Conquer Club

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:30 pm**

We all know the dice are random, as lackattack purchases special lists from a guy wearing a tin-foil hat. But what isn't random is:

WHICH PLAYER GOES FIRST!!!

And do you know why? Because the starting player in a game is chosen by the much maligned mt_rand() function!

Why is this bad, you ask? Well, a lot of you don't know how the mt_rand() function works, but it is dastardly, wicked, and intolerably un-random! It uses the sly and crafty Mersenne Twister, a pseudorandom number generator that plans on ruling the entire world! Just look at these statistics:

It has a period of 2^19937 - 1. That means, it repeats itself roughly once every 4.3 centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion centillion times, far too often for dice, but perfectly okay for starting players apparently!
It has a very high order of dimensional equidistribution. This means that amongst a million 2 player games, each player should start roughly 500000 times. Terrible, just terrible I tells ya! Imagine if the dice were subject to that sort of equidistribution!
There is negligible correlation between successive values in the output sequence. NEGLIGIBLE! NOT ZERO! NEGLIGIBLE!
It passes the Diehard tests. This might sound like a good thing, but guess what people
ALAN RICKMAN PASSED THE DIEHARD TESTS!*
*Apart from that last one where he died falling off the ledge of the building.

This should not, nay, WILL not be tolerated by the CC community any longer. Mods, admin, Presidents, whoever is listening...

THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED

I don't know how many games I've lost due to not going first, but I won't take it any longer, I expect to go first in EVERY SINGLE GAME, it is my cash-given right as a fully paying customer. Do what you must, measure static in the air, hire aliens to count asteroids, follow ants as they make their trails, just

FIX THE DICE! PLAYER WHO GOES FIRST!

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:45 pm**

e_i_pi wrote:I expect to go first in EVERY SINGLE GAME

Then it still wouldn't be random.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:48 pm**

john9blue wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:I expect to go first in EVERY SINGLE GAME

Then it still wouldn't be random.

WHOOSH!

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:22 pm**

Just be the last person to join a freestlye game and chances are you'll go first.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:23 pm**

e_i_pi wrote:
john9blue wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:I expect to go first in EVERY SINGLE GAME

Then it still wouldn't be random.

WHOOSH!

I'll take your WHOOSH! and raise you a PHSWOOOSH!
Is it a touch drafty round your ears john9blue?

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:24 pm**

Yeah, good idea.

Lackattack already thought out the ways and means of working around the benefit/disadvantage of play first/not playing first...he invented freestyle (to the best of my knowledge).

Before everyone starts telling me that they don't want to play freestyle because they'll lose and that it's unfair, I'll admit that I've lost a lot of games due to being (near) last in the play order...I do actually support the idea that this should be fixed.

Does anyone happen to know how the play order is actually decided ??

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:30 pm**

It's blowin a hurricane folks!!

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:50 pm**

I think there may be problems with the dice and I find this parody to be entirely irrelevant. Therefore I point out a single inconsistency to make sure nobody takes it seriously. Notice the winking smiley. Whoosh indeed. :lol:

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:15 pm**

I am completely against this demand. I've spent the best part of 3 years figuring our a way to go first in more than 85% of my sequential 1v1 games. If the method of determining who goes first is altered, I will need to start all over again, and I don't think I care enough to spend another 3 years getting back to where I am now.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:08 pm**

Simple solution. Create a multi, start 1v1 games, join them with both you screen names and play against yourself. You are guaranteed to go first.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:09 pm**

Quick, the baby has lost her bottle, change the site for her now!

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:01 am**

Thanks e_i_pi! I needed a good laugh!

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:22 am**

Current people with IQ > 100
john9blue (barely)
finchboy
Timminz
Artimis

Current people with IQ < 100
Crazyirishman
ManBungalow
Evil Semp
Kotaro

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:42 am**

What's a dice?

(Hopefully I made the second list!)

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:45 am**

I think we should ask Robert Loggia, he might know. He is much more reliable than Alan Rickman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIzRqDOSZo

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:14 am**

I like the dice

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:36 am**

e_i_pi wrote:Current people with IQ > 100
john9blue (barely)
finchboy
Timminz
Artimis

Current people with IQ < 100
Crazyirishman
ManBungalow
Evil Semp
Kotaro

Current people starting useless threads in GD so they can get their post count up:
Blitzaholic
e_i_pi

Fix'd mate.

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:52 am**

e_i_pi wrote:Current people with IQ > 100
john9blue
finchboy
Timminz
Artimis

Current people with IQ < 100
Crazyirishman
ManBungalow
Evil Semp
Kotaro

Current people who think that a single number can accurately measure the most complex structure in the universe (the human brain) and also that a single opinion can accurately indicate this number:
e_i_pi

Fixed again.

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:53 am**

I stand corrected

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:06 am**

How about we roll the dice to see who places their armies first for a happy medium. Like the actual fucking game was meant to be played! I would never allow myself to endure some of these ridiculous drops. This is the one change that would in turn bring us all together in a giant circle of love. *splooges in pants just thinking about it*

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:22 am**

King_Herpes wrote:How about we roll the dice to see who places their armies first for a happy medium.

Now which dice would those be...the random set EIPI talks about?
(as for placing the armies, I have never understood why choosing the territs turn and turn about as an option has never been put forward...oh yes, sorry, it would require some real coding work to be done....forget that then)

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:46 am**

Fruitcake wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:How about we roll the dice to see who places their armies first for a happy medium.

Now which dice would those be...the random set EIPI talks about?
(as for placing the armies, I have never understood why choosing the territs turn and turn about as an option has never been put forward...oh yes, sorry, it would require some real coding work to be done....forget that then)

i would be a fan of that as a feature!

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:01 am**

King_Herpes wrote:How about we roll the dice to see who places their armies first for a happy medium. Like the actual fucking game was meant to be played! I would never allow myself to endure some of these ridiculous drops. This is the one change that would in turn bring us all together in a giant circle of love. *splooges in pants just thinking about it*

Placing armies is a really good suggestion, and yes, just like how the board game clone of CC is played.
Surely someone has suggested this already but maybe worth revisiting.

Unfortunately this would make the board game clone too similar to CC and it's not worth giving small companies like that unnecessary trouble in redesigning a game that has been around for ages.

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:04 am**

Yeah, I would have put forth the suggestion a few months after I discovered the forums but shortly after I learned that that part of the forum is just a mirage. If there are any uber-optimists out there reading this, feel free to patent the idea as your own and make billions. It should at the very least be another option when making a game to have an automatic/random/shit drop or a systematic/decided/fair one.

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:09 am**

King_Herpes wrote:Yeah, I would have put forth the suggestion a few months after I discovered the forums but shortly after I learned that that part of the forum is just a mirage. If there are any uber-optimists out there reading this, feel free to patent the idea as your own and make billions. It should at the very least be another option when making a game to have an automatic/random/shit drop or a systematic/decided/fair one.

What might work is a different system for placing armies. It can't be exactly the same as the little know board game clone of CC - CC is too big to need to copy ideas from small rejects from Dragon's Den.

Conquer Club

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