Conquer Club

I had a vision this morning. Clans with about 10 players each, but many, many more clans. Basic dubs, trips and quads games reduced to a state of laughable obsolescence. The farming of the terminally uncoordinated in casual team games a thing of the past. Standard no cards and flat games something 'stripers used to do before they could play polymorphic quads'. Fundamental changes all over the scoreboard.

I think this is going to be an absolutely revolutionary moment for Conquer Club. Is it going to make the site stronger and healthier? I'm still considering that, but I can't see how even in the reasonably long-term how clans are going to avoid the polymorphic wave, I can't see how players like me are going to continue to play team games, even knowing that I will lose the team spirit I so value, when I can control everything and play speed trips, and it is just easier to play polymorphically.

So I predict here that within six months clans will play polymorphically. I predict that most team game players will be playing polymorphically within two months and I predict that most standard flat/no cards players with be playing polymorphically in a similar amount of time.

Everything is going to change, I just can't work out if it is a good thing or not.

I still think people will like the opinion of others and the "team feeling" associated with doubs, trips and quads.. and possibly even larger teams now that we have access to 12 player games.
There will be some change, for sure; but I still think the old style team games will have a place here in CC.
And what about other possible options, semi-polymorph.. Team 1 all (or partial) 1 player and team 2 all individuals? There are many possibilities

I'm playing a few polymorphic games now, and it's just not the same as playing a team game. Sure, you get to control the entire thing and you don't need to discuss strategy, but it's like team games for loners. I'd miss the jokes and jibes that go on in games with my clan, even if they are sometimes at my expense. That's what makes team games worth it.

I don't think it'll kill team games at all.

I hope serious clan wars avoid polymorph since they aren't really team games. Clans wouldn't have a purpose anymore. Won't happen. We are here to stay!

If you wanted to have full control, you already played 1v1 instead of team games.
Polymorph is the new 1v1 for non conquest maps. I expect the number of 1v1 games going down way faster than the number of regular team games (not sure if that number will go down at all).

Death of team games?
Exactly the opposite in the long term.

It gives people new to the site easy access to "team games" without needing to find people to play with. Inevitably some of these people will find it very fun and seek out clans to join once their ego's tell them they rock at it.
In the long term this change should boost the number of capable team players.

Change the scoreboard? Definitely. Great team players with a tendency to farm won't be able to resist all the n00bs throwing up polymorphic quads. It will be the way to farm, legally. Pray on the incompetent.
Now you only need ONE n00b to join that quads game you threw up on map/settings that 4 people rarely would join...

The revolution is truly here now.

Mr Changsha wrote:
So I predict here that within six months clans will play polymorphically.

I don't think the clan world will accept polymorphic games in tournaments like CC or CL but will for 1 v 1 clashes. So it will be an interesting change.

I'm opposed to polymorphic becoming anything more than a fringe setting in clans... if you want to replace the big 1v1 event with polymorphic, great - but clans should still be about true team gameplay.

I'm not as confident as some of the posters. I agree with Changsha on this one. Some of the big egos in clans will be in love with the idea that they can be a complete team by themselves, without having to take inferior players on board. I'm sure polymorphic games will inevitably become a major part of the landscape.

As far as "the death of team games" ... that I think is overstating the case. Team games will continue to be relevant. They will have a reduced but substantial following.

Swifte wrote:I'm opposed to polymorphic becoming anything more than a fringe setting in clans... if you want to replace the big 1v1 event with polymorphic, great - but clans should still be about true team gameplay.

I haven't actually decided if I will support polymorphic clan games. As I said though, what I see is an inevitable decline of team games (not dubs, trips and quads games which will massively increase if on a polymorphic basis), which will naturally and quickly result in pressure to have limited polymorphic clan games, then unlimited polymorphic clan games, before finally it will only be polymorphic games.

I honestly don't see clans being able to resist the change. I'm not actually sure yet if I even support it, I just don't see how this new setting will not radically change clans. As I wrote in the OP, I see smaller clans in our future..but many more of them. It might even be a good thing...

Arama86n wrote:Death of team games?
Exactly the opposite in the long term.

It gives people new to the site easy access to "team games" without needing to find people to play with. Inevitably some of these people will find it very fun and seek out clans to join once their ego's tell them they rock at it.
In the long term this change should boost the number of capable team players.

Change the scoreboard? Definitely. Great team players with a tendency to farm won't be able to resist all the n00bs throwing up polymorphic quads. It will be the way to farm, legally. Pray on the incompetent.
Now you only need ONE n00b to join that quads game you threw up on map/settings that 4 people rarely would join...

The revolution is truly here now.

I disagree with your interpretation of the farming consequences. I think polymorphic games will actually hugely improve the current situation in this regard. The great advantage established trips and quads teams have over the rest is that they are properly coordinated. Yet now, a striper is in control of his army. I am far from convinced that stripers are going to get beaten so easily with these new settings. In fact, I am pretty sure that my main advantage - team coordination - is now obsolete.

Seulessliathan wrote:If you wanted to have full control, you already played 1v1 instead of team games.
Polymorph is the new 1v1 for non conquest maps. I expect the number of 1v1 games going down way faster than the number of regular team games (not sure if that number will go down at all).

We will see. There are currently 900 odd active polymorphic games and 1500 odd active dubs, trips and quads games (casual/private only). If I am right, and I'm pretty sure I am, we will see this number reversed in about a month.

I agree that this setting was brought in to replace 1vs1. I think the (possibly) unintended consequence is that it will also replace team games.

Shannon Apple wrote:I'm playing a few polymorphic games now, and it's just not the same as playing a team game. Sure, you get to control the entire thing and you don't need to discuss strategy, but it's like team games for loners. I'd miss the jokes and jibes that go on in games with my clan, even if they are sometimes at my expense. That's what makes team games worth it.

I don't think it'll kill team games at all.

I hope serious clan wars avoid polymorph since they aren't really team games. Clans wouldn't have a purpose anymore. Won't happen. We are here to stay!

Clans aren't going anywhere...I completely agree.

I just think clans will have about 10 players in each playing exclusively polymorphic games against other clans doing exactly the same thing.

Is this better? I'm not sure, but I think it is the inevitable consequence of polymorphia.

Mr Changsha wrote:

Arama86n wrote:Death of team games?
Exactly the opposite in the long term.

It gives people new to the site easy access to "team games" without needing to find people to play with. Inevitably some of these people will find it very fun and seek out clans to join once their ego's tell them they rock at it.
In the long term this change should boost the number of capable team players.

Change the scoreboard? Definitely. Great team players with a tendency to farm won't be able to resist all the n00bs throwing up polymorphic quads. It will be the way to farm, legally. Pray on the incompetent.
Now you only need ONE n00b to join that quads game you threw up on map/settings that 4 people rarely would join...

The revolution is truly here now.

I disagree with your interpretation of the farming consequences. I think polymorphic games will actually hugely improve the current situation in this regard. The great advantage established trips and quads teams have over the rest is that they are properly coordinated. Yet now, a striper is in control of his army. I am far from convinced that stripers are going to get beaten so easily with these new settings. In fact, I am pretty sure that my main advantage - team coordination - is now obsolete.

I think you'll be happilly suprised here.
Think of it as a 1v1 game, if oppo is good, then it will be a good game, but with a far reduced luck factor as opposed to a 1v1 on classic. But.. if oppo is crap, with the luck factor reduced it will be a walk in the park.
Time will tell.
But as I said, I think it's a great oppertunity for the "stripers", as you put it, to evolve, and work on their team-game, even if they are obnoxious uncomunicative morons that no-one in a clan would go near... so in a way your right

i can forsee the gap between the top and bottom clans potentially getting smaller.
The top clans have players that all listen and discuss startegy. If one map has a player that knows what to do he can rely on his 3 team mates doing what he asks.
The lower clans have players that miss turns or don't read chat and do their own thing.
Polymorphic clan wars lets the smaller clans win maps with their better players that would normally be lost

Mr Changsha wrote:I had a vision this morning. Clans with about 10 players each, but many, many more clans. Basic dubs, trips and quads games reduced to a state of laughable obsolescence. The farming of the terminally uncoordinated in casual team games a thing of the past. Standard no cards and flat games something 'stripers used to do before they could play polymorphic quads'. Fundamental changes all over the scoreboard.

I think this is going to be an absolutely revolutionary moment for Conquer Club. Is it going to make the site stronger and healthier? I'm still considering that, but I can't see how even in the reasonably long-term how clans are going to avoid the polymorphic wave, I can't see how players like me are going to continue to play team games, even knowing that I will lose the team spirit I so value, when I can control everything and play speed trips, and it is just easier to play polymorphically.

So I predict here that within six months clans will play polymorphically. I predict that most team game players will be playing polymorphically within two months and I predict that most standard flat/no cards players with be playing polymorphically in a similar amount of time.

Everything is going to change, I just can't work out if it is a good thing or not.

Well reasoned article here. I'm not sure how much of it I agree with. On the clan issue, I could see a rule made prohibiting or restricting poly games similar to no fs or beta maps etc.. or simply having some wars exclusively poly as a break from the norm.. and I don't see the death of team games @ all.. I see a short term bump in poly games with a subsequent decrease in team games.. I think this will be a short lived thing however... kind of a fad for people that like 1 v 1 but wanna change it up for a bit. In fact, this is exactly what I've seen.... 1 v 1 players playing speed poly games.. and sure.. some historical doubles players will play poly games, but again, I don't see this a long term paradigm shift in gameplay... just something to break up the monotony...
I do agree, however, that if you're right and I'm wrong, its hard to say if its a good or bad thing... I tend to think neither really... team games are enjoyed by many... but lets face it, few on here know anyone else personally... and I guess some come on here for some sort of interaction with others, but that doesn't mean team games need to necessarily be a huge part of CC to attract new members or hold on to old ones...

Mr. Changsha sees polymorph as tapping into the team market. This may be true for some casual players.
I see polymorph as tapping into the 1v1 market: which is 50% of the games on the site. If both is the case, then we will see a huge rise in polymorph games, a slight deduction in 1v1 and a slight deduction in team games.

Polymorph will be a quick way to test team play settings and practice your basics. I think that the clan world will still attach prime importance to the Real McCoy.

Mr Changsha wrote:

Shannon Apple wrote:I'm playing a few polymorphic games now, and it's just not the same as playing a team game. Sure, you get to control the entire thing and you don't need to discuss strategy, but it's like team games for loners. I'd miss the jokes and jibes that go on in games with my clan, even if they are sometimes at my expense. That's what makes team games worth it.

I don't think it'll kill team games at all.

I hope serious clan wars avoid polymorph since they aren't really team games. Clans wouldn't have a purpose anymore. Won't happen. We are here to stay!

Clans aren't going anywhere...I completely agree.

I just think clans will have about 10 players in each playing exclusively polymorphic games against other clans doing exactly the same thing.

Is this better? I'm not sure, but I think it is the inevitable consequence of polymorphia.

Nah. If this were true, the whole purpose of clans would be out the window. Imagine say if Kort only ever played polymorphic games. We would have no reason to exist as a clan anymore. You might as well go join a polymorphic tournie. Nah, it's just another game option and the novelty will wear off soon enough. People will settle into whichever type of gameplay they prefer. I am playing some polymorphs now, and yes, they're kinda cool, but the team games allow for different views. 4 pairs of eyes is better than one in a quads game. You can't really take that away. Besides, it's through team games with my clan that I learn more about the game. You can't learn from yourself. You can become a good player, but playing with people who think differently than you can give you new perspectives and can lead to one being a great player, not just a good player. If that makes sense. There's a social aspect to playing team games together, unlike polymorph. Like I say, it's like 1v1, or team games for loners. Haha! I could see a polymorph clan war happening much like the 1v1 clan war, but I cannot see polymorph ever replacing something like the CC4 or CL5 tournaments.

Shannon Apple wrote:

Mr Changsha wrote:

Shannon Apple wrote:I'm playing a few polymorphic games now, and it's just not the same as playing a team game. Sure, you get to control the entire thing and you don't need to discuss strategy, but it's like team games for loners. I'd miss the jokes and jibes that go on in games with my clan, even if they are sometimes at my expense. That's what makes team games worth it.

I don't think it'll kill team games at all.

I hope serious clan wars avoid polymorph since they aren't really team games. Clans wouldn't have a purpose anymore. Won't happen. We are here to stay!

Clans aren't going anywhere...I completely agree.

I just think clans will have about 10 players in each playing exclusively polymorphic games against other clans doing exactly the same thing.

Is this better? I'm not sure, but I think it is the inevitable consequence of polymorphia.

Nah. If this were true, the whole purpose of clans would be out the window. Imagine say if Kort only ever played polymorphic games. We would have no reason to exist as a clan anymore. You might as well go join a polymorphic tournie. Nah, it's just another game option and the novelty will wear off soon enough. People will settle into whichever type of gameplay they prefer. I am playing some polymorphs now, and yes, they're kinda cool, but the team games allow for different views. 4 pairs of eyes is better than one in a quads game. You can't really take that away. Besides, it's through team games with my clan that I learn more about the game. You can't learn from yourself. You can become a good player, but playing with people who think differently than you can give you new perspectives and can lead to one being a great player, not just a good player. If that makes sense. There's a social aspect to playing team games together, unlike polymorph. Like I say, it's like 1v1, or team games for loners. Haha! I could see a polymorph clan war happening much like the 1v1 clan war, but I cannot see polymorph ever replacing something like the CC4 or CL5 tournaments.

I agree with Shannon here. Also I believe that mostly anybody who really knows maps the require a lot of strategy for trips or quads will avoid playing polymorph games due to the ability of 1 person being able to learn and pick up on the maps quicker. I know I got excited for about 15 seconds when I thought I could dominate with settings that I excel in for certain maps under team settings, but later realized that if I made those games polymorph it would take away from my enjoyment of the game, so I've chosen to only toy with the settings as of now.
I also feel that due to one person controlling all turns, the actually quality of the polymorph games is liable to see a decrease in quality, as players are more likely to make mistakes/ overlook things that teammates would regularly catch. but that's just my two sense on the matter

i agree with Shannon. a polymorph game is not a team game and will be restricted in Clan Wars just like old skool 1v1's are.

its a pity this was not in the original suggestion might not of ever got implemented but then again probably would have

Polymorphic games will help players gain a better understanding of team play concepts rather than just consider their own single colour. More players will become adept at strategically deploying/ forting. More will accept that at times the best thing for the team is to simply deploy to a different colour and end move and will be much more aware of which colour needs the troops to attack/ defend/ pressurise.

Players will generally improve their games by playing polymorphic. Of course that means that those with nothing left to learn will have a lot of stronger competition coming at them.

So, who wants a poly war?

Shannon Apple wrote:

Mr Changsha wrote:

Shannon Apple wrote:I'm playing a few polymorphic games now, and it's just not the same as playing a team game. Sure, you get to control the entire thing and you don't need to discuss strategy, but it's like team games for loners. I'd miss the jokes and jibes that go on in games with my clan, even if they are sometimes at my expense. That's what makes team games worth it.

I don't think it'll kill team games at all.

I hope serious clan wars avoid polymorph since they aren't really team games. Clans wouldn't have a purpose anymore. Won't happen. We are here to stay!

Clans aren't going anywhere...I completely agree.

I just think clans will have about 10 players in each playing exclusively polymorphic games against other clans doing exactly the same thing.

Is this better? I'm not sure, but I think it is the inevitable consequence of polymorphia.

Nah. If this were true, the whole purpose of clans would be out the window. Imagine say if Kort only ever played polymorphic games. We would have no reason to exist as a clan anymore. You might as well go join a polymorphic tournie. Nah, it's just another game option and the novelty will wear off soon enough. People will settle into whichever type of gameplay they prefer. I am playing some polymorphs now, and yes, they're kinda cool, but the team games allow for different views. 4 pairs of eyes is better than one in a quads game. You can't really take that away. Besides, it's through team games with my clan that I learn more about the game. You can't learn from yourself. You can become a good player, but playing with people who think differently than you can give you new perspectives and can lead to one being a great player, not just a good player. If that makes sense. There's a social aspect to playing team games together, unlike polymorph. Like I say, it's like 1v1, or team games for loners. Haha! I could see a polymorph clan war happening much like the 1v1 clan war, but I cannot see polymorph ever replacing something like the CC4 or CL5 tournaments.

You know I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I also love playing with my team, I love asking for input and then writing out my orders. It is hugely enjoyable.

However, I think you have to consider this not from the perspective of a player in a strong team, but rather consider the position of the leader of a strong team. Every good clan has them, they are the strongest players in the clan - generally - and those players will be, if they are not already doing it, trying out polymorphic trips and quads. Now I actually hope I'm wrong on this, but I strongly suspect that such players will quickly come to the conclusion that polymorphic gaming is better for them.

Now this would mean that those in clans now who don't lead games but are part of the team and follow orders - generally - are going to be surplus to requirements.

Being one of those 'leader-types' myself, I know just what the temptation will be. At what I play do I strictly need a team around me? I like to have one no doubt, but we have to consider that in all my years here I have had no choice but to have a team if I wanted to play trips. If this setting had been available five years ago would I have played team games? I'm not sure about that... So for those of us who lead teams, this new setting is going to change everything. Right now if I play 8 clan games I have to write orders for 8 games, follow everyone's moves etc. If clans play on a polymorphic basis I don't have to do that anymore.

So I am interested in the idea that the new setting will make my gaming easier, but might actually take away some of the enjoyment of it..that of winning as a group and sharing in a victory.

So if you don't lead team games these new settings wouldn't be all that attractive to you. But if you do, then I would think they are massively attractive and that this must impact on clans.

Vid_FISO wrote:Polymorphic games will help players gain a better understanding of team play concepts rather than just consider their own single colour. More players will become adept at strategically deploying/ forting. More will accept that at times the best thing for the team is to simply deploy to a different colour and end move and will be much more aware of which colour needs the troops to attack/ defend/ pressurise.

Players will generally improve their games by playing polymorphic. Of course that means that those with nothing left to learn will have a lot of stronger competition coming at them.

So, who wants a poly war?

Yes, I completely agree with this. The days of the low-ranked or unknown joining with a random team to play against an established team (and then getting whooped) are surely over..or will be soon. Such players will join or set up polymorphic games. This of course means that a lot of our high-ranked team players are going to lose a lot of their 'base' income. As someone who has always avoided this kind of behavior I have to say I applaud this new setting on that basis.

And yes, I think a lot of players are going to learn how to play trips and quads better. The best players consider all the armies on the board (their own colour being just a part). Everyone playing polymorphic games will have to look at the board as one big army against another..just as I do now when I play team games.

greenoaks wrote:i agree with Shannon. a polymorph game is not a team game and will be restricted in Clan Wars just like old skool 1v1's are.

But what happens if enough current team game players (I think leader-types are most key here) decide they prefer playing a polymorphic game? I detested 1vs1, but I am probably going to love the new setting. If most team leaders are generally setting up casual polymorphic games then it won't be long before they are demanding their inclusion in clan wars, and once that happens, clans as we know it are going to change completely.

You just convinced me to buy premium.