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Are the maps getting too complicated?

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Are the maps getting too complicated?

Yes, absolutely
5
13%
Yes, with some exceptions
1
3%
I don't know
1
3%
No, with some exceptions
7
18%
Not at all
19
48%
Kittens are cute
7
18%
 
Total votes : 40

Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby IcePack on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:32 pm

That isn’t the Stalingrad map but ok...
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Shannon Apple on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:39 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:The site has over 250 maps and many of them have the exact same settings, so there are plenty for beginners to play. It's nice to see new concepts popping up as it adds a layer of difficulty for more advanced players. The game is constantly evolving and that's a positive thing.


I don't want to see the site evolve into a point where the top tier players and new members compete on entirely different sets of maps and settings. To me, that would mean a destruction of the sense of community here. I don't mind new ideas, not at all, but I would like to see the older ideas implemented in new and inventive ways more, and for new maps to evolve from simpler maps rather than to add more complexity to already complex newer maps.

The site evolves in different ways, and not all of them are positive. One of the less positive ways is that members of the community put less input into the mapmaking forums, for example, than they used to. There should be more threads like this if it helps involve the community in mapmaking.


Yes, but you don't play competitively. (BTW Sym, I wasn't trolling, I was dead serious with my above post. Nothing about my post could even be interpreted as trolling. Just saying).

My point is that those who do play competitively, especially clans, will welcome maps that have a little more to them than the standard. I'm not saying that these two maps are particularly difficult, or really all that different from what's already out there, but they do require a little learning and strategy. Actually Stalingrad (that's not it above) and Waterloo which have similar difficulty levels to these two are some of my favourite maps to play. I like Hive too, which is a standard map, albeit a large one.

The reason less people respond to this area of the forum is the trolling and meanspiritedness. I found in earlier years that people could be quite cruel in this area of the forum and especially cruel to mapmakers.

Clans are the heart of the community to be honest. That's where friends are made and the reason a lot of people come back to CC eventually. Having maps that challenge clans and force people to learn new strategies is a good thing. People who don't enjoy difficult maps won't play them.

An argument could be made for categorising maps so that players can more easily find maps that match their skill level.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:49 pm

IcePack wrote:That isn’t the Stalingrad map but ok...


Good catch:

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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby riskllama on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:06 am

sgrad is glorious map.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby HitRed on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:57 am

A quick training video on Stalingrad would help new players.

Also played Alaska for the first time this week. Totally clueless to target the base camps, ports, trails, terr. bonus or ships first. After 2 games still not sure. Maybe a short (AND LOCKED) BEST PRACTICES blog for each map would be nice.

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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Donelladan on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:32 am

They are strategy guides for some maps here :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80036

Stalingrad doesnt have one yet, but anyone willing to write the guide can contact me, and I'll help you with it. There is even credits award for anyone writing a good guide.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Robespierre__ on Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:22 pm

Symmetry wrote:
IcePack wrote:That isn’t the Stalingrad map but ok...


Good catch:

Image



I appreciate your contribution and thoughtful post. It would feel better were you not freemium. I don't think $35 USD (or whatever it is) is too much to ask to be a member of this community. Shows you are here to help it last.

My. $02

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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby .SCuD. on Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:17 pm

Robespierre__ wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
IcePack wrote:That isn’t the Stalingrad map but ok...


Good catch:

Image



I appreciate your contribution and thoughtful post. It would feel better were you not freemium. I don't think $35 USD (or whatever it is) is too much to ask to be a member of this community. Shows you are here to help it last.

My. $02

Robes


Another 1749 of those and you have your $35!
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:56 am

This troll out here proving my point about why he shouldn't be commenting on maps if he thinks Stalingrad is that simple.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:18 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:This troll out here proving my point about why he shouldn't be commenting on maps if he thinks Stalingrad is that simple.


Do you really want to push this?
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby HitRed on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:47 pm

Anyone can have insight.

You don't have to be an author to have an opinion on a book. Be a chef to be a food critic. Or premium to discuss Elements. I agree this site is worth supporting and hopefully he will do so. If/when Elements goes Beta I will personally invite Sym. Maybe he might consider playing again.

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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:18 pm

HitRed wrote:Anyone can have insight.

You don't have to be an author to have an opinion on a book. Be a chef to be a food critic. Or premium to discuss Elements. I agree this site is worth supporting and hopefully he will do so. If/when Elements goes Beta I will personally invite Sym. Maybe he might consider playing again.

HitRed


Thanks HR, both for the comment and the offer.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Ltrain on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:01 pm

There are a few that I would say are obnoxiously confusing just based on the explaination given.

But if you have been around long enough you crave learning new maps, and as long as the rules of war are agreed upon, I think having some really confusing maps hanging out there is a good thing.

I have played Krazy Kingdoms a bunch and no, the text on the map does not prepare you for what is in store.

Why not have new maps that are completely blacked out for tiebreakers instead of the classic map tiebreaker. With some chutes and ladders shit thrown in there haha!

Seriously though, I have always thought a hexagon fog map similar to Chinese checkers would be a better tiebreaker than the classic map.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby BrutalBob on Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:01 am

HitRed wrote:Anyone can have insight.

You don't have to be an author to have an opinion on a book. Be a chef to be a food critic. Or premium to discuss Elements. I agree this site is worth supporting and hopefully he will do so. If/when Elements goes Beta I will personally invite Sym. Maybe he might consider playing again.

HitRed


This makes sense in as much as you are saying, you dont have to be a map maker to comment on a map, but in order to have an opinion on a book, you must at least read
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:17 am

BrutalBob wrote:
HitRed wrote:Anyone can have insight.

You don't have to be an author to have an opinion on a book. Be a chef to be a food critic. Or premium to discuss Elements. I agree this site is worth supporting and hopefully he will do so. If/when Elements goes Beta I will personally invite Sym. Maybe he might consider playing again.

HitRed


This makes sense in as much as you are saying, you dont have to be a map maker to comment on a map, but in order to have an opinion on a book, you must at least read


Not really true, BrutalB.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby BrutalBob on Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:11 pm

Symmetry wrote:
BrutalBob wrote:
HitRed wrote:Anyone can have insight.

You don't have to be an author to have an opinion on a book. Be a chef to be a food critic. Or premium to discuss Elements. I agree this site is worth supporting and hopefully he will do so. If/when Elements goes Beta I will personally invite Sym. Maybe he might consider playing again.

HitRed


This makes sense in as much as you are saying, you dont have to be a map maker to comment on a map, but in order to have an opinion on a book, you must at least read


Not really true, BrutalB.


Umm, yes it is SymT.

Well I guess you could say 'The book is too complicated because I cant read' and that is an insight. But its not a particularly informed one.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:05 am

BrutalBob wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BrutalBob wrote:
HitRed wrote:Anyone can have insight.

You don't have to be an author to have an opinion on a book. Be a chef to be a food critic. Or premium to discuss Elements. I agree this site is worth supporting and hopefully he will do so. If/when Elements goes Beta I will personally invite Sym. Maybe he might consider playing again.

HitRed


This makes sense in as much as you are saying, you dont have to be a map maker to comment on a map, but in order to have an opinion on a book, you must at least read


Not really true, BrutalB.


Umm, yes it is SymT.

Well I guess you could say 'The book is too complicated because I cant read' and that is an insight. But its not a particularly informed one.


Kid, you bungled your argument a while ago. I'll throw you a bone though-

List your pros and cons for the proposed maps- just what you like about them and what you think is weak and could be improved.

That's your chance to show that you're more "informed", but I've got to be honest, I think you'll mess up, back out and troll again.

You up to the challenge?
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby BrutalBob on Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:11 am

Symmetry wrote:
BrutalBob wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BrutalBob wrote:
HitRed wrote:Anyone can have insight.

You don't have to be an author to have an opinion on a book. Be a chef to be a food critic. Or premium to discuss Elements. I agree this site is worth supporting and hopefully he will do so. If/when Elements goes Beta I will personally invite Sym. Maybe he might consider playing again.

HitRed


This makes sense in as much as you are saying, you dont have to be a map maker to comment on a map, but in order to have an opinion on a book, you must at least read


Not really true, BrutalB.


Umm, yes it is SymT.

Well I guess you could say 'The book is too complicated because I cant read' and that is an insight. But its not a particularly informed one.


Kid, you bungled your argument a while ago. I'll throw you a bone though-


Actually Sym you used the fact that i messed up the quoting to completely ignore the point I was making. Thats not having a constructive debate, that's gamesmanship to win an argument. Much like using the word "Kid", or saying its not really true without giving any reason.

Symmetry wrote:List your pros and cons for the proposed maps- just what you like about them and what you think is weak and could be improved.

That's your chance to show that you're more "informed", but I've got to be honest, I think you'll mess up, back out and troll again.


The question is not whether the two examples you show are good maps or whether I like them and not. In fact its not really about two specific maps. The question you posed was whether there were some maps that were too complicated. As for trolling, I was simply pointing out that the analogy between mapmaker/ map critic, author/ book reviewer and chef/ food critic did not really stack up if the map critic did not play the game. I could be wrong, there could be a great many food critics that do not eat or book reviewers that don't read. I haven't done any research, it was just an assumption.

As I said, it was more about the analogy, This is not to say you can't offer valid feedback on a map. Of course you can. Similar to the anorexic food critic, that says "It smells nice and it's well presented" or the dyslexic book reviewer that is impressed with the binding or the ... pah I cant be bothered. ou get the idea
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby HitRed on Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:42 pm

All illiterate non eating food critics are allowed to post on the maps. O:)

HitRed

You don't have to be a chef to be a food critic.
You do yet have to be an author to commit on a book
You don't have to be a game player/premium (like Symm) to commit on a map.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:52 pm

BrutalBob wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BrutalBob wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BrutalBob wrote:
HitRed wrote:Anyone can have insight.

You don't have to be an author to have an opinion on a book. Be a chef to be a food critic. Or premium to discuss Elements. I agree this site is worth supporting and hopefully he will do so. If/when Elements goes Beta I will personally invite Sym. Maybe he might consider playing again.

HitRed


This makes sense in as much as you are saying, you dont have to be a map maker to comment on a map, but in order to have an opinion on a book, you must at least read


Not really true, BrutalB.


Umm, yes it is SymT.

Well I guess you could say 'The book is too complicated because I cant read' and that is an insight. But its not a particularly informed one.


Kid, you bungled your argument a while ago. I'll throw you a bone though-


Actually Sym you used the fact that i messed up the quoting to completely ignore the point I was making. Thats not having a constructive debate, that's gamesmanship to win an argument. Much like using the word "Kid", or saying its not really true without giving any reason.

Symmetry wrote:List your pros and cons for the proposed maps- just what you like about them and what you think is weak and could be improved.

That's your chance to show that you're more "informed", but I've got to be honest, I think you'll mess up, back out and troll again.


The question is not whether the two examples you show are good maps or whether I like them and not. In fact its not really about two specific maps. The question you posed was whether there were some maps that were too complicated. As for trolling, I was simply pointing out that the analogy between mapmaker/ map critic, author/ book reviewer and chef/ food critic did not really stack up if the map critic did not play the game. I could be wrong, there could be a great many food critics that do not eat or book reviewers that don't read. I haven't done any research, it was just an assumption.

As I said, it was more about the analogy, This is not to say you can't offer valid feedback on a map. Of course you can. Similar to the anorexic food critic, that says "It smells nice and it's well presented" or the dyslexic book reviewer that is impressed with the binding or the ... pah I cant be bothered. ou get the idea


Do you actually have anything relevant to say? Long rambling irrelevant posts attempting to justify your other irrelevant posts don't count.

I'm actually very open to seeing this conversation move forward, and it's not as if you don't have the opportunity to do so.

I get that you want to steer the conversation in favour of personal attacks against the OP (me), but the thread has moved on.

P.S.- Way to go on being a dick about anorexia and dyslexia though, do try and think through your trolling next time.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:59 pm

HitRed wrote:All illiterate non eating food critics are allowed to post on the maps. O:)

HitRed

You don't have to be a chef to be a food critic.
You do yet have to be an author to commit on a book
You don't have to be a game player/premium (like Symm) to commit on a map.


Agreed, HR, although you should be wary of equating BB's attacks on dyslexic people with illiteracy, likewise with the nasty attack on people with anorexia.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby BrutalBob on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:50 am

ok, back on track. The answer is no
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:43 am

BrutalBob wrote:ok, back on track. The answer is no


Thanks BB, always a pleasure to hear from you.
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am
Medals: 4
Standard Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)

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