Conquer Club

I just got done with a round and I got hammered by the dice. At one point I lost 9 rolls in a row 3 dive vs 1 single dice! Then the next territory which was a 3 by the way won 3 double rolls and a single or two. So basically my 23 armies got leveled down to 6 by attacking two territories that were 3 and 5. I am just wondering what the machine is trying to tell you when it litterally makes you loose 9 in a row especially on a single dice. Is the game saying no you cant do this and getting more mad at you as you try or what? What kind of randomizer is used to roll the dice and how do you people deal with it. I was so mad I self destructed used all my other armies to attack out after that and guess what they all got destroyed I am talking 13 armies vs two 3's and I couldnt advance. So i just wanted to see how many I could loose in one turn and I figure as attacker I lost 85 to 93% of all dice rolls. I just want to know how it can be possible to have a true random dice throw and loose 27 of 32 attacks in a row. Is there something I am missing other than what the instructions are saying? I just cant see playing this much anymore as I spent so much time planning and watching in the last few days just to have the Dice roll 1 2 1, 2 3 1, 3 3 2. etc that is what I was rolling against a single dice over and over and over and over.

Guess it just wasn't your day. Keep playing and one day you'll win 20 vs 9 with no loss, then 19 vs 5 with no loss and so on, and your opponent will post a thread like this.

ghost2501 wrote:How Dice Work Exactly

You let go of them with your hand and the gravitaional pull of the earth accelerates them toward the ground/table at 9.8mps^2 They bump into one another and the ground and friction causes them to come to a rest. They hold kinetic energy, but more importantly, they hold a number of spots (1-6) on their top. The number facing up is the number you have "rolled".

I hope this answers your question.

Beckytheblondie wrote:

ghost2501 wrote:How Dice Work Exactly

You let go of them with your hand and the gravitaional pull of the earth accelerates them toward the ground/table at 9.8mps^2 They bump into one another and the ground and friction causes them to come to a rest. They hold kinetic energy, but more importantly, they hold a number of spots (1-6) on their top. The number facing up is the number you have "rolled".

I hope this answers your question.

I loled

I am sorry I just had a bad day, and I am still new. I Uusally have a pretty conservative formula, 5 troops to kill 3 and then to leave 3 and move 3 you need 11 troops to invade one 3 army territory. I just didnt expect almost tripple that and half of it against a single army. I wont post any more dice complaints etc. I am sorry.

The numbers for the dice are taken from random.org. They have passed every randomness, and "streakiness" test anyone has thrown at them.

It is only perception that makes people think the dice are faulty.

Beckytheblondie wrote:friction causes them to come to a rest.

Gravity plays a large part in that, too.

the.killing.44 wrote:

Beckytheblondie wrote:friction causes them to come to a rest.

Gravity plays a large part in that, too.

Friction only really plays a part in this because of gravity.

Timminz wrote:The numbers for the dice are taken from random.org. They have passed every randomness, and "streakiness" test anyone has thrown at them.

It is only perception that makes people think the dice are faulty.

BTW, has anyone ever run an analysis on autoattack vs single attack? I believe that random.org is random, but the timing issue between these two actions might bias a sample that streams from Random.org.

Snowgun wrote:

Timminz wrote:The numbers for the dice are taken from random.org. They have passed every randomness, and "streakiness" test anyone has thrown at them.

It is only perception that makes people think the dice are faulty.

BTW, has anyone ever run an analysis on autoattack vs single attack?

yes

Timminz wrote:

Snowgun wrote:

Timminz wrote:The numbers for the dice are taken from random.org. They have passed every randomness, and "streakiness" test anyone has thrown at them.

It is only perception that makes people think the dice are faulty.

BTW, has anyone ever run an analysis on autoattack vs single attack?

yes

No they havent.

See how easy that was to rebuttle without a link to the actual study?

(so Timmah, do you happen to have a link? i'd be interested. thx )

Timminz wrote:

the.killing.44 wrote:

Beckytheblondie wrote:friction causes them to come to a rest.

Gravity plays a large part in that, too.

Friction only really plays a part in this because of gravity.

True, but don't forget about the gravitational pull of the dice on the table/box/earth... I will almost guarentee that has changed a few 6s into 1s...

Snowgun wrote:

Timminz wrote:

Snowgun wrote:

Timminz wrote:The numbers for the dice are taken from random.org. They have passed every randomness, and "streakiness" test anyone has thrown at them.

It is only perception that makes people think the dice are faulty.

BTW, has anyone ever run an analysis on autoattack vs single attack?

yes

No they havent.

See how easy that was to rebuttle without a link to the actual study?

(so Timmah, do you happen to have a link? i'd be interested. thx )

I might be able to point you in the right direction, but I think I'd prefer you to not believe me.

Cheers Snooguns

wahoo I got some bad dice again today ~! 4 double losses in a row~! along with not a single double win for me in over 16 straight attacks. I love those statistics... I should write down all the dice throws in a game and see how supposedly random it is, I belive the defense will have 80% wins and attack has 20% loss as this is how my last 5 attacks went, yet someone takes one territorry with a bunch and rolls on through me with no resistance hardly loosing a thing. You guys havent noticed any territories having strong defense? 4 different times I had iceland go insane on me beatingme with double defense rolls time and time again and I have only been playing a week or two. Its just getting me too mad and its not worth it when turn after turn I am burning up 15 troops to kill 3, yes that is right I am attacking with 13 to 17 stong armies and guess what... I bareley get through the first territoriy of 3 armies and I am already down to 3 or 4 armies what a drive!...

It happens, my worst dice were the games where I started with losing the first 7 3dice v2 dice-attacks, so be prepared for those (only had that 3 or 4 times yet though).

ghost2501 wrote:What kind of randomizer is used to roll the dice and how do you people deal with it.

random.org generates a large file of numbers (arranged in rows with 5 numbers between 1 and 6) also known as the mythical beast "the dice file". The server then picks a line and uses the first three numbers as the attackers dice (if less than 3 dice is rolled then the extra numbers are just discarded) and the last two as the defenders dice (again, the second number is discarded if only one dice is rolled) and then compares the generated rolls as per the standard RISK rules of highest wins with defender winning draws. Simple as.

Said dice file has had loads and loads of statistical test made on it (just as random.org also has) and from what I know all tests have been passed. Of course there is still the age old debates about "does random really exists" and "can a man made algorithm really produce a random number" but they can easily be discarded for our discussions about if there is a problem with the CC dice. Links to the tests and statements from the ones making them can be found in the dice thread in S&B and most likely in the threads in GD too.

Snowgun wrote:BTW, has anyone ever run an analysis on autoattack vs single attack? I believe that random.org is random, but the timing issue between these two actions might bias a sample that streams from Random.org.

There was some small work done on the "auto v single" issue. IIRC they could not observe anything unexpected (should be a link to it in one of the big dice threads in GD or possibly in the one in S&B).

However it is, IMO, a moot point as there is nothing procedural that really differs between auto and single attacking. "Auto" is simply the server hitting the "single" button several times (but really, really fast ) and displaying the result in one go and as the dice numbers are generated they way they are that shouldn't make for any issues tbh.

ghost2501 wrote:I just want to know how it can be possible to have a true random dice throw and loose 27 of 32 attacks in a row.

ghost2501 wrote:wahoo I got some bad dice again today

If you are actively looking for short term anomalies then you will be a very unhappy camper tbh as that is only to be expected of any random sequence. You need upwards of 10k dices thrown before you can safely expect it to close in on the statistical mean.

ghost2501 wrote:I should write down all the dice throws in a game and see how supposedly random it is

Please do. Or you could just use this little plug-in to do it for you. The Dice Analyzer will record all the throws made during your turns and displays them in some easy to watch tables while also comparing it to the expected outcomes.. HtH

Thezzaruz wrote:random.org generates a large file of numbers (arranged in rows with 5 numbers between 1 and 6) also known as the mythical beast "the dice file". The server then picks a line and uses the first three numbers as the attackers dice (if less than 3 dice is rolled then the extra numbers are just discarded) and the last two as the defenders dice (again, the second number is discarded if only one dice is rolled) and then compares the generated rolls as per the standard RISK rules of highest wins with defender winning draws. Simple as.

So, does random's list have every combination of 5 dice (7776 different combinations) and it's CC's server that picks them at random?

Thezzaruz wrote:

Snowgun wrote:BTW, has anyone ever run an analysis on autoattack vs single attack? I believe that random.org is random, but the timing issue between these two actions might bias a sample that streams from Random.org.

There was some small work done on the "auto v single" issue. IIRC they could not observe anything unexpected (should be a link to it in one of the big dice threads in GD or possibly in the one in S&B).

However it is, IMO, a moot point as there is nothing procedural that really differs between auto and single attacking. "Auto" is simply the server hitting the "single" button several times (but really, really fast ) and displaying the result in one go and as the dice numbers are generated they way they are that shouldn't make for any issues tbh.

Well, since it is "small" work, I wonder if it was adequate? and as far as nothing that procedurally differs, that is not true. if the server picks the dice lines, sampling them when called, there could be a aliasing effect of the picking algorithm, expecially for smaller stack numbers which seem to be the most suseptable to crazy auto results. add on ping time, the fact that the auto does it with a constant delta t vs human button hitting, ect.

However, in all probability it is most likely the same. But dismissing the chance that something COULD be wrong is also the wrong approach. I"ll have to try and dig out the work you guys have aluded to. They should have a sticky with all the dice randomness study data, then maybe there would be fewer "the dice suck" threads.

the dice are simple in order to get good dice you must pray to the "6" the God of the DICE yes if you do not believe in it you will not get good dice


so GO SACRIFICE A COW IN THE NAME OF THE DICE!!!!!

targetman377 wrote:the dice are simple in order to get good dice you must pray to the "6" the God of the DICE yes if you do not believe in it you will not get good dice


so GO SACRIFICE A COW IN THE NAME OF THE DICE!!!!!

What kinda dice do I get if I just eat a steak?

Snowgun wrote:

targetman377 wrote:the dice are simple in order to get good dice you must pray to the "6" the God of the DICE yes if you do not believe in it you will not get good dice


so GO SACRIFICE A COW IN THE NAME OF THE DICE!!!!!

What kinda dice do I get if I just eat a steak?

its ok i as long as they are not black and white cows (the color of the dice!!!!) if you are eating milk cows and NOT SACRIFICING THEM then i pray to the dice god for he may forgive you!

Snowgun wrote:So, does random's list have every combination of 5 dice (7776 different combinations) and it's CC's server that picks them at random?

No. The numbers are random and the server just picks the next line in order. (IIRC the dice file has 10 or 20k of lines in it)

Snowgun wrote:and as far as nothing that procedurally differs, that is not true. if the server picks the dice lines, sampling them when called, there could be a aliasing effect of the picking algorithm, expecially for smaller stack numbers which seem to be the most suseptable to crazy auto results. add on ping time, the fact that the auto does it with a constant delta t vs human button hitting, ect.

No. There is no picking algorithm and hence none of the issues you suggest either.

Snowgun wrote:However, in all probability it is most likely the same. But dismissing the chance that something COULD be wrong is also the wrong approach.

No I'm not saying that things can't be wrong, just that I so far haven't seen anything procedural that would produce a flawed result (as long as you accept the basic premise that random numbers can come from a man made algorithm of course ).

Snowgun wrote:They should have a sticky with all the dice randomness study data, then maybe there would be fewer "the dice suck" threads.

No. Being disproved rarely stops people whining about how they've been wronged. Sadly enough...