Conquer Club

At the moment, the games that have been awaiting players the longest are the ones that pop up first when a player clicks 'Join A Game'. This is obviously a problem. All a player willing to farm has to do is set up some games that are visible to New Recruits and make sure no one joins them (either by asking people who join the games to drop, making horrible settings so that no one will want to join or foe everyone) untill they are at the top of the list and they will fill up with new players. Because New Recruits can't see all games, the games will only be at the top of the New Recruit's 'Join Game' list and not at the top of everyone's which is convenient for the Newb-Farmer.

My solution would be to randomise the order of games that come up when one clicks 'Join A Game'. In my opinion, this is the perfect solution, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say on the matter. If no one spots a problem then I'll post this in the suggestions forum.

StephenB wrote:My solution would be to randomise the order of games that come up when one clicks 'Join A Game'. In my opinion, this is the perfect solution, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say on the matter. If no one spots a problem then I'll post this in the suggestions forum.

Oh yeah... real perfect. A ton of games only fill because they make the first or second page of the join a game page. I've started my share of games and looked at where they will be, even without repeating the same map, many of the games will get to the 3rd page before even the second person joins. After that, they fill with non-new recruits.

The problem with all the updates we've had in the past while is that often people are asking for one thing to change: have the stats to be optional to be placed at the bottom of the map rather than at the side. Lack changes it plus something else = people aren't happy. Same with this. You are taking solving farming a step further, but you're changing something for the rest of us that some don't want to happen.

If you want another problem, people can always reserve all the slots, wait 24 hours, then it will fill with only new recruits.

Here's a suggestion that changes nothing else but farming, and prevents it from happening even if people use the reserving games method to farm, foeing every non-new recruit, or inviting 7 new recruits into a gae: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104879

The Neon Peon wrote:Oh yeah... real perfect. A ton of games only fill because they make the first or second page of the join a game page. I've started my share of games and looked at where they will be, even without repeating the same map, many of the games will get to the 3rd page before even the second person joins. After that, they fill with non-new recruits.

The problem with all the updates we've had in the past while is that often people are asking for one thing to change: have the stats to be optional to be placed at the bottom of the map rather than at the side. Lack changes it plus something else = people aren't happy. Same with this. You are taking solving farming a step further, but you're changing something for the rest of us that some don't want to happen.

If they aren't starting then that's because people don't want to play the games you've set up. Having new players (not only New Recruits) join a game with unpopular settings which they will probably not like is not the answer to the 'game not filling' problem. Creating different games is.

What Lack always has to think about is does the good cancel out the bad. A lot of the time it doesn't. I wasn't around at the time, but in my opinion, deleting the flame forum was a stupid mistake that was not thought through. I can also tell that the admins aren't fans of putting their hands up and admitting they've cocked up, which is why it has not been reversed. By the sounds of it, there's been a lot of bans that shouldn't have taken place too, though I can't really judge on this. In my opinion, there are no bad side-effects that will occur if this suggestion if used.

The Neon Peon wrote:If you want another problem, people can always reserve all the slots, wait 24 hours, then it will fill with only new recruits.

This problem would be prevented.

The Neon Peon wrote:Here's a suggestion that changes nothing else but farming, and prevents it from happening even if people use the reserving games method to farm, foeing every non-new recruit, or inviting 7 new recruits into a gae: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104879

I've seen people set up lots of 2 player games and reserve them. When they got to the top of the 'Join A Game' games list the players unreserved them and most filled with New Recruits. The players got away with their farming by saying it's not their fault who joins their games. Your solution does not solve this problem, mine does.

StephenB wrote:

The Neon Peon wrote:Here's a suggestion that changes nothing else but farming, and prevents it from happening even if people use the reserving games method to farm, foeing every non-new recruit, or inviting 7 new recruits into a gae: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104879

I've seen people set up lot's of 2 player games and reserve them. When they got to the top of the 'Join A Game' games list the players unreserved them and most filled with New Recruits. The players got away with their farming by saying it's not their fault who joins their games. Your solution does not solve this problem, mine does.

No, actually when someone reserves games and they become unreserved, they go straight to the top of the first page in the game finder, even if they are not supposed to be there yet.

And how does mine not solve this? You won't even be able to farm if you create multis to join your games under my suggestion, because they would not be able to join.

StephenB wrote:

The Neon Peon wrote:Oh yeah... real perfect. A ton of games only fill because they make the first or second page of the join a game page. I've started my share of games and looked at where they will be, even without repeating the same map, many of the games will get to the 3rd page before even the second person joins. After that, they fill with non-new recruits.

The problem with all the updates we've had in the past while is that often people are asking for one thing to change: have the stats to be optional to be placed at the bottom of the map rather than at the side. Lack changes it plus something else = people aren't happy. Same with this. You are taking solving farming a step further, but you're changing something for the rest of us that some don't want to happen.

If they aren't starting then that's because people don't want to play the games you've set up. Having new players (not only New Recruits) join a game with unpopular settings which they will probably not like is not the answer to the 'game not filling' problem. Creating different games is.

People always have joined, and always will. I've played with less than 15 new recruits in my 3000 games on CC, even when I start 50 at a time. Why? Because the way the join a game page is set up makes games that are not meant to target new recruits, fill up. The settings are fine, it is simply that many people do not use the game finder to look for games, just the join a game page when they are on the first couple of pages.

With this suggestion, most of the time when I start a batch of 50 games, they would not fill anymore. I don't see why I should suffer because you want to keep new recruits from joining someone else's games.

The Neon Peon wrote:No, actually when someone reserves games and they become unreserved, they go straight to the top of the first page in the game finder, even if they are not supposed to be there yet.

And how does mine not solve this? You won't even be able to farm if you create multis to join your games under my suggestion, because they would not be able to join.

It does not solve it because it still allows one New Recruit per game. A farmer can create 10 2-player games and have 10 New recruits as opponents.

The Neon Peon wrote:People always have joined, and always will. I've played with less than 15 new recruits in my 3000 games on CC, even when I start 50 at a time. Why? Because the way the join a game page is set up makes games that are not meant to target new recruits, fill up. The settings are fine, it is simply that many people do not use the game finder to look for games, just the join a game page when they are on the first couple of pages.

With this suggestion, most of the time when I start a batch of 50 games, they would not fill anymore. I don't see why I should suffer because you want to keep new recruits from joining someone else's games.

You would not have to suffer. People would still see your games through Join A Game, just not all at once and not all at the same time.

StephenB wrote:

The Neon Peon wrote:No, actually when someone reserves games and they become unreserved, they go straight to the top of the first page in the game finder, even if they are not supposed to be there yet.

And how does mine not solve this? You won't even be able to farm if you create multis to join your games under my suggestion, because they would not be able to join.

It does not solve it because it still allows one New Recruit per game. A farmer can create 10 2-player games and have 10 New recruits as opponents.

No, it's impossible. You can create as many 2 or 3 player games as you want on any map and settings, they will never get to page 1 of the join a game page... they just fill too fast.

Edit: now that I think about it, how would this solve farming? If the map and settings are so horrible that normal people don't want to join, wouldn't the games still just hang around until new recruits fill them? All that would be altered would that new recruits would join randomly (whenever it's on the first page) instead of all at once (when it reaches the first page)

The Neon Peon wrote:No, it's impossible. You can create as many 2 or 3 player games as you want on any map and settings, they will never get to page 1 of the join a game page... they just fill too fast.

As meantioned before, it is easy to reserve games and then unreserve them when they hit the top of the page.

The Neon Peon wrote:Edit: now that I think about it, how would this solve farming? If the map and settings are so horrible that normal people don't want to join, wouldn't the games still just hang around until new recruits fill them? All that would be altered would that new recruits would join randomly (whenever it's on the first page) instead of all at once (when it reaches the first page)

I don't think their is a combination terrible enough for nobody to want to play it when it is their in front of them (which is why the invisible to New Recruit games still fill when they get to the top of the list), but lots of games are bad enough for most people not to go looking for them.

New Recruits would be spread out randomly.

StephenB wrote:

The Neon Peon wrote:No, it's impossible. You can create as many 2 or 3 player games as you want on any map and settings, they will never get to page 1 of the join a game page... they just fill too fast.

As meantioned before, it is easy to reserve games and then unreserve them when they hit the top of the page.

Reserving games to get them filled with new recruits will get you banned even now.

StephenB wrote:

The Neon Peon wrote:Edit: now that I think about it, how would this solve farming? If the map and settings are so horrible that normal people don't want to join, wouldn't the games still just hang around until new recruits fill them? All that would be altered would that new recruits would join randomly (whenever it's on the first page) instead of all at once (when it reaches the first page)

I don't think their is a combination terrible enough for nobody to want to play it when it is their in front of them (which is why the invisible to New Recruit games still fill when they get to the top of the list), but lots of games are bad enough for most people not to go looking for them.

New Recruits would be spread out randomly.

If this was the case, then the games would fill with mostly non new recruits when they hit page 1. 90% of the active members of the site are not new recruits, and those that are not new recruits still use the join a game page. However, the farmer's games are 98% filled with new recruits. Why? Because almost no one wants to play on those settings. When a game is on page 1 of the join a games page, a whole lot more ranked players see them than new recruits.

Take a look at it form a different perspective, then: the game gets to page 1, a decent player finds it and joins as the second or third in a 5 player game... the game gets filled with new recruits in 20 minutes and the farmer gets stuck with it. Under your suggestion: the game gets on page 1, a decent player finds it and joins as the second or third in a 5 player game... the game is no longer on page 1 and it takes another several days for it to fill, the farmer foes and drops the game and does not have to play with a non-new recruit.

The Neon Peon wrote:If this was the case, then the games would fill with mostly non new recruits when they hit page 1. 90% of the active members of the site are not new recruits, and those that are not new recruits still use the join a game page. However, the farmer's games are 98% filled with new recruits. Why? Because almost no one wants to play on those settings. When a game is on page 1 of the join a games page, a whole lot more ranked players see them than new recruits.

I think you are forgetting that what is at the top of a New Recruit's list, is not at the top of everyone elses, which is why the ranked players that use Join A Game normally don't play with New Recruits. If the Join A Game list was randomised every time Join A Game gets clicked there would be no way of abusing the system.

The Neon Peon wrote:Take a look at it form a different perspective, then: the game gets to page 1, a decent player finds it and joins as the second or third in a 5 player game... the game gets filled with new recruits in 20 minutes and the farmer gets stuck with it. Under your suggestion: the game gets on page 1, a decent player finds it and joins as the second or third in a 5 player game... the game is no longer on page 1 and it takes another several days for it to fill, the farmer foes and drops the game and does not have to play with a non-new recruit.

This is about preventing farming, not occasionally having a farmer play a game or two against ranked players.

StephenB wrote:

The Neon Peon wrote:If this was the case, then the games would fill with mostly non new recruits when they hit page 1. 90% of the active members of the site are not new recruits, and those that are not new recruits still use the join a game page. However, the farmer's games are 98% filled with new recruits. Why? Because almost no one wants to play on those settings. When a game is on page 1 of the join a games page, a whole lot more ranked players see them than new recruits.

I think you are forgetting that what is at the top of a New Recruit's list, is not at the top of everyone elses, which is why the ranked players that use Join A Game normally don't play with New Recruits.

That was my point exactly, if actual players don't join when it is at the top of their list, they won't join it when it is at the top of their randomized list either. If actual players never join, then new recruits join or the game never starts. If only new recruits join or the game never starts, farming continues as it always has.

The Neon Peon wrote:Take a look at it form a different perspective, then: the game gets to page 1, a decent player finds it and joins as the second or third in a 5 player game... the game gets filled with new recruits in 20 minutes and the farmer gets stuck with it. Under your suggestion: the game gets on page 1, a decent player finds it and joins as the second or third in a 5 player game... the game is no longer on page 1 and it takes another several days for it to fill, the farmer foes and drops the game and does not have to play with a non-new recruit.

This is about preventing farming, not occasionally having a farmer play a game or two against ranked players.

If they had to play a game or two against high ranks, that is preventing farming, since it would not be profitable for them to do it.

The Neon Peon wrote:That was my point exactly, if actual players don't join when it is at the top of their list, they won't join it when it is at the top of their randomized list either. If actual players never join, then new recruits join or the game never starts. If only new recruits join or the game never starts, farming continues as it always has.

Do you realise how long it would take for the game to get round to enough New Recruits for it to fill? It's far more likely it is seen by ranked players who decide to give the game a try. If like you say, no ranked player wants to join, then yes, eventually the game would fill with deadbeats.

The Neon Peon wrote:If they had to play a game or two against high ranks, that is preventing farming, since it would not be profitable for them to do it.

Of course it would still be profitable. The ranked player might take 20 points off per game and even that's only if the farmer lost every time. He can get those points back through farming more New Recruits. If the farmer gains 5 points per New Recruit and plays 10 New Recruits for every ranked player, he still makes a profit.