Conquer Club

I've lost freestyle games (and sometimes won them!) due to the incredible reflexes and timing of others or myself - and recently heard others speaking about scripting their moves...so I started working on making my player warp capable. I've been able to overcome a few issues with respect to having a stable script that can have a course laid in and executed very quickly...apparently quicker than most players on the site have seen. I know other tools have come out for helping players get an advantage during a game - I'm not sure if this falls in the same bucket - so I wanted to throw it out there for comment from other players and the site administration:

Description: a script that can assist with or completely serve in the submission of moves - without the need for manual intervention during the execution of those moves. The submission of moves includes beginning, cashing, deploying, attacking, reinforcing, forting, and ending. It is not limited to only being fired off on demand (ie: it can be scheduled to execute at a certain time) and it can include logic for branches where different instructions (including aborting the attacks) can occur based on the board state at any time during the moves. The end result is the ability to execute multiple moves a second (give or take - depending on the type of move)...much faster than other scripts I've heard are out there and already in use for this purpose.

some ways I think this could be good for a player using it:

* performing last second moves at the end of a round (to kill a player, capture a map winning goal, break another player, ...)
* to quickly begin a turn and strike hard long before the other player(s) see their Begin button (especially if they have to wait for someone else to start before they can)
* taking out a player quickly for their cards in an escalating card game
* capturing army producing territories (ie: continents) at the last second and collecting on them the next round
* [new entry] kicking off a set of moves automatically at a specific time (say with 5 seconds left in the round - although leave extra time if you are crushing large stacks!)
* [new entry] kicking off a move automatically for you when it becomes your turn if you are not going to be available to login and make it due to vacations, work, etc...
* etc...

some drawbacks:

* lining up a set of moves and executing at warp can backfire if you are operating in a fog and hit a nasty brick wall (which could cause you to fail or perform an unintentional suicide manuever).
* most plans do not survive first contact with the enemy - your best laid plans may leave you an undesirable end state on the board when the execution is complete
* you don't necessarily know what others will try to do at the last second - potentially rendering your plan invalid

I am slowly building a list of considerations as well...finding some of them as I go...as well as a list of features that are needed to mature and broaden the capabilities...and as most of the initial effort went into making it stable the administration of the script could use some polishing.

I know others are working towards this goal as well - what does everyone think about this? The cat is out of the bag - if acceptable this type of scripting can change how some of the games are played. Or maybe it might be a fair tactic and level the playing field against the players with quick fingers, good Internet connections, and strategies for turning the tables on the game via their own style of quick manuvers or running out the clock.

maybe suggestions is a better forum for this? hmmmm....-0

i didn't mean to post it as a suggestion for an improvement - people have made these scripts and are using them. I wanted to know if people generally think this is another OK tactic to use - as well as if the CC site administrator has anything against scripting in general. I can imagine some of the scripts out there generate load on the system that wasn't initially baked into the normal load pattern and capacity planning for the site's platform.

enterprise47 wrote:I can imagine some of the scripts out there generate load on the system that wasn't initially baked into the normal load pattern and capacity planning for the site's platform.

Some scripts can generate such load. However the one you describe wouldn't seem to do that ... it just automates the sending of turn activity instructions - no extra data sent or extra calls for information just automation ?

honestly guys his script amazes me. 5 territories with advance in 2 seconds... O.O

cicero wrote:Some scripts can generate such load. However the one you describe wouldn't seem to do that ... it just automates the sending of turn activity instructions - no extra data sent or extra calls for information just automation ?

you are correct - this script just automates the sending of moves - no extra data is sent or asked for. the only difference i see here is the lack of 'think times' or latency between moves caused by putting a person in the chain of orchestrating the submission of each move - and maybe this is a non-issue...

enterprise47 wrote:

cicero wrote:Some scripts can generate such load. However the one you describe wouldn't seem to do that ... it just automates the sending of turn activity instructions - no extra data sent or extra calls for information just automation ?

you are correct - this script just automates the sending of moves - no extra data is sent or asked for. the only difference i see here is the lack of 'think times' or latency between moves caused by putting a person in the chain of orchestrating the submission of each move - and maybe this is a non-issue...

For the love of god what does this mean?

enterprise47 wrote: the only difference i see here is the lack of 'think times' or latency between moves caused by putting a person in the chain of orchestrating the submission of each move - and maybe this is a non-issue...

wait.. am i reading this correctly? you want to create a script to do your moves faster by eliminating yourself from the chain of activity? is this correct? like, your mind to hand to mouse action is so slow that you want to automate this? or is it that you are looking for that extra .000000000000002th of a second to increase your overall speed? can you elaborate in terms that even myself can understand? thanks...-0

owenshooter wrote:

enterprise47 wrote: the only difference i see here is the lack of 'think times' or latency between moves caused by putting a person in the chain of orchestrating the submission of each move - and maybe this is a non-issue...

wait.. am i reading this correctly? you want to create a script to do your moves faster by eliminating yourself from the chain of activity? is this correct? like, your mind to hand to mouse action is so slow that you want to automate this? or is it that you are looking for that extra .000000000000002th of a second to increase your overall speed? can you elaborate in terms that even myself can understand? thanks...-0

I think I can sort this out for you owen...

Evidence 1: The Op's name - 'enterprise47'
Evidence 2: The word 'warp'

Conclusion: Too much Trek = a fascination with 'The Borg' and a belief that the collective mind of machines is superior to the creative impulses of the humanistic mind.

Treatment: A girlfriend...and quickly!

No guys i have seen this in action. Its incredible. basically its the speed of clickable maps but without any need to click therefore no time needed to click or move mouse. I have seen him auto advance 5 territories in 2 seconds.

jarrett155 wrote:No guys i have seen this in action. Its incredible. basically its the speed of clickable maps but without any need to click therefore no time needed to click or move mouse. I have seen him auto advance 5 territories in 2 seconds.

But did he have any idea where he was going...?

Yes he enters the path he wants it to follow before hand and i have now seen him take and advance 9 territories in 3 seconds

Honestly guys, this is bigger news and will affect gameplay soooo much more than Clickable Maps ever did.

to all those opposed to clickable maps, this is similar but to an extreme.

to all those for clickable maps this is your gateway to increased speed and tactical advantage.
(just imagine plotting a kill in an 8 man freestyle esc game and not having to worry about it getting stolen.)

Reference:
Game 3820741

2008-12-11 04:55:49 - enterprise47 assaulted Lake Minstello 2 from Rebel Territory 7 and conquered it from neutral player
2008-12-11 04:55:49 - enterprise47 assaulted Fol Village from Lake Minstello 2 and conquered it from neutral player
2008-12-11 04:55:49 - enterprise47 assaulted Lake Minstello 1 from Fol Village and conquered it from WoWaholic
2008-12-11 04:55:50 - enterprise47 assaulted Realm of Might 1 from Lake Minstello 1 and conquered it from WoWaholic
2008-12-11 04:55:50 - enterprise47 assaulted Realm of Might 2 from Realm of Might 1 and conquered it from WoWaholic
2008-12-11 04:55:51 - enterprise47 assaulted Realm of Might Castle from Realm of Might 2 and conquered it from WoWaholic

to chang and owen,
if you have ever played any type of freestyle game you hopefully will understand the implications of this and stop making jokes about it.

personally i do not know where to stand on this topic.
Pro:
increased speed of attack obviously
no worries about kills getting stolen
opponents will be like 'wtf mang, was that shyt reeeal???'
Cons:
not everyone even knows about clickable maps and what they do, imagine this hitting them.. noobs would just leave the site and call everyone cheaters.
play in FS would change dramatically and not all players could adjust and they would just get frustrated with the site.
Others:
complicate gameplay and add more skill
more scripts to manage :P

I want to make another post if/when this new script comes out with a poll on it to find out people opinions about it.

also, congrats to enterprise.. this is an epic amount of work you are putting in to the community and i thank you for that.

lastly, a great quote which i think applies to this situation: "With great power comes great responsibility."

bridge2far wrote:to chang and owen,
if you have ever played any type of freestyle game you hopefully will understand the implications of this and stop making jokes about it.

how did i joke about it? i tried to re-explain what it was that he was explaining, asking if my understanding of the post was incorrect. and if it was not, to please phrase it in a way that i could understand... soooo, i have no idea how i am being accused of joking about this. i am always fascinated by the ways that people create to cheat on CC.. this will be a standard script, used by freestyle players, in about 48 hours if this is indeed true...-0

As awesome as this sounds, it breaks the game.

Once this becomes common among freestyle players, every player will begin their turn the instant it is available, and rounds will be over within seconds (assuming one doesn't interfere with the other, and every player has the script). I don't even have clickable maps and I know that this will replace it for some players.

I can foresee this being banned... this would make the site more unbalanced than DM or Norse ever did.

Sounds delicious. The more morally bankrupt this site becomes the happier cretins like me will be. Almost as cool as my girlfriends beer flavored nipples...

bridge2far wrote:Honestly guys, this is bigger news and will affect gameplay soooo much more than Clickable Maps ever did.

to all those opposed to clickable maps, this is similar but to an extreme.

to all those for clickable maps this is your gateway to increased speed and tactical advantage.
(just imagine plotting a kill in an 8 man freestyle esc game and not having to worry about it getting stolen.)

Reference:
Game 3820741

2008-12-11 04:55:49 - enterprise47 assaulted Lake Minstello 2 from Rebel Territory 7 and conquered it from neutral player
2008-12-11 04:55:49 - enterprise47 assaulted Fol Village from Lake Minstello 2 and conquered it from neutral player
2008-12-11 04:55:49 - enterprise47 assaulted Lake Minstello 1 from Fol Village and conquered it from WoWaholic
2008-12-11 04:55:50 - enterprise47 assaulted Realm of Might 1 from Lake Minstello 1 and conquered it from WoWaholic
2008-12-11 04:55:50 - enterprise47 assaulted Realm of Might 2 from Realm of Might 1 and conquered it from WoWaholic
2008-12-11 04:55:51 - enterprise47 assaulted Realm of Might Castle from Realm of Might 2 and conquered it from WoWaholic

to chang and owen,
if you have ever played any type of freestyle game you hopefully will understand the implications of this and stop making jokes about it.

personally i do not know where to stand on this topic.
Pro:
increased speed of attack obviously
no worries about kills getting stolen
opponents will be like 'wtf mang, was that shyt reeeal???'
Cons:
not everyone even knows about clickable maps and what they do, imagine this hitting them.. noobs would just leave the site and call everyone cheaters.
play in FS would change dramatically and not all players could adjust and they would just get frustrated with the site.
Others:
complicate gameplay and add more skill
more scripts to manage :P

I want to make another post if/when this new script comes out with a poll on it to find out people opinions about it.

also, congrats to enterprise.. this is an epic amount of work you are putting in to the community and i thank you for that.

lastly, a great quote which i think applies to this situation: "With great power comes great responsibility."

You're right of course, but I do find this amusing on many, many levels. The speed-freaks will all be scrambling for the new technology and if they can't get it...well the accusations of cheating and unfair advantages will elevate CC hypocrisy to whole new (and extremely funny) levels!

This is simple, a Machine that makes your moves is simpley not you.

You type in where you want to go put then it makes the moves for you??? i mean, hell just because i select to move somewhere on the drop down doesnt mean that i should move there and then somewhere else simultaniously.

CM was bad enough when it came out and debates still continue about that but a machine which is moving for you kind of co-insides with the rules isn't it? making your moves for you?

Really... Is this appropriate for CC?

I reckon it must be destroyed, it will make gaming rediculas

john9blue wrote:I can foresee this being banned... this would make the site more unbalanced than DM or Norse ever did.

There is no suitable possibility to force the ban (since you can't detect a script). Although I've never played a freestyle game and I never even meant to play one, I'll be kind of sorry to see it literally dead...

On the other side, it will be fun to make bets about players from the top - who'll have enough integrity to keep playing sequential while gradually sinking toward fifth page...

This reminds me of the 'Same Time' option from Risk 2. If all players had the script, all players would be able to program their moves pre-launch and then sit back and watch it all pan out. Now I am no freestyle player, but surely there would be an added element of strategy if all players had the script. Timing when to press 'launch' in itself would be incredibly interesting.

just for the record this would also have huge impact on casual games since you could tell it to make a move as soon as your turn can start. solves the problem of someone killing you while your not homeO.O

Zemljanin wrote:There is no suitable possibility to force the ban (since you can't detect a script). Although I've never played a freestyle game and I never even meant to play one, I'll be kind of sorry to see it literally dead...

On the other side, it will be fun to make bets about players from the top - who'll have enough integrity to keep playing sequential while gradually sinking toward fifth page...

Yeah, I considered that earlier. All you would have to do is report a game where someone conquered, say, 4 territories in 2 seconds (again, I don't have CM, but I don't think these speeds are possible even with that). Either that or an instance where someone takes their turn in three seconds. I think it would be obvious when it was being used.

I think the obvious solution is to remove scoring from freestyle games.

I don't think anyone with clickable maps can justifiedly object to this. If you're happy to have the advantage over people using clickies, then same rules should let people have the advantage over you using scripties.

Solution? Ban both.