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Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby owenshooter on Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:29 am

people have been saying the same thing for years and it has fallen on deaf ears. the admins are content with what they have going here and change is far too long in between... i won't get into the systematic destruction of the forums, i'll just stick to comments on your rehashed/revisited spot on idea... this is a no brainer, i do not know why they have not done some sort of version of this. making a PAID tournament that then releases a press release picked up by 1 outlet, is not the way to bring members back or new people knocking on the door. this site is stale/stagnate and is slowly dying. they need to move forward or just simply wait for something better to come along and render them obsolete...-el Jesus negro

Fozzie wrote:Here's my two cents... I've been a member for a long time, and have always been freemium. I've never paid for two reasons - I 'm a cheapskate, and I'm afraid that if I was allowed more than four games at a time I would spend all of my time here. My wife would not like that at all (so maybe that's three reasons.) Anyway, the site has become somewhat intimidating. 200+ maps to play is great, but asking a noobie to sort through them and understand what he's looking at is ridiculous. Map categories are badly needed. Choosing those categories will be an entirely separate argument. And I would also be in favor of restricting some of the game options for noobies until they complete X number of games. Don't take away any of the complexity from the advanced users (nobody is forced to join a game with options they don't like), but making those options something that a player must "earn" the ability to play is just fine. Video games have been doing that for years - with unlockable levels, etc.

Allowing freemium players to play one speed game at a time could be a hook to get more members, and may even get more people to upgrade to be able to play more than one at a time. Again, make this something that you must earn the right to get. And I also think that accounts that have been inactive for a long period of time (years) should be deleted.

Regarding the points, rankings, and possibly having more than one scoreboard: points are points. How you get them is up to you. Personally I think it's harder to beat 7 other players in 1 game than it is to beat 7 different people 1v1. And I am proud of my ranking and every point that I have earned, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact that other people are ahead of me. Changing the scoreboard should be a low priority.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby nippersean on Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:05 pm

Damn fine post Fozzie. In various forms these have been suggested before. Personally I'm still not convinced there's so much wrong with the site. Just might be helpful if a few of the ones Fozzie highlighted actually got done.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby krikee on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:02 pm

Mr Changsha wrote:1. Abolish fog
2. Abolish Freestyle.


A hearty "amen" to #2, and may #1 never happen.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:41 pm

Tis true, without war on cc, especially on an intellectual level, stagnation is inevitable. Good vs. Evil, etc., etc., ect....
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:09 am

Can some one please explain it to me, how we know that membership is actually in decline?

Is there a business report out on CC in the Wall Street Journal or something?

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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:49 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Can some one please explain it to me, how we know that membership is actually in decline?

Is there a business report out on CC in the Wall Street Journal or something?

779

Look at the scoreboard. There is a line at the top that says something like:
15117 results on 61 pages:

Names are removed from the scoreboard if they haven't played within 30 days, so that 15117 tells you how many people were playing 30 days ago. Then go to this thread:http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=152877 and compare numbers that were posted by other people on other dates, like this one:Subject: Is CC Declining?
MrBenn wrote:
Pirlo wrote:and now the scoreboard says 16637 instead of +17300 a couple of weeks ago!

16192 now
(Just as a randomly-chosen example.)
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:29 pm

Thanks! I did not know that.

I guess that it could also be a seasonal thing. perhaps membership goes up in the winter season when folks don't want to go out into the cold so much and down in the summer months when everyone wants to be at the beach and all. Or I could be wrong?
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:11 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Thanks! I did not know that.

I guess that it could also be a seasonal thing. perhaps membership goes up in the winter season when folks don't want to go out into the cold so much and down in the summer months when everyone wants to be at the beach and all. Or I could be wrong?
782

You're quite right, there is a seasonal fluctuation. Unfortunately, the drop we have seen over the last year or so is too large for the seasonal fluctuation to account for.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:24 pm

15095 on 61 pages
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Robinette on Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:39 am

Dukasaur wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:Thanks! I did not know that.

I guess that it could also be a seasonal thing. perhaps membership goes up in the winter season when folks don't want to go out into the cold so much and down in the summer months when everyone wants to be at the beach and all. Or I could be wrong?
782

You're quite right, there is a seasonal fluctuation. Unfortunately, the drop we have seen over the last year or so is too large for the seasonal fluctuation to account for.



To really understand this properly,
it would be helpful to know a few more things...

Are premium members dropping at a greater rate? or less?
Are other similar established sites trending down? or up?
Are we trending less new recruits? or trending more retiring veterans?
Are "referred members" trending down at a greater rate?

mnnnnnn... makes you wonder.......
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby neanderpaul14 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:39 pm

15013 results on 61 pages

one thing all new players look for are real time games. playing games
over long periods of time is something they need to get used to. being able
to play speed games would definitely help keep new players interested and
willing to stick around. my guess is, over time, bigger share of them would
get hooked and go premium.

abandoning some of the options would not help with new players. maybe
limiting some of the settings would help so they don't get overwhelmed.
losing some of the options would only alienate veterans who prefer to have
all possible game settings available.

excellent article Mr Changsha
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby TDK on Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:13 am

I think the one change mentioned in this tread that would make all the difference is making the speed games open to all. Limit the number of simultaneous games, limit the number of maps available, limit just about anything, but let the freemiums have speed games - chances of them getting hooked enough to drop dollars is much higher.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:30 pm

Ok I read the first four pages of this and am hoping what I have to say is not repeating anyone.
I will admit that when I first joined the site I was interested in simply playing a game of risk when I could not play in rl.
I am not sure, however, that casual gamers leaving is the reason for the decline. Could it be that the element of rank spoils the "casual" atmosphere for every player, veteran or new? Winning a game loses some of its thunder when its overshadowed by the fact that you are "still a private". Its a disgusting film that covers this site. It sucks the life out of the game tbh.
Its like hanging out in a casino, everyone is supposed to be having fun but look around you and most people look miserable, or at least much more serious than you can be to enjoy a game as you should.
My suggestion, if this is the point of this thread, is to have a whole separate area of games where scoring is not affected. Rank will not matter during these games, I don't care how you figure this possible, just make it so. I'm sure you all can work something out.
Picture this:
You are invited to your friends house and after dinner you all decide to play a game of risk. Only when the game starts, everyone puts on costumes according to how many games they have won in the past. Your friend's Dad has a fekking crown on his head, get what I mean? You get a shabby overcoat. You make this a regular thing but no matter how many times you beat your friends dad (about half the time) he still gets to wear the crown and you the shabby coat because he plays seven days a week and you can only fit in one. He beats your friends' other friends constantly because they are just there for the food and therefore racks up more and more points on his little scoresheet. He's not even fun to play against, he just sits there silently, checking his scoresheet from time to time. One week you are invited to come over for the usual game and you tell him you can't because you have to wash your hair.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby 72o on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:02 am

My favorite games are 8-man escalating on Classic. There are still tons of those games available publicly. I play in a lot of them, and join around 10 a week.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby kentington on Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:10 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:Ok I read the first four pages of this and am hoping what I have to say is not repeating anyone.
I will admit that when I first joined the site I was interested in simply playing a game of risk when I could not play in rl.
I am not sure, however, that casual gamers leaving is the reason for the decline. Could it be that the element of rank spoils the "casual" atmosphere for every player, veteran or new? Winning a game loses some of its thunder when its overshadowed by the fact that you are "still a private". Its a disgusting film that covers this site. It sucks the life out of the game tbh.
Its like hanging out in a casino, everyone is supposed to be having fun but look around you and most people look miserable, or at least much more serious than you can be to enjoy a game as you should.
My suggestion, if this is the point of this thread, is to have a whole separate area of games where scoring is not affected. Rank will not matter during these games, I don't care how you figure this possible, just make it so. I'm sure you all can work something out.
Picture this:
You are invited to your friends house and after dinner you all decide to play a game of risk. Only when the game starts, everyone puts on costumes according to how many games they have won in the past. Your friend's Dad has a fekking crown on his head, get what I mean? You get a shabby overcoat. You make this a regular thing but no matter how many times you beat your friends dad (about half the time) he still gets to wear the crown and you the shabby coat because he plays seven days a week and you can only fit in one. He beats your friends' other friends constantly because they are just there for the food and therefore racks up more and more points on his little scoresheet. He's not even fun to play against, he just sits there silently, checking his scoresheet from time to time. One week you are invited to come over for the usual game and you tell him you can't because you have to wash your hair.


FunkyT-Bone, I agree with you here. I don't know that others feel this way, but I have often wished for unranked games. I think the flaming in those sections would be a lot less. The only problem I see with this is that deadbeaters will increase. Possible solution is that premiums can use a filter so that they don't have to play against those with a deadbeat level of -1 or lower. Whatever that ranking would be.
Bruceswar » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:59 pm wrote:We all had tons of men..
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Kentington, good point on the deadbeating aspect. No rank/scoring could lead to increased apathy in regard to completing games.
I am trying to follow the train of thought of the OP and bring this all to its natural conclusion. His theory is that most people who try out the game are actually casual users and are really just looking for a place to play risk in its purest form. While these new players may or may not stay for the long haul and eventually become premium members, they must at least find the fix they are looking for in order to give the site a chance. Admittedly a new player could find his first experience discouraging, never coming back. It is one explanation that could explain the decline of cc.
I myself agree in part with the OP's theory in that the reason the site is in decline is because it has drifted away from the original spirit of the game. Yes, convoluted maps and strange settings, while they bring a temporary breath of fresh air to the game, end up being havens for point farming and tend to scare away "casual" players. But I think at the root is the points system, for these maps and settings would be far less popular without it.

The site has a tendency to create a sort of evolution in a player once they become acquainted:

Brand New player- "This is so cool, I can play risk anytime I want!" ---> (level 10 fun meter)
Learning the ropes- "Hmm, Seems like ranks means a lot in this community..." --->(level 8 fun)
Climbing the ladder- (level 5-8 fun, depending on how much you win) --->
Plateau- Here is where a lot of players leave I think. The site focuses so much on points that I believe a lot of people lose interest. Unless you have a very strong lust for competition or are involved socially, this site could become a real drag, some would say fatally flawed. With the spirit of the game robbed by the points system, each game becomes a means to an end. The hugely successful board game was never like this. There was much more "living in the moment" excitement. Some people may pay for premium while in the frenzy of seeking higher rank but will they re-subscribe? Most likely not.
The more games players want to play, the more likely they will buy premium. If the general mood of the site were shifted by a major overhaul of not disposal of the points sytem I think that new/casual players would stay longer and want to play more games. This leads to more premium subscriptions. As far as the dissolution of the current hierarchy, most people believe in their heart of hearts that tournaments are a better sign of skill than rank anyway so let that determine the conqueror and even all rank.
My only suggestion about something that would draw players into a premium membership is maybe to have that be a condition to being a member of a clan? The whole axis of the site would have shifted at this point so who knows, maybe clan wars/tournaments would be the driving force of the site, pick up games becoming tools to hone our skills. Doesn't it all sound glorious? Let us break the chains of sad attachment to rank and let the teaming masses clash. :twisted:
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Woodruff on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:25 pm

kentington wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:Ok I read the first four pages of this and am hoping what I have to say is not repeating anyone.
I will admit that when I first joined the site I was interested in simply playing a game of risk when I could not play in rl.
I am not sure, however, that casual gamers leaving is the reason for the decline. Could it be that the element of rank spoils the "casual" atmosphere for every player, veteran or new? Winning a game loses some of its thunder when its overshadowed by the fact that you are "still a private". Its a disgusting film that covers this site. It sucks the life out of the game tbh.
Its like hanging out in a casino, everyone is supposed to be having fun but look around you and most people look miserable, or at least much more serious than you can be to enjoy a game as you should.
My suggestion, if this is the point of this thread, is to have a whole separate area of games where scoring is not affected. Rank will not matter during these games, I don't care how you figure this possible, just make it so. I'm sure you all can work something out.
Picture this:
You are invited to your friends house and after dinner you all decide to play a game of risk. Only when the game starts, everyone puts on costumes according to how many games they have won in the past. Your friend's Dad has a fekking crown on his head, get what I mean? You get a shabby overcoat. You make this a regular thing but no matter how many times you beat your friends dad (about half the time) he still gets to wear the crown and you the shabby coat because he plays seven days a week and you can only fit in one. He beats your friends' other friends constantly because they are just there for the food and therefore racks up more and more points on his little scoresheet. He's not even fun to play against, he just sits there silently, checking his scoresheet from time to time. One week you are invited to come over for the usual game and you tell him you can't because you have to wash your hair.


FunkyT-Bone, I agree with you here. I don't know that others feel this way, but I have often wished for unranked games. I think the flaming in those sections would be a lot less. The only problem I see with this is that deadbeaters will increase. Possible solution is that premiums can use a filter so that they don't have to play against those with a deadbeat level of -1 or lower. Whatever that ranking would be.


The site is not interested in doing this because it holds the idiotic idea that it would corrupt the ranking system. Yeah, that system that already is corrupted so badly that it's worthless.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby kentington on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:57 pm

Woodruff wrote:
kentington wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:Ok I read the first four pages of this and am hoping what I have to say is not repeating anyone.
I will admit that when I first joined the site I was interested in simply playing a game of risk when I could not play in rl.
I am not sure, however, that casual gamers leaving is the reason for the decline. Could it be that the element of rank spoils the "casual" atmosphere for every player, veteran or new? Winning a game loses some of its thunder when its overshadowed by the fact that you are "still a private". Its a disgusting film that covers this site. It sucks the life out of the game tbh.
Its like hanging out in a casino, everyone is supposed to be having fun but look around you and most people look miserable, or at least much more serious than you can be to enjoy a game as you should.
My suggestion, if this is the point of this thread, is to have a whole separate area of games where scoring is not affected. Rank will not matter during these games, I don't care how you figure this possible, just make it so. I'm sure you all can work something out.
Picture this:
You are invited to your friends house and after dinner you all decide to play a game of risk. Only when the game starts, everyone puts on costumes according to how many games they have won in the past. Your friend's Dad has a fekking crown on his head, get what I mean? You get a shabby overcoat. You make this a regular thing but no matter how many times you beat your friends dad (about half the time) he still gets to wear the crown and you the shabby coat because he plays seven days a week and you can only fit in one. He beats your friends' other friends constantly because they are just there for the food and therefore racks up more and more points on his little scoresheet. He's not even fun to play against, he just sits there silently, checking his scoresheet from time to time. One week you are invited to come over for the usual game and you tell him you can't because you have to wash your hair.


FunkyT-Bone, I agree with you here. I don't know that others feel this way, but I have often wished for unranked games. I think the flaming in those sections would be a lot less. The only problem I see with this is that deadbeaters will increase. Possible solution is that premiums can use a filter so that they don't have to play against those with a deadbeat level of -1 or lower. Whatever that ranking would be.


The site is not interested in doing this because it holds the idiotic idea that it would corrupt the ranking system. Yeah, that system that already is corrupted so badly that it's worthless.


I see your point and raise you five.
While what you say may be true, I am just posting what would make it more enjoyable for me. I don't think my idea will actually be implemented. So, why do I still post it? Just to exercise my free speech. :)

Yes, the point system is hurting. As long as you have ranks you will have those who abuse the system to get the highest ranks. Which is why I avoid any top rankers in games. They usually haven't gotten there without a lot of grinding and some abuse, whether intentional or not.
Bruceswar » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:59 pm wrote:We all had tons of men..
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:49 pm

(1) The truth is that we are only a small sample, and our area of concern (?'ers) are completely missing from our analysis.

In order to understand the problem and find ways to effectively expand, they'd have to conduct basic marketing research (e.g. surveys).

Until then, we're just spinning our wheels--on the issue of new recruits. On other issues it's different:


(2) Over time, some veterans do get bored, but with all the updates, new maps, etc. most veterans remain, but this may change (again, lacking statistics on subgroup behavior doesn't help).

(3) Finally, if the perceived profits of addressing the problem fail to offset (lackattack's) the opportunity cost, then we can expect CC to ignore the problems, or not take the problems seriously.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby kentington on Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:09 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:(1) The truth is that we are only a small sample, and our area of concern (?'ers) are completely missing from our analysis.

In order to understand the problem and find ways to effectively expand, they'd have to conduct basic marketing research (e.g. surveys).

Until then, we're just spinning our wheels--on the issue of new recruits. On other issues it's different:


(2) Over time, some veterans do get bored, but with all the updates, new maps, etc. most veterans remain, but this may change (again, lacking statistics on subgroup behavior doesn't help).

(3) Finally, if the perceived profits of addressing the problem fail to offset (lackattack's) the opportunity cost, then we can expect CC to ignore the problems, or not take the problems seriously.


I have to say I love it when people can give pretty sound theories and still manage to be entertaining. It may be because I picture Jack Nicholson in a dinosaur outfit saying all of this stuff.
Bruceswar » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:59 pm wrote:We all had tons of men..
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:38 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:(1) The truth is that we are only a small sample, and our area of concern (?'ers) are completely missing from our analysis.

In order to understand the problem and find ways to effectively expand, they'd have to conduct basic marketing research (e.g. surveys).

Until then, we're just spinning our wheels--on the issue of new recruits. On other issues it's different:


(2) Over time, some veterans do get bored, but with all the updates, new maps, etc. most veterans remain, but this may change (again, lacking statistics on subgroup behavior doesn't help).

(3) Finally, if the perceived profits of addressing the problem fail to offset (lackattack's) the opportunity cost, then we can expect CC to ignore the problems, or not take the problems seriously.

1st Point:

I'll address the ?s. They are the ones who come to the site and find that links to the site are basically false advertising in that you can't play free risk online here. That is, without waiting a day or so to take your first turn.

2nd Point:

I agree that most veterans won't leave. I, however, think this has little to do with new updates. They are just hooked. Those that leave are either pissed at the management, dice, precious time being lost :P or are just simply tired of risk (most rare).

3rd Point:

True, and the fact that the paying customers of cc seem more motivated to investigate market research of the site than its profiteer only reenforces the suspicion that he doesn't think its worth the venture.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:44 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:(1) The truth is that we are only a small sample, and our area of concern (?'ers) are completely missing from our analysis.

In order to understand the problem and find ways to effectively expand, they'd have to conduct basic marketing research (e.g. surveys).

Until then, we're just spinning our wheels--on the issue of new recruits. On other issues it's different:


(2) Over time, some veterans do get bored, but with all the updates, new maps, etc. most veterans remain, but this may change (again, lacking statistics on subgroup behavior doesn't help).

(3) Finally, if the perceived profits of addressing the problem fail to offset (lackattack's) the opportunity cost, then we can expect CC to ignore the problems, or not take the problems seriously.

1st Point:

I'll address the ?s. They are the ones who come to the site and find that links to the site are basically false advertising in that you can't play free risk online here. That is, without waiting a day or so to take your first turn.


My intuition leads me to agree with you; however, since we are both lacking the empirical evidence, this hypothesis has yet to be verified.

My main point is that rational planning requires information which is currently insufficient. Without that, we could "shoot from the hip" but accidentally shoot ourselves in the foot.*


Funkyterrance wrote:2nd Point:

I agree that most veterans won't leave. I, however, think this has little to do with new updates. They are just hooked. Those that leave are either pissed at the management, dice, precious time being lost :P or are just simply tired of risk (most rare).


See my response to your 1st Point. :P


Funkyterrance wrote:3rd Point:

True, and the fact that the paying customers of cc seem more motivated to investigate market research of the site than its profiteer only reenforces the suspicion that he doesn't think its worth the venture.


What is to be done?

Shall we start a vanguard?




*I'm not sure why I'm saying "we" because "we" are not shareholders. Of course, "our feedback is important to them," but it's amusing how I identify with this site. That might not be healthy. Might have to engage in another Stalinist purge soon.
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:46 pm

kentington wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:(1) The truth is that we are only a small sample, and our area of concern (?'ers) are completely missing from our analysis.

In order to understand the problem and find ways to effectively expand, they'd have to conduct basic marketing research (e.g. surveys).

Until then, we're just spinning our wheels--on the issue of new recruits. On other issues it's different:


(2) Over time, some veterans do get bored, but with all the updates, new maps, etc. most veterans remain, but this may change (again, lacking statistics on subgroup behavior doesn't help).

(3) Finally, if the perceived profits of addressing the problem fail to offset (lackattack's) the opportunity cost, then we can expect CC to ignore the problems, or not take the problems seriously.


I have to say I love it when people can give pretty sound theories and still manage to be entertaining. It may be because I picture Jack Nicholson in a dinosaur outfit saying all of this stuff.



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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:32 pm

I actually came here to play Risk on maps other than classic.

OH NO! TGD JUST THREW A WHOLE MONKEY WRENCH INTO THE THING! RUN!
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Re: Why CC's Membership is (actually) Declining

Postby Woodruff on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:48 pm

thegreekdog wrote:I actually came here to play Risk on maps other than classic.


Me too. For me, the tremendous map variance is why I'm still here. And pretty much the only reason.
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