Conquer Club

In live chat last night, a user came in spurting bigotry-laced comments that would be demeaning to homosexual people if any had happened to be there when he was on. After giving my side to the Bigotry topic started by jiminski and reading everything everyone had written, I have come to learn that bigotry offenses have harsher penalties. Three or four times last night, this user (who ironically posted often in the Bigotry thread) made many unruly comments and received multiple warnings. He was given his final warning and yet again, made another comment, but killmanic "didn't see it," although he was a large part of the conversation, debating me on another topic which is unimportant right now. Only after did I point it out did he "kick" him from live chat.

But throughout this whole situation, when this user was making these comments, I asked killmanic why he was given multiple warnings b/c I thought Bigotry offenses were a more serious situation, therefore given steeper penalties. My response? "Chat modding is different than forum modding."

I am relatively new here, so I still don't have a handle on how everything works around here. But is this true? That 36 page thread with many moderators commenting in it means nothing when it comes to live chat? It's okay to make these comments now as long as you're in live chat?

bjc23 wrote:In live chat last night, a user came in spurting bigotry-laced comments that would be demeaning to homosexual people if any had happened to be there when he was on. After giving my side to the Bigotry topic started by jiminski and reading everything and giving my two cents, I have come to learn that bigotry offenses have harsher penalties. Three or four times last night, this user (who ironically posted often in the Bigotry thread) made many unruly comments and received multiple warnings. He was given his final warning and yet again, made another comment, but killmanic "didn't see it," although he was a large part of the conversation, debating me on another topic which is unimportant right now. Only after did I point it out did he "kick" him from live chat.

But throughout this whole situation, when this user was making these comments, I asked killmanic why he was given multiple warnings b/c I thought Bigotry offenses were a more serious situation, therefore given steeper penalties. My response? "Chat modding is different than forum modding."

I am relatively new here, so I still don't have a handle on how everything works around here. But is this true? That 36 page thread with many moderators commenting in it means nothing when it comes to live chat? It's okay to make these comments now as long as you're in live chat?

Well, if it was OK to make those comments as you suggest, I doubt he would have been given multiple warnings and kicked out of live chat. It obviously is moderated differently, Im sure for a number of reasons, but the user was warned and kicked out of chat. How does that suggest its OK?

Also, a screen shot is necessary here, because without it, its anybody's guess as to what was said, and if it was actually bigotry, so any insinuation of incorrect moderation is just baseless at this point, especially since the player was repeatedly warned, kicked out, and probably warned by PM that he better not do it again.

Further, since your "new" perhaps you haven't spent enough time in live chat to know how easy it is to "didnt see it" when youre "debating me on another topic" even if you're a moderator, but it seems your trying to imply some lying on Killmaniac's part, which is pretty ridiculous, as you point out yourself that you were engaging him with some other topic...

I myself dont use chat very much, but if its busy, as Im sure you know, its very easy not to see everything. I myself dont even read anyone's comments if im in a conversation...especially a "debate" with someone else and in this case, obviously someone who is biased against killmaniac. Your implication is again, ridiculous, and your objective here is very clear.

Luckily, you provided all the answers to your loaded questions yourself.

you should have gotten a screen shot. and from my own experiences, many of the mods don't truly understand bigotry and how it truly affects individuals. thankfully the new guidelines are going to help that. you may want to post a suggestion in suggs and buggs or within the bigotry thread or in a PM to andy, to extend the guidelines to live chat.-0

Live chat has always been modded a little differently. As owen said, make a thread about suggs and bugs about this to extend it to live chat.

Without screenshot evidence, how do you all know that the new bigotry guidelines weren't being applied in that Live Chat time? Maybe the user was just flaming, and not using bigotry. Not every claim of bigotry is in fact that.

And yes, Live Chat is always a different beast to moderate than the forums. It's much more temporary in nature, and with the way people behave in there, if someone is "wrongly" kicked, the whole room explodes in mutiny. So the mods have to make sure they are correct before kicking. This appears to be a case where a user things someone was being a bigot and the mod either didn't see it or disagreed (both within the mod's discretion).

Chat is also fundamentally different than posts. Posts do not go away, so time is available to decide upon an action. With live chat, its real-time, so obviously you cant expect someone to immediately be able to detect, define, and punish all forms of bigotry instantaneously or perfectly. Certainly some cases can be, but theres no way or reason to expect all situations to be handled in real time with exact perfection. Its real time nature precludes it, which is why chat and forum is moderated differently. They are different.

Night Strike wrote:Without screenshot evidence, how do you all know that the new bigotry guidelines weren't being applied in that Live Chat time? Maybe the user was just flaming, and not using bigotry. Not every claim of bigotry is in fact that.

except the poster stated the offender was kicked for bigotry when it was pointed out to killmanic that he was being given multiple warnings for it... ahem... and yeah, not everything is bigotry, but maybe the mods need a refresher from andy on how to handle this stuff since we have new guidelines and a few still seem wary of the fact that bigotry exists within this day and age... can't blame homophobia on affirmative action and sensitive people of colour...-0

owenshooter wrote:

Night Strike wrote:Without screenshot evidence, how do you all know that the new bigotry guidelines weren't being applied in that Live Chat time? Maybe the user was just flaming, and not using bigotry. Not every claim of bigotry is in fact that.

except the poster stated the offender was kicked for bigotry when it was pointed out to killmanic...-0

So what's the complaint? And why does there need to be a suggestion thread about extending it to Live Chat if, by his own admission, it's how things were handled?

Night Strike wrote:

owenshooter wrote:

Night Strike wrote:Without screenshot evidence, how do you all know that the new bigotry guidelines weren't being applied in that Live Chat time? Maybe the user was just flaming, and not using bigotry. Not every claim of bigotry is in fact that.

except the poster stated the offender was kicked for bigotry when it was pointed out to killmanic...-0

So what's the complaint? And why does there need to be a suggestion thread about extending it to Live Chat if, by his own admission, it's how things were handled?

because he felt nothing was done until he pointed it out to the mod. as in the situation was going entirely too far. as in, there are new guidelines and he felt the offender had gone well beyond what would merit some sort of action, due to his multiple warnings. how is that so hard to understand? it is very interesting in the least. especially because of how live chat is moderated. i mean, how many times can someone get a warning in live chat for bigotry before something substantial happens to them? and what happened to the offender? was he simply kicked for the night? is he out of live chat for an extended stay? i think the OP should put upee a suggestion thread on a clear cut guideline for live chat. why is that such a a bad thing, NS? you still don't seem to understand just how negative an effect bigotry has on members here on CC...-0

Owen, read the community guidelines. The live chat section already has something regarding bigotry (and it sounds pretty clear cut to me...I'm not sure where somebody could be mistaken by what is said).

Community Guidelines wrote:Bigotry: Not tolerated at all; no forms of bigotry allowed in live chat or the forums.

The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:Owen, read the community guidelines. The live chat section already has something regarding bigotry (and it sounds pretty clear cut to me...I'm not sure where somebody could be mistaken by what is said).

Community Guidelines wrote:Bigotry: Not tolerated at all; no forms of bigotry allowed in live chat or the forums.

exactly... sooo, why was the user given multiple warnings? just asking... i didn't see it, there aren't any screen shots, etc.. just seems with the new guidelines for the forums, that there would be a sound effort to enforce the guidelines for all the interactive portions of the site when it comes to bigotry. the chat guidelines as you posted them, are exactly as the forum guidelines were. and they seem to be enforced as the old guidelines in the forums were, arbitrarily and rarely at all, if at all... perhaps Live Chat needs a revamped ENFORCEMENT GUIDELINE like the forums recently received. sure, the guidelines are clear, but are they clearly enforced?

i think the OP is just looking for consistency, but i can't speak for him. i'm sure killmanic did the right thing, but again, how many warnings are given in live chat if there is zero tolerance? zero tolerance doesn't scream multiple warnings to me.. anyway.. .good point by the op, and it is interesting... if the OP is truly upset, he should start a thread in suggestions to try and get a clear set of enforcement guidelines like andy just delivered from the mountain top to the forums...-0

The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:Owen, read the community guidelines. The live chat section already has something regarding bigotry (and it sounds pretty clear cut to me...I'm not sure where somebody could be mistaken by what is said).

Community Guidelines wrote:Bigotry: Not tolerated at all; no forms of bigotry allowed in live chat or the forums.

The complaint is that since the way mods deal with it was changed, we're wondering whether it changed for live-chat too.

It's a request for a clarification on the enforcement fo the rules, not the rules themselves.

Lets get this story straight.

1. You came in ranting about how you were unfairly banned, and you wanted a public apology.
2. Killmanic ask you to cool it about 5 or 6 times.
3. He then proceeded to tell you that you should be glad they went back and cleared you. Mistakes happen and to get over it and move on.
4. You still continued to be a pain in the ass.
5. Killmanic finally had enough of you and kicked you.
6. You came back in to do the same thing as before and also ranting on how killmanic was out of line and you would report him for mod abuse.

You were just not a pleasant person to be around. Kill did everything right.

PS. Nobody made racial remarks during this time or sexual remarks..

AAFitz,

First off, let me just say my intention was NOT to attack anyone (killmanic specifically) with my beginning post. What would have been better was just to say "a moderator" instead of actually killmanic's name, so I apologize for that, but what's done is done.

My point was to ask if moderating in the live chat really IS different than moderating in the forums. According to The Fuzzy Pengui who stated, "Bigotry: Not tolerated at all; no forms of bigotry allowed in live chat or the forums," moderating appears that moderating shouldn't be different at all between the two, at least when it comes to bigotry. So it would make sense that something would have been done after the FIRST warning because the punishments are apparently now different for bigotry comments than other offenses. What happened was he was only "kicked" from the live chat and immediately, he came back (and slyly made a couple more comments...)

Obviously it turned out that it wasn't okay for him to make these comments, but the new rules to bigotry offenses were clearly not followed, so I decided to make this thread questioning if moderating is supposed to be different in live chat than in the forums.

I don't want to, nor care to argue people's opinions of killmanic's moderating. I'm sure it's fine, considering he is still a moderator. I was only questioning the actual moderating and if the new bigotry rules were actually going to be followed. The live chat wasn't very busy, he saw the comments.

Bruceswar wrote:Lets get this story straight.

1. You came in ranting about how you were unfairly banned, and you wanted a public apology.
2. Killmanic ask you to cool it about 5 or 6 times.
3. He then proceeded to tell you that you should be glad they went back and cleared you. Mistakes happen and to get over it and move on.
4. You still continued to be a pain in the ass.
5. Killmanic finally had enough of you and kicked you.
6. You came back in to do the same thing as before and also ranting on how killmanic was out of line and you would report him for mod abuse.

You were just not a pleasant person to be around. Kill did everything right.

PS. Nobody made racial remarks during this time or sexual remarks..

1. I asked exactly this: "Wouldn't it make sense for an apology for being mistakenly banned?"
2. I was cool about it, I made my case, he made his.
3. I debated that point. Forgive and forget appeared to be how things are run here. I asked, "so I should simply be happy that I've been allowed to play again, instead of being incredulous that I was not allowed to participate on the site for a week or two b/c of a mistake."
4. Sorry.
5. I asked to speak to him privately, and asked questions. He said I was trying to pick a fight and did not answer me.
6. I did not. That same user making the bigoted comments tried to get me to continue with it. I told him no.

If you say so

02:54:51 ‹bjc23› i'm here, fagfuucker

yeah, pity no-ones around to moderate but I think you are the ones with the issues mate,

By the way I would like to note I am nothing to do with the original situation in this thread, and just had issues with 'bjc' tonight. I have no idea who the original poster in this thread is referring to.

Why is the rest all crossed out? (spray-painted out) To be able to take disciplinary action, I would sort of like to see what both sides were saying, however many people were talking. It just seems to incriminate you...if anyone has a clean screenshot of this conversation please send it to me in a PM.

nagerous wrote:By the way I would like to note I am nothing to do with the original situation in this thread, and just had issues with 'bjc' tonight. I have no idea who the original poster in this thread is referring to.

Dude.

Get Windows 7. I liked Vista too, but Win7 is leaps and bounds beyond it.

n00blet wrote:

nagerous wrote:By the way I would like to note I am nothing to do with the original situation in this thread, and just had issues with 'bjc' tonight. I have no idea who the original poster in this thread is referring to.

Dude.

Get Windows 7. I liked Vista too, but Win7 is leaps and bounds beyond it.

Hmmm maybe, check out the time in the bottom right corner too

InsomniaRed wrote:Why is the rest all crossed out? (spray-painted out) To be able to take disciplinary action, I would sort of like to see what both sides were saying, however many people were talking. It just seems to incriminate you...if anyone has a clean screenshot of this conversation please send it to me in a PM.

Yep, I flamed back when provoked in an argument caused by the Original Poster, I didn't resort to bigotry but I wanted to point out the hypocrisy of the original poster. I spray painted because I was frankly embarrassed by my actions, whether they were exasperated by intoxication or not. If self admittance results in a warning then fair enough.

nagerous just won the thread.

bjc23 wrote:AAFitz,

First off, let me just say my intention was NOT to attack anyone (killmanic specifically) with my beginning post. What would have been better was just to say "a moderator" instead of actually killmanic's name, so I apologize for that, but what's done is done.

My point was to ask if moderating in the live chat really IS different than moderating in the forums. According to The Fuzzy Pengui who stated, "Bigotry: Not tolerated at all; no forms of bigotry allowed in live chat or the forums," moderating appears that moderating shouldn't be different at all between the two, at least when it comes to bigotry. So it would make sense that something would have been done after the FIRST warning because the punishments are apparently now different for bigotry comments than other offenses. What happened was he was only "kicked" from the live chat and immediately, he came back (and slyly made a couple more comments...)

Obviously it turned out that it wasn't okay for him to make these comments, but the new rules to bigotry offenses were clearly not followed, so I decided to make this thread questioning if moderating is supposed to be different in live chat than in the forums.

I don't want to, nor care to argue people's opinions of killmanic's moderating. I'm sure it's fine, considering he is still a moderator. I was only questioning the actual moderating and if the new bigotry rules were actually going to be followed. The live chat wasn't very busy, he saw the comments.

Well, bjc, I dont believe you. Your post is still there, and it doesnt take much to read between the lines. Further, as it was pointed out, you were annoyed that you got kicked by killmaniac. To suggest this had nothing to do with this is , and that it was just coincidental timing is ridiculous, and certainly not believable.

If you further think that you are just here to champion a cause, or help us define chat policies, with no alterior motives, I would say that once again. I simply dont believe it. I realize it might be true, but in my opinion you are just lying.

As far as the situation goes, once again, I will point out that live chat happens "live" the forum posts last forever until changed. So, immediate action on bigotry does not mean immediate such as a trip wire. It means enough time for the moderator to process that it is bigotry, and is a kickable form of it. With the forums, there is plenty of time for this, because it is not live chat. But if someone is engaging a mod on another subject, and they are distracted, to expect them to read all statements, and make an instantaneous decision, and expect it to be perfect every time is ridiculous.

You may be telling the truth. You may even be correct. Im just simply stating that from what Ive seen, I dont believe you, and think you are at least exaggerating, and possibly even directly lying. Its obvious to all its a vindictive act, even if you are 100% correct.

This is nothing personal against you. Im simply telling you what I think, based on everything youve said, and how youve said it. You mentioned the other person slyly making comments, and I believe that is exactly what you are doing here. The fact that you are denying it makes it even worse in my opinion. I would suggest you read your initial post again, and maybe you will see how biased it actually is. Perhaps it was just subconsciously so, but it seems to be pretty blatent to me, and others that are posting.

In any case, your question has been answered repeatedly from what I can see here.

ps. sometimes trolling is done for the purposes of good, not evil. An enhanced interrogation technique, if you will.