Conquer Club

How come in a terminator game, if someone dead beats and does not get eliminated the winner does not get their points

For example in game #445877 i eliminated hotspur and he was the last one left, but i had not eliminated any of the dead beats. How come i dont get their points. Take a look at that game and see. Those deadbeats deserve to lose their points, especially in a sequential game.

aceage wrote:How come in a terminator game, if someone dead beats and does not get eliminated the winner does not get their points

For example in game #445877 i eliminated hotspur and he was the last one left, but i had not eliminated any of the dead beats. How come i dont get their points. Take a look at that game and see. Those deadbeats deserve to lose their points, especially in a sequential game.

Interesting question. I agree with you that deadbeats deserve to lose their points, but in terminator you only get points if you eliminate someone. If someone deadbeats and you don't eliminate him why should you get his points? You would be getting the points of someone who you didn't eliminate.

I guess if you really wanted their points you would have to keep alive at least one player while you eliminated the deadbeats yourself. Or conversely, concentrate on eliminating the deadbeats before eliminating your live opponents.

Anyway, that's the way terminator currently works. I do like your idea of punishing the deadbeat by making him lose points though. The question would be who, if anyone, should benefit from his points. You can make an argument that the last player alive should have to continue the game until all the opponents are eliminated (alive and dead). Or alternatively, you could just have the deadbeat lose the points he would have lost to the last player automatically when there is only one player left in the game. Or you could even have the deadbeat player lose the points but don't give them to anyone since no one really eliminated him. But all these proposals are suggestions to change the way the terminator game currently works.

well the way i see it is that even though i eliminated the last remaining player, i should still be able to keep going and eliminate them too.

Eliminate the deadbeat first and you will get their points.

Beaker is correct, but i've got your back on this one, aceage. the rules reward deadbeating and i've raised the issue before, so don't hold your breath on it being changed.

BeakerWMA wrote:Eliminate the deadbeat first and you will get their points.

The problem with that is that after i eliminate the deadbeat, i wont have enough armies to take out the last remaining player.

good terminator players take risks.
If you wish to get the deadbeaters points, simply take your last remaining opponent down to 1 army, on 1 territory.
After this, fort up around him, then you will be able to eliminate players, while keeping your last remaining opponent from getting a card.
Thus getting all available points.

Cheers, and good luck in the future!
John

I just had the same exact thing happen to me, and it was 3 players who deadbeated!!! I went back and read the rules, and I understand now how it works. However, it just seems like a bad idea for lots of reasons, the largest being that if you deadbeat in a terminator game, no harm befalls you! Along with the suggestions above, I'd be most content with being allowed to continue your turn, or at least finish the turn you're on. In the game I was in, I eliminated a player with three cards and I also had three. Had that round continued, I would have been able to turn in my cards and take a shot at the three other deadbeaters.

Regardless of the solution, there needs to be something done that at least takes points away from the deadbeaters.

The 60-ish points I could've gotten will be sorely missed. And by the way, a "good" terminator player may or may not have the luxury of surrounding his opponent, especially since his opponent might have cards to turn in, and while you're trying to surround him he may break out and nab those points.

I'd at least like to hear from a moderator on why it's set up that way.


P.S. my game was 430559[/i]

I've done it a couple times.

One game I was low man and was probably going to get knocked out next turn. So figuring points are points I setup and at least got something.

Another I had an opportunity as everyone else were busy fighting each other, so I got some easy extra points that way and came out none the worse for wear.

But why should the strongest player be punished for doing the smart thing stratigically by eliminating an actual opponent versus one taht has abondoned his post? And why shouldn't he be allowed to continue on eliminating people? I just don't see the reasoning for the rule.

Why must it be a punishment? it is not - it is just a new wrinkle in a good game - can you eliminate the deadbeats before the real player, or do you need to take him out and lose those other points. Stratigy - thinking very hard to do the best move at that time

I believe it must be a punishment because you shouldn't be allowed to deadbeat your way out of a game and lose nothing for it. And besides that, if you think about it, the strongest player would be able to terminate anyone left anyhow, so why not give him the points from the deadbeaters?

im in a 6 player terminator game and 4 players are about to be deadbeats (3 already have)

Maybe a good change will be that after you kill the last live opponent, that the game isn't ended if there are still deadbeat armies on the map, but that you get having turns to eliminate the deadbeat still, so deadbeating will still get you to lose points.

wacicha wrote:Why must it be a punishment? it is not - it is just a new wrinkle in a good game - can you eliminate the deadbeats before the real player, or do you need to take him out and lose those other points. Stratigy - thinking very hard to do the best move at that time

the current rule punishes active players and rewards deadbeats. a deadbeat that sits around but is not eliminated does not lose points, a player that fights to the end but is eliminated loses points.

imho, it is a major flaw in a great game.

longboreder wrote:

wacicha wrote:Why must it be a punishment? it is not - it is just a new wrinkle in a good game - can you eliminate the deadbeats before the real player, or do you need to take him out and lose those other points. Stratigy - thinking very hard to do the best move at that time

the current rule punishes active players and rewards deadbeats. a deadbeat that sits around but is not eliminated does not lose points, a player that fights to the end but is eliminated loses points.

imho, it is a major flaw in a great game.

Better than it was before, though. It gives you the chance to actually eliminate them instead of their armies going to neutral like it was before.

Forza AZ wrote:Maybe a good change will be that after you kill the last live opponent, that the game isn't ended if there are still deadbeat armies on the map, but that you get having turns to eliminate the deadbeat still, so deadbeating will still get you to lose points.

I do very much like this plan...

I have a question regarding terminators. I am currently playing one on the Ireland map. 5 people total, 2 have deadbeat. If I take them out, do I get their points regardless, or do I have to also WIN the game? Sorry for the extremely noobish question, but if I will get points for just eliminating people I'm going to go finish off one of the deadbeats.

YOu have to take them out. If you do not take them out then you will not get their points and they will not lose any points.

aceage wrote:YOu have to take them out. If you do not take them out then you will not get their points and they will not lose any points.

That's not at all what I asked. I know you have to take the person out to get that person's points. My question was "do I have to ALSO win the game to get the points from the people I eliminated?"

rsuttles58 wrote:

aceage wrote:YOu have to take them out. If you do not take them out then you will not get their points and they will not lose any points.

That's not at all what I asked. I know you have to take the person out to get that person's points. My question was "do I have to ALSO win the game to get the points from the people I eliminated?"

NO
even if you lose, you still get the points you gained from each kill, you just lose a few to whoever killed you.

wcaclimbing wrote:

rsuttles58 wrote:

aceage wrote:YOu have to take them out. If you do not take them out then you will not get their points and they will not lose any points.

That's not at all what I asked. I know you have to take the person out to get that person's points. My question was "do I have to ALSO win the game to get the points from the people I eliminated?"

NO
even if you lose, you still get the points you gained from each kill, you just lose a few to whoever killed you.

Wow. ok. (Strategy revised). Time to wipe out deadbeats!

pancakemix wrote:

longboreder wrote:

wacicha wrote:Why must it be a punishment? it is not - it is just a new wrinkle in a good game - can you eliminate the deadbeats before the real player, or do you need to take him out and lose those other points. Stratigy - thinking very hard to do the best move at that time

the current rule punishes active players and rewards deadbeats. a deadbeat that sits around but is not eliminated does not lose points, a player that fights to the end but is eliminated loses points.

imho, it is a major flaw in a great game.

Better than it was before, though. It gives you the chance to actually eliminate them instead of their armies going to neutral like it was before.

thank you, that was my suggestion to keep their points in the game by keeping them the same color but with no armies to add.

i figured with the upgrade that either:

-play would continue until the board is one color

or

-the last active player would get the DB's points

The game should be that the only player who joins a terminator game and does lose points is the winner of the game, if you join a game and do not win you should lose points. Why should you lose a game, but by deadbeatting you lose no points? Absurd.

I suggest that if deadbeats who are eliminated in active games lost 1.5x or 2x points to the winner, and losers by default lost the usual amount, that there would be way less deadbeats in terminator games.

longboreder wrote:

pancakemix wrote:

longboreder wrote:

wacicha wrote:Why must it be a punishment? it is not - it is just a new wrinkle in a good game - can you eliminate the deadbeats before the real player, or do you need to take him out and lose those other points. Stratigy - thinking very hard to do the best move at that time

the current rule punishes active players and rewards deadbeats. a deadbeat that sits around but is not eliminated does not lose points, a player that fights to the end but is eliminated loses points.

imho, it is a major flaw in a great game.

Better than it was before, though. It gives you the chance to actually eliminate them instead of their armies going to neutral like it was before.

thank you, that was my suggestion to keep their points in the game by keeping them the same color but with no armies to add.

i figured with the upgrade that either:

-play would continue until the board is one color

or

-the last active player would get the DB's points

The game should be that the only player who joins a terminator game and does lose points is the winner of the game, if you join a game and do not win you should lose points. Why should you lose a game, but by deadbeatting you lose no points? Absurd.

I suggest that if deadbeats who are eliminated in active games lost 1.5x or 2x points to the winner, and losers by default lost the usual amount, that there would be way less deadbeats in terminator games.

Having the deadbeat lose more than the normal amount of points would indeed result in fewer deadbeats in terminator games. Actually, the same would be true in all games. In general you get less of the behavior you punish and more of the behavior you reward.

Your proposal sounds good to me and I suspect good to anyone who feels there are too many deadbeats currently in games at CC.

Bump, as the matter was never clarified by a higher-up as to WHY the system is the way that it is (i.e. broken).