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Was I wrong?

Postby sickmaniac on Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:39 pm

I was in a no-cards lately (1789542) where two players were dominant, and me and another player were hanging around with about 40 armies each or so. It was a classic board. I was in Japan, and Rozebud was occupying Australia, defending from Siam. I informed Rozebud that the game was getting boring (neither of us had an even remote chance of winning), so I was going to send my troops against him unless he retreated into Australia fully.

My rationale was that I needed a bonus to compete in the game, and I couldn't have Asia or Australia without fighting him. So I did. I took Australia completely, and held it for a few turns before the game ended. Later, Rozebud gives me the first negative feedback of my CC career, saying I "committed suicide." Sorry, but there was just no chance that he was going to win the game, and what was I suppose to do? Stay in Japan with a 3-army bonus for 20 more rounds? I had to make a move and I did.

So, my question is: Was it technically wrong of me to threaten Rozebud with "suicide troops" therefore earning me a negative? Or, was it my right to attack Rozebud even though I knew I we both little chance to win?

I really am upset about this negative, but I'll take it if I broke a rule. Can some senior members look briefly at the game and weigh in? Many thanks!
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby firth4eva on Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:54 pm

Yes.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby Dancing Mustard on Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:06 pm

Just leave him a neg saying: "Up yours homo fag, this is a neg for negging me. You fag."

That'll sort this whole mess out in no time.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby mightyleemoon on Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:19 pm

Isn't this based on the game Risk?

So isn't the idea is that you sometimes have to take a Risky move?

To me...what you did was in spirit of how the game was designed. Sometimes...you just have to take a Risk. Most of the time those kinds of moves don't pay off. But when they do...I don't see anything wrong with it. You made a last desperate move and it worked.

Whining about it is just as douchebag a move as whining about taking 15 and losing them all trying to take 4. Shouldn't be a suicide run but it turned out to be one.

Such is dice...
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby Top Dog on Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:09 pm

If you ONLY had guys in asia then yeah... it's prolly ok..... I'd have to see the game but it sounded like a mistake but I'd have to see the game to be sure... that's why lack needs to get a turn by turn rewind of games on this site!
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby Findolphin on Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:46 pm

FFS how can it be wrong? If the game engine lets you do it then it's ok. Forget about it and move on.

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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby oVo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:54 pm

Right or wrong... the weak attacking the weak when there are two stronger players pretty much always sucks, because as many players here will tell you... a game is never over until it's finished. There have been many winning comebacks made from the grave on this site. So if you thought you had no chance, all you did was insure that this other guy also had no chance.

It also sounds like the choice you made didn't do you much good, so it probably was a bad choice. The sour grapes neg given by the guy you stepped on is equally wrong.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby detlef on Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:43 pm

Was it wrong, as in unfair or immoral? Certainly not.

Was it wrong as in pretty much stupid? No freaking question it was.

That was not a "risk". That was a stupid move that lost the game for both you and the player in Aussie. Understood that you were both very weak and not likely to win. However, in order for your gambit to make any sense at all, there needed to be an upside for you.

Since, as you say, you both had about 40 armies, you had to assume that, at very least, you would lose 20-25 armies attacking him. Let's assume the lower of the two. So, you trade in 20 armies to increase your deployment per round from 3 to 5. That means, even if nobody attacks you, you will not break even for your efforts for another 10 turns. Seems like a pretty crappy pay off to me. Especially considering that you are just as likely to lose 30+ armies in the attack and leave both you and that player for dead.

So, that is precisely the type of move that makes me pissed off. When a player comes and messes with me and really gains nothing for their efforts.

This is not whining, this is somebody telling a dumbass that he's a dumbass.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby oggiss on Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:45 pm

Too me it sounds reasonable. And btw, dont play no cards.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby sickmaniac on Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:52 pm

Great answers here. Bottom line is that I made a dick move, and my opponent overreacted with a negative feedback. Thanks for your advice and candor, everyone.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby 0ojakeo0 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:00 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:Just leave him a neg saying: "Up yours homo fag, this is a neg for negging me. You fag."

That'll sort this whole mess out in no time.

thats what i do and there like

OK OK il remove mine if u remove urs
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby Joodoo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:28 pm

0ojakeo0 wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote:Just leave him a neg saying: "Up yours homo fag, this is a neg for negging me. You fag."

That'll sort this whole mess out in no time.

thats what i do and there like

OK OK il remove mine if u remove urs


lol
and I think it was ok to threaten him once because you're only getting one negative feedback, but if you don't like negative feedback and you know that someone is gonna give you negative feedback because you threatened them, then don't do it next time...
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby greenoaks on Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:01 pm

sickmaniac wrote:Great answers here. Bottom line is that I made a dick move, and my opponent overreacted with a negative feedback. Thanks for your advice and candor, everyone.
bottom line is you made a dick move and your opponent has left the rest of us a warning about you.

this site could use more people like him.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby Warsteiner on Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:07 pm

sickmaniac wrote:I was in a no-cards lately (1789542) where two players were dominant, and me and another player were hanging around with about 40 armies each or so. It was a classic board. I was in Japan, and Rozebud was occupying Australia, defending from Siam. I informed Rozebud that the game was getting boring (neither of us had an even remote chance of winning), so I was going to send my troops against him unless he retreated into Australia fully.

My rationale was that I needed a bonus to compete in the game, and I couldn't have Asia or Australia without fighting him. So I did. I took Australia completely, and held it for a few turns before the game ended. Later, Rozebud gives me the first negative feedback of my CC career, saying I "committed suicide." Sorry, but there was just no chance that he was going to win the game, and what was I suppose to do? Stay in Japan with a 3-army bonus for 20 more rounds? I had to make a move and I did.

So, my question is: Was it technically wrong of me to threaten Rozebud with "suicide troops" therefore earning me a negative? Or, was it my right to attack Rozebud even though I knew I we both little chance to win?

I really am upset about this negative, but I'll take it if I broke a rule. Can some senior members look briefly at the game and weigh in? Many thanks!



warning him was all you could do, agreed there, but taking australia was probably a little tough and turned the game to the win for the third player. better just make threats and don't act out on them :P
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby BaldAdonis on Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:22 pm

Just remember that you can only leave 1 negative per person, so now that you have one from this guy, you have free reign to do whatever you want in the next game without repercussion.
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Re: Was I wong?

Postby oVo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:30 pm

Rozebud ( 66-2 )
Negative
SickManiac got bored and committed suicide (on me..lol) in this game..killed himself and took me out too..Here is his/her own statement in the game: 2008-03-21 14:36:49 - sickmaniac: This is getting rather boring. Rozebud, I am goign to have to ask you to vacate Siam, or face my Japanese suicide troops next round"..How's that for a confession of suicide?? So, when you get into a No Cards game that lasts for too many turns (according to him/her)..WATCH OUT! I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT WAS PURE SUICIDE GIVEN THAT WE EACH HAD ABOUT 50 ARMIES WHEN HE DID IT AND WHEN HE WAS DONE HE HAD 4 AND I HAD 1..LOLOL..ALSO..AFTER I LEFT THIS WELL DESERVED FEEDBACK FOR THE SICK MANIAC SUICIDE MISSION..HE ALSO DECIDED TO BREAK THE RULES AND LEAVE RETALIATORY FEEDBACK..BOOOOO :o) BOTTOM LINE..SICK MANIAC LACKS THE PATIENCE..AND PERHAPS ALSO THE ABILITY TO PLAY A LONG GAME :o) And his juvenile response only reinforces everything I stated and shows how truly he really does live up to his name :o)
sickmaniac's response: Blow me.


sickmaniac ( 39-1 )
Negative
An extremely poor sport. Rozebud was offered an extremely reasonable treaty, decided not to take it, and then complained when I eliminated him. Watch out for this extremely sensitive player--especially if you value your CC reputation. This man might be slightly insane, as evidenced by the lame and slightly Gaceyesque clown symbol that accompanies his remarks :0) Stay away from this passive aggressive weirdo. Rozebud's response: LOL This was pure suicide on the part of SickManiac :o) We each had about 50 armies when he launched his suicide mission...at the end of it I had 1 and he had 4...so he took both of us out of the game...LOL "reasonable treaty" my butt :o)...Also..this feedback from sick maniac...was purely retaliatory in nature!!! So he commits suicide and also breaks the rules!!! BOOOOOOOOOO :o) OH AND BY THE WAY..THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I EVER LEFT NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FOR ANYONE HERE :o) Oh, and here is Sick Maniacs: confession..um I mean "reasonable offer" in the game: 2008-03-21 14:36:49 - sickmaniac: "This is getting rather boring. Rozebud, I am goign to have to ask you to vacate Siam, or face my Japanese suicide troops next round"..How's that for a confession of suicide??

Sounds like you earned this one sickmaniac... prolly shudda PMed him and discussed your actions and the neg first. [-X
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby sickmaniac on Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:59 am

greenoaks wrote:
sickmaniac wrote:Great answers here. Bottom line is that I made a dick move, and my opponent overreacted with a negative feedback. Thanks for your advice and candor, everyone.
bottom line is you made a dick move and your opponent has left the rest of us a warning about you.

this site could use more people like him.


Like you've never made a dick move... How's that horse you're on? Pretty fucking high, isn't it?
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby mightyleemoon on Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:22 am

greenoaks wrote:
sickmaniac wrote:Great answers here. Bottom line is that I made a dick move, and my opponent overreacted with a negative feedback. Thanks for your advice and candor, everyone.
bottom line is you made a dick move and your opponent has left the rest of us a warning about you.

this site could use more people like him.


More whiny bitches?

Why?

Oh...but he hurt someone else's chance of winning.

Boo-freakin-hoo.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby detlef on Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:46 am

mightyleemoon wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
sickmaniac wrote:Great answers here. Bottom line is that I made a dick move, and my opponent overreacted with a negative feedback. Thanks for your advice and candor, everyone.
bottom line is you made a dick move and your opponent has left the rest of us a warning about you.

this site could use more people like him.


More whiny bitches?

Why?

Oh...but he hurt someone else's chance of winning.

Boo-freakin-hoo.

Honestly, think about what you're saying because it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It sounds like you're implying we think that anyone who "hurts your chances of winning" should be left neg feedback. Obviously that is wrong because everyone who wins "hurts the chances of the other players winning".

That is not the issue since this player gained nothing from the attack. It is, by any reasonable definition, a suicide run. This is precisely the kind of thing that should deserve neg feedback. I could give a rat's ass about somebody's foul mouth. I don't want to get into a game with somebody who's going to get bored and just throw himself against a random player for no good reason. That doesn't make the game very fun and I play this game because it can be fun.

I don't think it is too much to ask of players to do what they think is in their best interest to win the game (with certain very extreme exceptions). If this player thought that launching an attack against a heavily guarded bonus area that would earn him 2 more armies per turn considering the fact that he and the other player were the weakest on the board, then he needs to learn a lot about how to play this game. If he realized that this move would be his and the other players undoing and it was not in retaliation for some f'ed up stuff the other player had done, then he deserves all the flack he's getting.

As I see it, the only person whining is the guy who did something stupid and then got neg feedback for it. Sure, we've all done stupid things. However, if I do something stupid enough, then I'm going to expect to take some crap for it. That's all that is happening here.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby herndawg on Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:37 pm

8 player Terminator games are great for suicide runs without enough dice and armies. Just make sure you join my games as player 8 and do it when everyone is holding 3-5 cards so I can clean up the mess. I will give you a positive, promise :wink:
and yea, this is what negs are for I think and it seems your neg. had no lewd comments or swearing, etc. just stating why he had a negative experience. I've ruined games for people plenty, but it is on escalating games. Going for the game type moves that if not for bad dice I would've won it all that turn type deal. Anyway if I were you I would just never look at this thread again and go play some games. I do like the suicide announcement though, that was great =D>
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby greenoaks on Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:21 pm

sickmaniac wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
sickmaniac wrote:Great answers here. Bottom line is that I made a dick move, and my opponent overreacted with a negative feedback. Thanks for your advice and candor, everyone.
bottom line is you made a dick move and your opponent has left the rest of us a warning about you.

this site could use more people like him.


Like you've never made a dick move... How's that horse you're on? Pretty fucking high, isn't it?
i have made dick moves, i have the negative feedback to prove it. i just don't come here looking for sympathy.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby JACKAZZTJM on Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:24 am

maybe hell get rid of the neg if u meet up with him in the creepy country of "who gives a shit" and f##k him in his cc lovin ass
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby adman67 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:11 pm

No, not in the action itself. How you got there quite possibly.

Delivering ultimatums is always a risky issue and certainly is within the rules of the game. You really were giving him no options though so what was the point in even telling him? Nextt ime, just attack, it will be better that way. When you issue an ultimatum and the person receiving it ignores ort fights it the end result will always leave a player upset.

What you did was part of the game and if you had made a move somewhere else, leaving him be; he would have attacked you as soon as your guard was down.

Obviously some players take it harder than others.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby FabledIntegral on Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:36 pm

mightyleemoon wrote:Isn't this based on the game Risk?

So isn't the idea is that you sometimes have to take a Risky move?

To me...what you did was in spirit of how the game was designed. Sometimes...you just have to take a Risk. Most of the time those kinds of moves don't pay off. But when they do...I don't see anything wrong with it. You made a last desperate move and it worked.

Whining about it is just as douchebag a move as whining about taking 15 and losing them all trying to take 4. Shouldn't be a suicide run but it turned out to be one.

Such is dice...


Are you retarded? Calling someone a douchebag for leaving a suicide feedback? Of course this game isn't based on friggin' risky moves. It's based on odds and playing probability - not trying to get "lucky" and take RISKS. Huge friggin' difference.
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Re: Was I wrong?

Postby hiddendragon on Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:00 pm

Ones tactics are a personal affair...Sadly though your tactics proves why you sit with your lowly rank...It isn't right for me to say you were right or wrong all I can say is my strategy would have been different...That is the difference between us and why we each hold the ranks we do...


sickmaniac wrote:I was in a no-cards lately (1789542) where two players were dominant, and me and another player were hanging around with about 40 armies each or so. It was a classic board. I was in Japan, and Rozebud was occupying Australia, defending from Siam. I informed Rozebud that the game was getting boring (neither of us had an even remote chance of winning), so I was going to send my troops against him unless he retreated into Australia fully.

My rationale was that I needed a bonus to compete in the game, and I couldn't have Asia or Australia without fighting him. So I did. I took Australia completely, and held it for a few turns before the game ended. Later, Rozebud gives me the first negative feedback of my CC career, saying I "committed suicide." Sorry, but there was just no chance that he was going to win the game, and what was I suppose to do? Stay in Japan with a 3-army bonus for 20 more rounds? I had to make a move and I did.

So, my question is: Was it technically wrong of me to threaten Rozebud with "suicide troops" therefore earning me a negative? Or, was it my right to attack Rozebud even though I knew I we both little chance to win?

I really am upset about this negative, but I'll take it if I broke a rule. Can some senior members look briefly at the game and weigh in? Many thanks!
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