Conquer Club

Posted: **Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:14 am**

PLEASE NOTE: This post is for newcomers. To inform them about potential dangers that they might encounter during a game. Experienced players will likely not find anything of interest in this post, but constructive contributions to this thread are greatly appreciated.

The title may seem dramatic, but I have good cause. I did consider 'WARNING: Danger Of Death', but that seemed over the top. Basically I want to warn you about starting Freestyle Play Order team game. You should seriously reconsider creating team games with the Freestyle Play Order setting, because there are groups of highly organised and ruthless individuals that are looking for such games and will join them enmasse, taking their turn as one.

There's pretty much nothing you can do to counter that tactic, it's celebrated in a somewhat tasteless fashion in the General Discussion Forum topic entitled Farming secret revealed. But don't despair just yet! While it's not a good idea to host or join Freestyle Play Order games, moves are a foot by members of this community to address this issue as detailed in this post in the Sugs & Bugs Forum topic entitled Partial Freestyle. In my humble opinion I think this suggestion is a good idea, if you agree then I encourage you to add your voice to the Yes Vote.

If this depressing warning is not enough reason for you not host/join Freestyle Play Order team games then click the -SHOW: DETAILED EXPLANATION- link below, it will show the more detailed original post that you can read at your leisure.

show: Detailed Explanation

Play safe and choose wisely.

Artimis

Posted: **Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:30 pm**

I totally agree. I join freestyle unlimited teamgames all the time. doubles, triples, quadruples, etc.
starting first gives you a big advantage! I usually tell opponents they shouldn't make them anymore!
So I can only say: listen to Artimis and don't host/join those games anymore if you want to keep your points!

KP (part of the "group of particularly well organised and ruthless individuals" :lol:

)

Posted: **Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:52 pm**

We got farmed for being n00bs (not newbs Max, in case you wander in here). I actually feel kinda stupid because I knew this happened all the time, but I guess I'll take it as a learning experience.

Posted: **Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:57 pm**

Yer I agree. Personally I do think it is unethical. However I agree its not against the rules.

I also joined this game to play against 4 individuals in a team game. What we got was no different to a multi playing all the accounts. The team waited for results of attacks and added more reins when necessary or pushed pushes from player A to B to C back to A then to D etc all in the same turn. 4 individuals playing at different times cannot use this strategy.

Personally I feel the rules should be changed so that players in the same team cannot play at the same time. That would solve this exploit and would also discourage multi players.

Posted: **Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:05 pm**

Sounds like a bunch of cry babies to me.You created a team game on settings you thought convenent to you and because of this your team was crushed.I would advise not creating freestyle games but rather joining them!!!

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:43 am**

Hey Prankcall

How about you grow up and stop calling people names. We merely pointed out an exploit which I feel (and others agree) are not in the spirit of the game and we have to read your trash.

Seriously mate if that's all you have to offer then keep it to yourself.

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:09 am**

This is a rather funny post. I think anybody who has been around a bit knows this happens. Personally I think it is good when teams take the time to all play at once together. It shows TEAM PLAY. It is a team game after all? If you want to go one at a time play SEQ. BTW, just because you go first does not mean you will always win.

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:21 am**

and the OP should be run through the multi-scanner STAT

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:39 am**

cardz wrote:Yer I agree. Personally I do think it is unethical. However I agree its not against the rules.

I also joined this game to play against 4 individuals in a team game. What we got was no different to a multi playing all the accounts. The team waited for results of attacks and added more reins when necessary or pushed pushes from player A to B to C back to A then to D etc all in the same turn. 4 individuals playing at different times cannot use this strategy.

Personally I feel the rules should be changed so that players in the same team cannot play at the same time. That would solve this exploit and would also discourage multi players.

Well, you can avoid this in future by avoiding games that are both Freestyle Play Order AND Unlimited Reinforcements until you get a solid team together of friends you know you can rely on. You will just get points farmed otherwise, like our last game.

Bruceswar, I agree with the point that it was good team play to use such a tactic, teamplay is something that should be encouraged in team games. However I would appreciate a heads up on such a tactic before getting my arse handed to me on a silver platter. That is the point of this thread, to info others, the downside is that it may well propogate the tactic in question. But if it gets the news out faster then it may well be worth it, because the players who employ this tactic will have to work harder to earn their victory against opponents who have been informed.

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:13 am**

No its not only the unlimited reinforcements rule that lead makes this exploit. Its also the fact that at the start of a turn one person moves whilst the other accounts wait and can keep adding start turn reins if needed. This can and probably does happen even without unlimited reinforcements. Playing one at a time even in a team game makes this impossible.

Yes I can see your point that this is team work. If both teams are doing this then its all fine and fair. However when a team of individuals plays against a team that all plays together this makes its unfair and in my view anyway unethical. Why? Because they joined a game of individuals wanting each player to work on their own as a team. Instead what we got was no different to 1 person playing all 4 accounts. Its is an unfair advantage to the team that does this and really shouldn't exist in the game.

If the rules can be changed so that in a team game only 1 person on each team can play simultaneously then that would get rid of this exploit.

Finally No playing a sequential game is not the answer. In a sequential game you might be waiting a week to have your turn. Whilst in the freestyle you may take your turn in any order and guaranteed of a turn every 24hrs.

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:44 am**

Its like 5 points and its completely legit. And, yes, I am on the losing team.

If you don't want 4 people acting as one, play non-team freestyle and you still get at least 1 turn per day. Or better yet take Karelpietertje's advice, get your own regular team and do the "unethical" deed yourself.

Again, on the losing team.

EDIT: The member of my team with the least amount of games is Artimis with 95 completed. Not one player was truly wet behind the ears, to kill the "it hurts newbs" argument in this specific instance.

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:55 am**

PepperJack wrote:Its like 5 points and its completely legit. And, yes, I am on the losing team.

If you don't want 4 people acting as one, play non-team freestyle and you still get at least 1 turn per day. Or better yet take Karelpietertje's advice, get your own regular team and do the "unethical" deed yourself.

Again, on the losing team.

EDIT: The member of my team with the least amount of games is Artimis with 95 completed. Not one player was truly wet behind the ears, to kill the "it hurts newbs" argument in this specific instance.

I fail to see how good team play becomes unethical. This is no different that a quads SEQ game setup by 4 higher ranks and get 4 lower ranks to play them. Happens sometimes in casual games. Most of the time the lower ranks have not played with each other often if at all. BTW it is not soo easy to get a team together and all get on at the same time every day for however many days the game takes. Bravo to those who can do it and do it well. Just because 3 or 4 people choose to play at the same time does not mean they can employ a good strategy.

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:16 am**

Bruceswar wrote:I fail to see how good team play becomes unethical.

I don't think you've been paying attention.

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:50 pm**

The fact is, they were seriously organised, I mean hardcore-out-to-win organised! It goes to show that superior teamwork will win a team game. I must admit that it's a valid tactic given the game settings, sure it flipping hurt to get my teeth kicked in epic style, especially as our team simply didn't act as one like they did. They knew what to do and I suspect they're doing exactly the same thing to someone else in another game even as this thread gathers in length.

It's not cheating because it doesn't break the letter of the law(or the letter of CC rules if you will), so it's a valid strategy of attack. I can't really call it unethical because it doesn't break the spirit of the law either, the primary objective is to beat your opponents into oblivion afterall....

So the next best thing I can do is warn newcomers about it, maybe they'll even try it out, who knows? :mrgreen:

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:01 pm**

cardz wrote:Yer I agree. Personally I do think it is unethical. However I agree its not against the rules.

This taken from Dictionary.com

"not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior; "unethical business practices"

Cardz why is it unethical? Is it because you don't like it? If this tactic caught you off guard then maybe you don't know what is the accepted norm in freestyle.

cardz wrote:I also joined this game to play against 4 individuals in a team game.

This comment puzzles me. You joined a team game expecting to play four individuals not playing as a team?

cardz wrote:What we got was no different to a multi playing all the accounts. The team waited for results of attacks and added more reins when necessary or pushed pushes from player A to B to C back to A then to D etc all in the same turn. 4 individuals playing at different times cannot use this strategy.

cardz wrote:Personally I feel the rules should be changed so that players in the same team cannot play at the same time.

You could call it semi-freestyle.

cardz wrote:That would solve this exploit and would also discourage multi players.

I don't know who programed or came up with freestyle, but if he/she wanted the game to be played this way then it isn't and exploit.

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:32 am**

Artimis wrote:DISCLAIMER: I'd like to start by saying that what you're about to see is in no way unethical gameplay. It is entirely within the rules and any group of individuals who is dedicated and organised enough to pull this off can carry on to their hearts content. This post is purely for informative purposes so as to limit the number of victims they can hammer into the ground with this particularly ruthless strategy.

Greetings boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen.

Some of you may read this with amusement, others will read this with confusion. But most hopefully will take onboard what I'm about to describe, I especially want newcomers to the game(like myself) to be made aware of what they're getting into when joining team games with 'certain' settings. I point towards Game 3629378 as my personally painful example of what the Unlimited Reinforcements setting will do to a team game. This group of particularly well organised and ruthless individuals have used the Unlimited Reinforcements setting to sustain a rolling attack across the map. The issue here is further exacerbated by the Freestyle Play Order setting, which is not a problem in itself, but when combined with Unlimited Reinforcements, makes for some very, very, very sick gameplay.

Here are a few questions you might want to ask:

Q: Is it cheating?
A: NOPE! It's legit and within the rules.

Q: Is it urine extraction on an epic scale?
A: HELL YES! But then again urine extraction is not expressly forbidden.

Q: How do I avoid players using this tactic?
A: Simple, don't join/host team games with Unlimited Reinforcements, it's that easy. If you're hosting a game and you set Unlimited Reinforcements, even after reading this post, then frankly you deserve what you get.

Q: But what if I like using this tactic?
A: That's up to you, but don't be surprised if you find yourself added to a few foe lists in the process. It's not very sporting and especially so when used on green recruits.

So we can conclude that while it is not illegitimate gameplay it is super-massively-munchkin-beardy-power-playing! If you play team games with Unlimited Reinforcements, sooner or later you will run into this. If you want to avoid getting your arse handed to you then read the game settings carefully before joining. Remember, Unlimited Reinforcements in team games will make for very perilous gameplay.

Be safe now and choose wisely.

Artimis

PepperJack wrote::roll:

We got farmed for being n00bs (not newbs Max, in case you wander in here). I actually feel kinda stupid because I knew this happened all the time, but I guess I'll take it as a learning experience.

So wait, let me get this right, you both created games with partners who you knew and wanted to play with. Then, you expected a low ranking uncoordinated team to join, who you could easily beat, and now you are upset that good players joined against you and won?

You Were Farming :lol:

ROFL...and great job to sjnap and karel for teaching those farmers a lesson

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:39 am**

PepperJack wrote::roll:

We got farmed for being n00bs (not newbs Max, in case you wander in here). I actually feel kinda stupid because I knew this happened all the time, but I guess I'll take it as a learning experience.

oh, and I never use the term newbs:

(from urbandictionary.com)

newb: A term used to describe a inexperienced gamer/person/etc. Unlike a noob, a newb is someone who actually wants to get better.

or

newb: Someone who is new to the activity that they are currently partaking in. Very often this term is used pertaining to computer games. Contrary to popular belief, a newb and a n00b are not the same thing, as a newb can and will get better where as a n00b will partake in activites meant mainly to aggrivate other players.

either way, I join games with n00bs, people who come to the site with no intention of ever playing. That is actually the difference between the games I play and the games others do, other farmers play newbs and discourage them from coming back, I take the n00b games with the people who are just deadbeats. You are a n00b, as you said, because you are an experience player yet you are bad at that style of game and clearly are not joining to learn, but to aggravate your teammate whose chances of winning you screwed up.

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:06 am**

Are you guys retarded? Exploit? That's laughable. The entire point of freestyle is being able to play when others are playing. You're complaining about the nature of the game and trying to say that they should be foed for it? Hardly, if anything you should be foed to stop your ignorance from being contagious.

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:46 am**

Fabled-

While I agree, I think that you are missing the point that they were hoping for a cheap way of winning which is why they created the game, and now they are annoyed because players who knew what they were doing joined. It is really funny actually; its like Herpes or lt.pie complained about a (non multi) n00b beating them in a waterloo 8 player because they were good

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:53 am**

I never complained nor did I expect an easy victory. I was actually arguing with the people on my team. But what do I know about what I said, I'm only the one who said it.

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:23 am**

PepperJack wrote:I never complained nor did I expect an easy victory.

Judging by the company you keep, it will always be difficult to expect any kind of victory. But you carry on, be my guest.

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:46 am**

maxatstuy wrote:So wait, let me get this right, you both created games with partners who you knew and wanted to play with. Then, you expected a low ranking uncoordinated team to join, who you could easily beat, and now you are upset that good players joined against you and won?

You Were Farming

ROFL...and great job to sjnap and karel for teaching those farmers a lesson

Here's to getting it right.....

1) I don't actually know my teammates in that game all that well, it was my first ever team game and I didn't know what to expect.

2) I didn't create the game, this is self evident by the fact that I'm not Red, the host is usually at the top of the list and I've not yet been to a game that it is otherwise.

3) I'm not a farmer and I don't think my teammates were either, you assume an awful lot on the basis of very little and really need to think about what you're saying before you post.

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:27 am**

Yer a lot of assumptions flying around here. Let me explain it in layman terms.

1. Most of us who got our asses kicked did not start the game. Only 1 person did!

2. We did not know each other. We were planning on playing a game together at random times in a team game. i.e. Meet nice new people and work with them. We did not really want to play a group of people that play at the same time and have an advantage of chain reining each other.

3. Basically it seems like either dont play team games or create a group of people that can commit to a certain time and play as one. Which is hard for the casual player.

I suggested a solution of not letting players from the same side play at the same time. If you are really bent of being able to do this then perhaps we could create 2 types of team games where you can do this and where you cant do it. I know which rules I would play in and I am sure most/all the other casual players would choose the same.

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:57 am**

Evil Semp wrote:
Cardz why is it unethical? Is it because you don't like it? If this tactic caught you off guard then maybe you don't know what is the accepted norm in freestyle.

I feel its not the accepted normal in freestyle. I know majority of freestyle team games I play this does not happen in. Playing a freestyle game you always have to be careful of bad players, now should you be careful of multi-reining teams that play at once also?

cardz wrote:Personally I feel the rules should be changed so that players in the same team cannot play at the same time.

You could call it semi-freestyle.

Hmm maybe or casual freestyle. Or call this simultaneous freestyle.

I don't know who programed or came up with freestyle, but if he/she wanted the game to be played this way then it isn't and exploit.

Yes I would agree to that. I however doubt that was considered though.

Just consider when you play in single games. You cant use some reins and attack and then use more reins during a turn. But doing this you can, and you can keep doing it as long as you have reins left to play. It should have similar rules like a single game, I feel anyway.

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:33 am**

Unlimited forts greatly benefit whoeevr goes first, even on sequential (though there it is luck who goes first). I personally don't play many games with unlimited forts anymore because of this extra "luck" element. there are still plenty of other games for me to join.

But having said that , I choose not to play them because I know about stuff like that in this thread, so it's only fair everyone gets to hear about these tactics so they can choose whether they want to play it or not too. I can see how this is exploitation of those who are expecting more conventional 4Vs4 games.

So yeah, do tell everyone about these tactics as they are fair and legitimate (and 2 teams using thema gainst eachother would be a fun thing to watch).

Conquer Club

NEWCOMERS BEWARE: Freestyle Team Games

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