy company but it's superficial to gameplay. It's never really been in my purview to pick fonts so I'll do the best I can. Suggestions would be welcome. I'm thinking that I'd like fonts that reflect the period - 1602-1798. Of course I can do things to improve legibility of the fonts as they are - size, color, color of background, but many of those adjustments are subject to where and how much copy we end up with.

I've checked out thehippo8 article and agree that some of my ideas do exist just in a different form than I envisioned. I want the little boat to move... Oh well, I can deal with it... I need to talk to him or someone about some of those maps. Have not played Das Schloss - looks interesting but scares me some, I'm going to lose points figuring it out... Played Trench Warfare once but couldn't dig out so didn't really figure out all that gameplay either. Will ask for more explanations/examples - maybe you can help...? I guess I can look at games or the rules somewhere as well...

Thanks for input.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands

Postby vaughn03 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:19 pm

Battle for the Spice Islands:
vaughn03:
Number of Territories - Uncertain:
Special Features - Inset Maps, Navies, Supply Lines, Commodities, Ports:
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made? - Historical significance based on Wallace Map of the Malay Archipelago 1869 and the Dutch East India Company, Special Game Play, Lack of Maps of this region of the world:

Battle for the Spice Islands:

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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands

Postby vaughn03 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:45 pm

I've posted a revision to the map in order to keep things moving - it's still not all thought out but I would like input.

Due to not being able to randomize volcanos and/or typhoons I've decided to drop them from this map and hence I am also dropping the 'Ring of Fire' from the title. Perhaps a future version.

Also since no pop-up maps I have made a single inset - The Spice Islands - this is also based on a historic map, near as my limited knowledge can surmise, there seemed to be a lot of spices and hence fighting around these small islands.

Here I'm thinking somewhere along the lines that perhaps each island in the Spice Islands can be one-way attacked from different ports and/or fleets. Spice Islands could attack internally. Same with fleets and ports, perhaps one attacks the other and vise versa but land in the archepagos has to be attacked via the ports and other land..?

Ports could get bonus's compounded by number of ports, but I sort of like the idea that ships perhaps cost something because they are, after all, expensive to maintain. Maybe like 'Russian Winter' in NAPOLEONIC EUROPE -1 troop per turn?

I also like the idea of incorporating commodities as part of a bonus - historically it was what everyone was killing each other for. Maybe they could have some heirachy for a bonus and/or role in a victory condition.

I think the nature of the geography with the island chains makes for nice one way attacks which a enjoy ala FRACTURED CHINA map. Also here - if possible - still like the idea of receiving bonus for supply lines - not clear to me if that is allowed and if so how much control/latitude I have.

I have Ships or Fleets but not sure how I want to play them - I like the idea of them having some movement, perhaps as thehippo8 suggested ala 1982 and TRENCH WARFARE. I agree that that does essentially the same thing as what I wanted, if not giving me the pleasure of my little ships moving across the map. Also not sure how to illustrate there range/territory - I prefer the lines to be natural perhaps incorporating the Longitude and Latitude lines that are on the map..?

Lastly - I realize my type/fonts need to be improved. I've been building this in Photoshop much bigger than the meager 840 x 800 pixels that CC allows. Unfortunately when I bring it done the fonts suffer and I will need to deal with that.

Thanks - looking forward to input.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands

Postby thehippo8 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:51 pm

Yes, you can do supply lines ala Northwest Passage and commodity bonuses ala Age of Merchants or Tribal War ... there are other examples but those will do for now!

Otherwise, I am enjoying your thought processes and would be good to see some input from others on your gameplay suggestions.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:46 am

[Moved]

Into the drafting room you go. You should get a few more to look over there.

vaughn, territ names are to bloody small. I find it very hard to read them and when you make the small, it will be even harder. When you shrink you map, you need to do the names on the shrunken map. Text does not scale nicely.
Ships need to have a name put on them. Will think about connections but lines are the norm. different ways can be found and will think on it. Theme, why spice islands? What made these islands so special people fought over them? And how can you bring them into the gameplay. Think about maybe holding port(s), a ship and a spice. Make these bonuses progressive so holding the same spice will increase with the amount of ships and ports you hold. More ships allow you to transport more, and ports allow you to sell more. You only have 5 spices so there is plenty of expansion for small games and plenty to fight over in large games. Spice islands inset. You can remove the pretty graphics (compass and ships), move the islands down and bung a port on each island. This makes sense as all are islands. You can then use the spices at the top as the spice territs needed to hold for a bonus. Link each one to specific island(s).

Will have a longer/better look later for you and try to come up with some ideas.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:46 am

vaughn, now that you are in the foundry proper, their are some little things you need to do to make things simple for everyone.

Title of thread needs to be changed and kept up to date.
Maps name - date of last update - page of latest version.

I have done this for you this time around, but please keep it up to date.

Secondly, keep the latest version of the map in post one. Drafts can go into spoilers.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1/10] Pg2

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:07 am

I am liking the development of this map. In terms of the small version, have you played around with how big you'll want that to be?


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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:04 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Title of thread needs to be changed and kept up to date.
Maps name - date of last update - page of latest version.

Basically like this: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1 Nov 2012] v1, pg 2
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1/10] Pg2

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:21 pm

First of all let me say that I'm very impressed for a such nice draft.
In past I tried to develop a map about this zone and I'm well aware about how much is hard to find a good layout staying within the size limits, but I'm with cairnswk on this one.
Actually your map is really challenging: text is hard to read, there're important information that are not exaplined, it's not easy to understand how it will work...actually it would be an hell to play without the bob.

So, my very first suggestion is to make it more friendly. All the information you need to play the map should be clear on the map and you should be able to gather them just looking at it. Here we have a thread and we can discuss, but when the map will be played players should be able to play it without having to come here and ask for a clarification.
If you want to develop something that isn't exactly classic, if you want to go into something more complex....then it's fine, but please keep in mind that there's a big difference in having a complex map and a confusing one. A clear and complex map can be fun to play, a confusing and complex one will be just frustrating and players won't play it. That's simple.

I would like to comment a bit more the gameplay but actually it's not totally clear to me how you want to it plays...:?
For example ships, they connect together? Can attack ports? It's a two way thing or just a one way attack? Also ports connects each other?
Some land connections are also not so clear, for example how do you reach Tanimbar? Bali connects with?
Also ships have names? How people will distinguish them when playing the map? (I know we have clicky maps but we can't assume everyone uses them)

A final note, the minimap on the left...there's a reason for a such big space? Symbols can be visible even if you make the land smaller, moreover I think that they can pop out more if you reduce the size of the land but leave the symbols as they are now, or maybe just a bit smaller. reducing the space required for the minimap you can expand the bonus legend a bit more, actually i need a telescope to read names. Vertical text is in general ahrder to read when it is typed on 2+ lines (our brain tend to read horizzontally in any case, well not if you're japanese, but this is not the case I think ;)), so you have to use or a very clear font (basically CAPITAL letters) or write it horizontally.
Also the other inset on the right, you have a lot of "wasted" space in the lower part. If it was my map I would try to increase a bit the playable area, even if it means have a few pixels more than the limits of width. In the same time you should try to organize the other parts of the map in a better way, if possible try to keep the height within the limits.

I will leave more thoughts soon, keep it up...it's a good map and I like the spice theme.
Looking forward your next update.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1/10] Pg2

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:38 pm

I have very little input outside of that I love it, but the text seems very small to me.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1/10] Pg2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:46 pm

vaughn03, I have been waiting like a lot of other to see what your next draft is going to be like. Like a lot of posts in your thread, I love this map. Please please post something soon and put me out of my misery.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1/10] Pg2

Postby vaughn03 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:53 am

Sorry was off diving. Will work on this over Thanksgiving - should have a post. Thanks.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1/10] Pg2

Postby vaughn03 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:57 am

Regarding size - When I helped on the Mississippi map size became a big issue and the project was abandoned because creator could not get Super Size approval.

So... I made my map 840 x 800 to conform. Now I am being told I should 'play with the size'... I prefer bigger maps - what size can I use..? Now you have me all confused. (Not hard)
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1/10] Pg2

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:59 am

vaughn, regarding the size, use this as a rule of thumb. If you can justify every single pixel over the 840/800, then it can be done. What I mean is, pretty graphics will not be allowed (like the border around the map, you might be asked to reduce the thickness of it) but something that allows the gameplay and players experience to be clearer will be. Right now, the spice islands are very large so you might be asked to shrink them. The mini map is also large, so that could be made smaller. But the text needs to go bigger so it can be read. This all gives you wiggle room to play with.

Mississippi could not justify this. That was the reason behind that.
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Re: Ring of Fire - Battle for the Spice Islands [1/10] Pg2

Postby vaughn03 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:12 pm

OK - Thanks - will follow those suggestions. Think I will push it out to 880-900 make the large map bigger - make the smaller maps smaller and better proportioned. Will fix text - I'll set it at size and change fonts.
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