Conquer Club

Okay, okay.... I KNOW i'm going to get all kinds of flack from a lot of people for this one.... mostly from all of the "it really is just random dice" crowd, with the usual "suck it up and get over it" attitude, and the added "you choose to forget about your own lucky dice rolls" and "don't be a sore loser".

But god damn -- am I the only one that has run into games where the law of averages seem to have take a running leap off the nearest bridge?? Games where I attacked with 8 against 2, and lost, and they attacked with 12 against 18, and not only win, but have 4 left over??? This is just beyond luck people, especially when it happens over and over again in the same game! No, I am NOT conveniently forgetting any times that I have had phenomenal dice. I'm talking about games where I cannot take a single country or even reduce their force by 1 army, and they just continually roll over and roll over and slaughter me and my partner, to no seeming end! It just happens way to repeatedly! It's NOT us being sore losers, it's NOT their ocassional lucky dice, versus our crappy dice, evenly spread out in one game or even over the course of a few games. It's CERTAIN GAMES with CERTAIN players.

And yes, I know the first reaction from a lot of people that hear the losing team complain of cheaters or crappy dice to defend their loss, is to accuse us of sour grapes. But you'd just really have to look at these games! I've heard "dice hacking" mentioned by other people in several places on this site. And I really never wanted to believe it could be true. But now I'm wondering. The only 2 plausible explanations for this kind of crap are either 1) dice hacking or 2) the system gives favorable dice to higher ranking members.

I guess I'll have to read through all of the posts on here to see if the administration has ever addressed this or taken a stance on it. But I've got to tell you, I think it's worth their looking into and making some sort of statement about it.

I'm NOT a loser. I have a decent rank with a decent win ratio. I just don't see how some people can go through the ranks so quickly with hardly any loses, and then by the time they're up at my rank or higher, and me and my partner decide to take them on, then we have these games where we hardly ever win any attacks, and always lose all defenses, and they never lose a single attack, and try some bullshit like 12 on 18, and it works, and they have 4 left over!

It really is NOT random and ocassional. We've played several people more than once, where it's EVERY SINGLE GAME with them. I think that would make any reasonable person suspicious, and leave them wondering what the f*ck?

By the way, the partner I mentioned is lutra, and he feels exactly the same way I do. Except lutra takes exception to my foul language, and encouraged me to leave it out. But i'm so spitting mad right now, that I had to have at least one "f*ck" in there - because WHAT THE f*ck?? He did actually clean this up quite a bit before I posted though - to his credit.

Translation:

blah blah
I am a sore loser and cant take the dice

Suck it up cupcake.

Spoken truly like one of "them" ... and don't get me wrong, we figure we're probably going to get a lot more of the same.

The difference is you have nothing but a sour attitude to back you up, and we can give you game logs to look at to back up our point of view.

Shishy wrote:Spoken truly like one of "them" ... and don't get me wrong, we figure we're probably going to get a lot more of the same.

The difference is you have nothing but a sour attitude to back you up, and we can give you game logs to look at to back up our point of view.

Do you have a little kitten in your pocket? Or are you just another multi who exposed himself

misterman10 wrote:Translation:

blah blah
I am a sore loser and cant take the dice

Suck it up cupcake.

Don't be an asshole.

Hey man, it happens... Just remember this moment when you're the guy in a different game winning the 12 vs 18

The only 2 plausible explanations for this kind of crap are either 1) dice hacking or 2) the system gives favorable dice to higher ranking members.

1) you evidently dont know anything about hacking
2) how does the system differentiate between players when all the dice generations come from the same place on an external site?


lame

misterman10 wrote:

Shishy wrote:Spoken truly like one of "them" ... and don't get me wrong, we figure we're probably going to get a lot more of the same.

The difference is you have nothing but a sour attitude to back you up, and we can give you game logs to look at to back up our point of view.

Do you have a little kitten in your pocket? Or are you just another multi who exposed himself

Read his post, dumbass. He's playing doubles.

hecter wrote:

misterman10 wrote:

Shishy wrote:Spoken truly like one of "them" ... and don't get me wrong, we figure we're probably going to get a lot more of the same.

The difference is you have nothing but a sour attitude to back you up, and we can give you game logs to look at to back up our point of view.

Do you have a little kitten in your pocket? Or are you just another multi who exposed himself

Read his post, dumbass. He's playing doubles.

Hmmm, how about no.

A) to Misterman10 - read the whole post you illiterate moron, although it actually posted from my account, I posted WITH my partner - Lutra, who gave his full backing to the post, hence the "we"

B) to hecter, thanks for telling misterman10 what an asshole he is - appreciate that. But secondly, we wouldn't attack 18 armies with 12, because it's stupid! And no one should even hope to win that. Maybe as a last-ditch desperation move when the game is clearly lost, but that's not what we're talking about. In the particular game where that happend, it was the SECOND dice roll for that guy - Round 2, and he just completely annihilated our entire force! Game over, after 2 dice rolls. Why would anyone even try that unless they KNEW they couldn't lose?

Lutra wrote:A) to Misterman10 - read the whole post you illiterate moron, although it actually posted from my account, I posted WITH my partner - Lutra, who gave his full backing to the post, hence the "we"

B) to hecter, thanks for telling misterman10 what an asshole he is - appreciate that. But secondly, we wouldn't attack 18 armies with 12, because it's stupid! And no one should even hope to win that. Maybe as a last-ditch desperation move when the game is clearly lost, but that's not what we're talking about. In the particular game where that happend, it was the SECOND dice roll for that guy - Round 2, and he just completely annihilated our entire force! Game over, after 2 dice rolls. Why would anyone even try that unless they KNEW they couldn't lose?

1. Maybe he didn't use auto attack.
2. He was feelin' lucky!

Lutra wrote:A) to Misterman10 - read the whole post you illiterate moron, although it actually posted from my account, I posted WITH my partner - Lutra, who gave his full backing to the post, hence the "we"

Read a 2000 word post showing how much you two whine and how you complain "teh dice iz so mean"

Yeah, I'll pass.

Lutra wrote:A) to Misterman10 - read the whole post you illiterate moron, although it actually posted from my account, I posted WITH my partner - Lutra, who gave his full backing to the post, hence the "we"

Now I'm confused... you are saying the earlier posts were made with your account but with your partner Lutra... only, you posted that reply as Lutra? Did you forget to switch accounts before replying?

Shishy wrote:Okay, okay.... I KNOW i'm going to get all kinds of flack from a lot of people for this one.... mostly from all of the "it really is just random dice" crowd, with the usual "suck it up and get over it" attitude, and the added "you choose to forget about your own lucky dice rolls" and "don't be a sore loser".

But god damn -- am I the only one that has run into games where the law of averages seem to have take a running leap off the nearest bridge?? Games where I attacked with 8 against 2, and lost, and they attacked with 12 against 18, and not only win, but have 4 left over??? This is just beyond luck people, especially when it happens over and over again in the same game! No, I am NOT conveniently forgetting any times that I have had phenomenal dice. I'm talking about games where I cannot take a single country or even reduce their force by 1 army, and they just continually roll over and roll over and slaughter me and my partner, to no seeming end! It just happens way to repeatedly! It's NOT us being sore losers, it's NOT their ocassional lucky dice, versus our crappy dice, evenly spread out in one game or even over the course of a few games. It's CERTAIN GAMES with CERTAIN players.

And yes, I know the first reaction from a lot of people that hear the losing team complain of cheaters or crappy dice to defend their loss, is to accuse us of sour grapes. But you'd just really have to look at these games! I've heard "dice hacking" mentioned by other people in several places on this site. And I really never wanted to believe it could be true. But now I'm wondering. The only 2 plausible explanations for this kind of crap are either 1) dice hacking or 2) the system gives favorable dice to higher ranking members.

I guess I'll have to read through all of the posts on here to see if the administration has ever addressed this or taken a stance on it. But I've got to tell you, I think it's worth their looking into and making some sort of statement about it.

I'm NOT a loser. I have a decent rank with a decent win ratio. I just don't see how some people can go through the ranks so quickly with hardly any loses, and then by the time they're up at my rank or higher, and me and my partner decide to take them on, then we have these games where we hardly ever win any attacks, and always lose all defenses, and they never lose a single attack, and try some bullshit like 12 on 18, and it works, and they have 4 left over!

It really is NOT random and ocassional. We've played several people more than once, where it's EVERY SINGLE GAME with them. I think that would make any reasonable person suspicious, and leave them wondering what the f*ck?

By the way, the partner I mentioned is lutra, and he feels exactly the same way I do. Except lutra takes exception to my foul language, and encouraged me to leave it out. But i'm so spitting mad right now, that I had to have at least one "f*ck" in there - because WHAT THE f*ck?? He did actually clean this up quite a bit before I posted though - to his credit.

hushhhhh you cazy cricket.... you are wrong...

misterman10 wrote:

Shishy wrote:Spoken truly like one of "them" ... and don't get me wrong, we figure we're probably going to get a lot more of the same.

The difference is you have nothing but a sour attitude to back you up, and we can give you game logs to look at to back up our point of view.

Do you have a little kitten in your pocket? Or are you just another multi who exposed himself

i'm not in his pocket!

Ishiro wrote:

Lutra wrote:A) to Misterman10 - read the whole post you illiterate moron, although it actually posted from my account, I posted WITH my partner - Lutra, who gave his full backing to the post, hence the "we"

Now I'm confused... you are saying the earlier posts were made with your account but with your partner Lutra... only, you posted that reply as Lutra? Did you forget to switch accounts before replying?

can you say multis?

s.xkitten wrote:i'm not in his pocket!

because your in Caleb's

ok, enough of the spamming of the poor person(s) thread. What was I saying about playing nice outside of the flame wars board? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Anyhoo, to the op: The dice would be very hard to hack I think simply because of the way they work....If you could PM me some of the game numbers and people I'll take a look into it though

Have a good one,
Twill

First of all if you are playing doubles people will attack 12 on 18 because if they don't they know that they 18 will attack their 12 on the next turn and they are probably going to kill more troops if they attack first. In single they may do it not intending to take the territory but just to weaken it and gotten good roles.

Second, how often do you play RISK in real life. You know with actual little plastic pieces and those six sided things called dice. If you have played that a bunch you will know that good and bad runs happen just as much in that game as in this online game similar but not connected in any way to RISK.
For example the last game I played with a friend of mine he lost a 13 on 3 and the dice were not rigged in any way shape or form.

Third I would like to ask if you have any idea whatsoever how the dice are generated. If not check it out and do some more research in to what random means.

Misterman01 wrote:

can you say multis?

Clearly the sarcasm of having Lutra reply from Shishy's point of view went straight over this goob's head!

Oh and then there's this one:

Misterman01 wrote:

Read a 2000 word post showing how much you two whine and how you complain "teh dice iz so mean"

Yeah, I'll pass.

Apparently, you WON'T pass, as you seem to have nothing else better to do than to continually reply to this post with your complete and utter drivel. As stated earlier, nothing to back you up!

And frankly, I went out of my way in the original posting to make it known that we are NOT whining. ANY reasonable person faced with what we have experienced would wonder what the hell is going on. As I knew would happen, most of you are assuming we're whining about a FEW lousy dice runs, paired with the opponent's phenomenal dice. That is NOT WHAT WE'RE SAYING. We're talking about CERTAIN GAMES with CERTAIN PEOPLE, where that's ALL that happens the ENTIRE game, EVERY game. And frankly, Misterman01, since you seem to be the most adamant about opposing us in our point of view, you're probably one of the "golden ones".

first: i find it hard that anyone who would go through the trouble to hack, not this site but likely the site where the numbers come from, would allow themselves to lose any armies, even to make it look real. people are too greedy

secondly frood has a good point with the weakening thing. you have a considerabe advantage even if you are outnumbered, you get a third die for attacking.

doesnt everybody say its better to defend, same numbers - you win

and froods right, people will attack 12 on 18 because if they don't they know that 18 will attack their 12 on the next turn, I would do this too,
but its NOT a fact they gonna kill more troops if they attack first, its all about the dice
and yes, in single they may do it not intending to take the territory but just to weaken it and gotten good roles.

having an xtra die gives you a greater advantage than winning ties

pathetic

Okay, I think it is just silly to complain about the dice being fixed...
Less than 2% of players are benefiting from a dice patch, and the benefit is much smaller than most people realize. Some of you already know how difficult the patch is to manipulate the color of cards, but for those who haven't tried it, the dice patch is much much harder and only adds 1 to less than 40% of the dice.

Adding 1 to less than 40% of the dice does NOT make you invincible, you will still lose LOTS of rolls, it is clearly only a SMALL advantage, about equivalent to the advantage of using greasemoney... so it's just plain silly to think there is some sort-of "golden" dice club dominating and controlling the dice. Lucky streaks and unlucky streaks remain the key element here.

Most use Greasemonkey because it is easy, a few use the card patch because it is hard, but VERY FEW use the dice patch because it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. And I personally think that anybody who takes the time to do it, deserves the small advantage it affords. For those who are interested, here's how it's done:

First off, it is all about the Cyclomatic Code Complexity within the dice algorithm . The simple part to explain is that on this site the dice algorithm code complexity is defined by control flow, and obviously there are different ways of measuring complexity (e.g. data complexity, module complexity, algorithmic complexity, call-to, call-by, etc.), and although these other methods are effective in the right context, it seems to be generally accepted that control flow is one of the most useful measurements of complexity, and high complexity methods have been shown to be a strong indicator of low reliability and frequent errors. That's simple enough, but it's what we do with it that's so cool... This measure provides a single ordinal number that can be compared to the complexity of other methods. Because of static software metrics intended to be independent of language and language format, Cyclomatic Code Complexity becomes a measure of the number of linearly-independent paths through a program module and is calculated by counting the number of decision points found in the code. Stay with me people... I use a Lutz Roeders Reflector which basically allows the user to point his Reflector tool at any Common Langauge Runtime (CLR) assembly, and it will then de-compile this creating an entirely reflected treeview with all the objects from the source assembly shown, with code. Yes with code. Great stuff. Basically you can use this tool to see how any valid CLR (assuming it has not been obfuscated) assembly works. Anyway the up shot of it, is that we get a boolean to say that the current file is valid or not, that is all we care about at the moment. So if the file requested is not a valid CLR type an error message is shown, and nothing else is done. However, if the input file is a valid CLR file, it is then checked to see if the file is a "System" assembly, and if it is... eureka! You get an extra digit on the dice. Ok so thats pretty much all there is to it.

Thanks again Robinette, I've really enjoyed using your methods. The dice gods have still been hating me of late though. I haven't won an odds-on elimination sweep in quite a few tries.

I appreciate the help though, I knows it's saved me a few rolls along the way!