Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[samgrossy]

Vote Count

Jak (5) ~ shaggy, pcm, aage, cm5, vodean
Vodean (3) ~ lsu, jonty, saf

25 alive 13 to lynch

Chap and Nag have not posted yet this week, they have been prodded and will be replaced in 24 hours as I mentioned in the last scene. Due to the likely replacements I am going to push back the deadline a touch. Deadline will be 10 days from now.

I think my vote is on Jak, too.

[chapcrap]

One more thing... I never got prodded. So, I'm not sure if you were just posting that ahead of time or never actually sent me something. Just saying that because I didn't want the same thing to happen to nag in case he was supposed to receive a prod.

[edocsil]

One more thing... I never got prodded. So, I'm not sure if you were just posting that ahead of time or never actually sent me something. Just saying that because I didn't want the same thing to happen to nag in case he was supposed to receive a prod.

Yup, IRL happened and the prods didn't get out, I had typed the VC and had to run. Out for real now

[jak111]

Also, jak, you're in luck, Jesus accepts anyone!

When I die, I'll send a little ghost message in a bottle back to ya telling you how that one goes

Right now, nothing more to add, no one is bringing much more new to the table for me to add onto besides that new vote count.

Victor is confirmed as stolen and Illiad not 100% sure yet what happened there.

[crazymilkshake5]

One more thing... I never got prodded. So, I'm not sure if you were just posting that ahead of time or never actually sent me something. Just saying that because I didn't want the same thing to happen to nag in case he was supposed to receive a prod.

Yup, IRL happened and the prods didn't get out, I had typed the VC and had to run. Out for real now

fun stuff

[aage]

Why are we assuming there's two vote stealers atm? We haven't even tested to see if Illiad/VS is missing a/their vote. Do you got insider information we should know about about what's happening to Illiad's claim of missing a vote?

We're not. There's you, who claims to block votes, so that would be a vote blocker. Iliad stated that his vote was "stolen", so I assume that someone did steal his vote. Whether his vote was not stolen but blocked would just be a poor phrasing on Iliad's part, but still renders the point I made valid. Two voteblockers in one team plus a doublevoter is too much.

~Never claimed to block votes~ re-read.

I have.

Though I think I have some information from last night as to who is what... Victor, make a vote, Iiliad, use both your votes, you'll both retract them once they are tested but for now I want to see who is missing their vote. Iiliad said he is, but Victor is the one who should be missing his, so I want to see if there's someone lying or if there's another person who can affect votes.

If you don't block votes, explain how you knew about Victor missing his vote two pages before Victor confirmed that?

[jak111]

If you don't block votes, explain how you knew about Victor missing his vote two pages before Victor confirmed that?

You.. are sooo far behind bud.. It's been confirmed that I stole his vote.

[Hensow]

Jak why did you not claim to steal votes when you told aage that you never claimed to block votes.

[nagerous]

One more thing... I never got prodded. So, I'm not sure if you were just posting that ahead of time or never actually sent me something. Just saying that because I didn't want the same thing to happen to nag in case he was supposed to receive a prod.

Thanks, prod received. I will read up and post my thoughts.

Tomorrow

[pancakemix]

If you don't block votes, explain how you knew about Victor missing his vote two pages before Victor confirmed that?

You.. are sooo far behind bud.. It's been confirmed that I stole his vote.

So... you block votes?

[samgrossy]

If you don't block votes, explain how you knew about Victor missing his vote two pages before Victor confirmed that?

You.. are sooo far behind bud.. It's been confirmed that I stole his vote.

It seems that you are quibbling over symantics here, Jak. So you don't block votes, you steal them. Either way, you're screwing around with peoples votes. This just seems so scummy. Instead of explaining that you are a vote stealer, you give him a raft of crap about not keeping up.

I'm glad I haven't changed my vote.

[jak111]

If you don't block votes, explain how you knew about Victor missing his vote two pages before Victor confirmed that?

You.. are sooo far behind bud.. It's been confirmed that I stole his vote.

It seems that you are quibbling over symantics here, Jak. So you don't block votes, you steal them. Either way, you're screwing around with peoples votes. This just seems so scummy. Instead of explaining that you are a vote stealer, you give him a raft of crap about not keeping up.

I'm glad I haven't changed my vote.

Victor is confirmed as stolen and Illiad not 100% sure yet what happened there.

Just pointing out what I already said so I did explain myself, many times. Right now I think you're just trying to paint me as scum because you know full well my role is mostly town in most balanced games (and Edoc is a good balancer from what I've seen).

Which with the top statement leads me to believe you're here to hinder town rather than help it.

There's a big difference between blocking and stealing votes. One makes the vote completely gone from the day phase, the other it's still there but in another person's control, semantics are powerful in mafia. Like a blocker for instance, do they fully roleblock their target, do they only block certain things, etc. If someone just claimed blocker, blocking what? Blocking incoming actions, outgoing actions? What? Semantics are valuable.

No Pancake, I do not block votes (Read above paragraph).

For better proof of semantics mattering, Illiad claims his vote is gone, I don't have it which either means someone else does or that vote WAS blocked. Sorry for going on a rant, but I don't think Sam is new enough to get away with that poor logic of voting someone, just saying.

Also I can prove my role, which is further reason for mafia to not want me around.

[samgrossy]

... but I don't think Sam is new enough to get away with that poor logic of voting someone, just saying.

Also I can prove my role, which is further reason for mafia to not want me around.

Umm, Just so everyone knows, my vote on you started when you did your "no lynch" test. It's been there from then, and I keep finding things that frame you as scummy. I think that this early in the game, it's stupid to argue over the semantics. You can screw with votes, I thought it should have been over with. You keep it alive. HMMM...

I don't think Jak is new enough to accuse me of being that stupid. Just saying.

[pancakemix]

Just pointing out what I already said so I did explain myself, many times. Right now I think you're just trying to paint me as scum because you know full well my role is mostly town in most balanced games (and Edoc is a good balancer from what I've seen).

Which with the top statement leads me to believe you're here to hinder town rather than help it.

There's a big difference between blocking and stealing votes. One makes the vote completely gone from the day phase, the other it's still there but in another person's control, semantics are powerful in mafia. Like a blocker for instance, do they fully roleblock their target, do they only block certain things, etc. If someone just claimed blocker, blocking what? Blocking incoming actions, outgoing actions? What? Semantics are valuable.

No Pancake, I do not block votes (Read above paragraph).

For better proof of semantics mattering, Illiad claims his vote is gone, I don't have it which either means someone else does or that vote WAS blocked. Sorry for going on a rant, but I don't think Sam is new enough to get away with that poor logic of voting someone, just saying.

Also I can prove my role, which is further reason for mafia to not want me around.

Or it could be you're just arguing semantics. Which is fucking annoying and not at all helpful.

What the f*ck does it matter? He's blocked from voting. However you want to slice it, that's how it is.

Actually, that has zero relevance to semantics mattering. It just means someone other than you is fucking with votes.

Don't recall anyone doubting you. Seems like you're jumping the gun a bit on that, eh?

Colorful language brought to you by the need to vent about unrelated things. Horrible pun brought to you by the double meaning of "colorful language".

[aage]

If you don't block votes, explain how you knew about Victor missing his vote two pages before Victor confirmed that?

You.. are sooo far behind bud.. It's been confirmed that I stole his vote.

Okay. First of all, you could've mentioned that when I asked this very question on page 21,thank you very much. Secondly, where was this confirmed? It's not that I doubt you, but since we're arguing about bullshit anyway... Thirdly, there appears to be someone with the same ability as you. I suspect there's some kind of Role Copier at work here, since putting two of the same roles in the game is just boring. If there are two of the same, I suspect your counterpart is on the other team.

[jonty125]

Steal/Block its all the same jak, when regarding votes, isn't it?

[vodean]

Steal/Block its all the same jak, when regarding votes, isn't it?

its different for him, the same for us.

[jak111]

Steal/Block its all the same jak, when regarding votes, isn't it?

its different for him, the same for us.

I look at a block as it's gone, not there. I look at a steal as in it's there but the person can't use it because someone else has it instead.

I suspect there's some kind of Role Copier at work here, since putting two of the same roles in the game is just boring. If there are two of the same, I suspect your counterpart is on the other team.

A role copier would be interesting but I wonder how its mechanics would work. Would they copy my role and THEN use it? Or would they copy my role and use it at the same time without knowing the effects of it until later.

One sounds like a townish role like Inventor, which they are using roles but don't know what they do.

The other sounds like mafia, where they could decide who to use it on.

I find it odd though that Illiad is missing his vote though, because I was thinking of taking it in the night and get 3 votes XD but of course I checked before I did, and without confirming anything, I would not have two votes, so I decided to leave it in the dust and take Victors whom's vote could be useful, since I didn't see him use it too much yesterday It's a weird coincidence that Illiad is missing his vote though after my thought of taking it. Obviously someone else had a similar idea. Which would lead me to another question... if I DID take Illiad's vote, who would have it? Me? Or the other person?

But for now, I think it will be safe to say that if the other person doesn't step forward, we can assume that they are anti-town.

Also, to answer Aage, I already mentioned it that I stole his vote, that is what I mean by it was confirmed when you asked.

Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)

[samgrossy]

Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)

I know I keep hammering Jak here, but it seems no one is telling me that I am wrong (or right) here.

To me, this is the third scummy thing that Jak has done today. Now he is asking for people to claim in, what is essentially, the first day since there was no lynch yesterday and no nightkill. There isn't really any pressure on anyone to do so, and I think he is hiding his intent as "Let's try to figure this out" when underneath it all it seems like "Let's give scum a target at night"

Someone want to add something to my discussion, except for maybe Jak?

[aage]

Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)

I know I keep hammering Jak here, but it seems no one is telling me that I am wrong (or right) here.

To me, this is the third scummy thing that Jak has done today. Now he is asking for people to claim in, what is essentially, the first day since there was no lynch yesterday and no nightkill. There isn't really any pressure on anyone to do so, and I think he is hiding his intent as "Let's try to figure this out" when underneath it all it seems like "Let's give scum a target at night"

Someone want to add something to my discussion, except for maybe Jak?

Scum already has three targets for tonight, I doubt that is Jak's intention.

[Victor Sullivan]

*sigh* So what is our game plan as of right now? It seems like this has just been meaningless jibbery-jabbery honky-tonk.

-Sully

[aage]

*sigh* So what is our game plan as of right now? It seems like this has just been meaningless jibbery-jabbery honky-tonk.

-Sully

I like how you think this is a meaningful contribution. People were actually discussing things, fyi. Please point me to that post where you made your own case.
Still you have a point I guess. Since the argument against Jak died out there isn't much left to discuss it seems.

[samgrossy]

*sigh* So what is our game plan as of right now? It seems like this has just been meaningless jibbery-jabbery honky-tonk.

-Sully

I think that I have really been trying to create some discussion on Jak. He has done some things that I thought scummy, I pointed them out, and am trying to get discussion. Believe it or not, it was working. Someone responded to me with a counter point. Are you skimming? I think that you aren't really reading the posts if you think that my arguments have been jibbery-jabbery honky-tonk.

FoS SULLY

[/]

well, I don't like how jak has been jumping to a hundred conclusions a page, "William of York" MUST be an angel, you know YORK, that part of England populated by Angels...
Then Humans MUST be cult
Then oh wait, I'm human? ANGELS MUST BE CULT!
I'm seriously not putting much faith in jak at this point of the game...
However, his claim does at the very least make sense in a research flavor sense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_York
^^please read this to see if you concur.
I'm more interested in Iliad's claim at this point, he still refuses to confirm his claim of "Saint Elisabeth" with any sort of background, despite my repeated inquiry. (if you don't know, ask edoc...)
He has been missing, but HAS logged on today.
Plus, a doublevoter and a vote stealer, I could see one or the other being scum.
Vote illy

[aage]

well, I don't like how jak has been jumping to a hundred conclusions a page, "William of York" MUST be an angel, you know YORK, that part of England populated by Angels...
Then Humans MUST be cult
Then oh wait, I'm human? ANGELS MUST BE CULT!
I'm seriously not putting much faith in jak at this point of the game...
However, his claim does at the very least make sense in a research flavor sense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_York
^^please read this to see if you concur.
I'm more interested in Iliad's claim at this point, he still refuses to confirm his claim of "Saint Elisabeth" with any sort of background, despite my repeated inquiry. (if you don't know, ask edoc...)
He has been missing, but HAS logged on today.
Plus, a doublevoter and a vote stealer, I could see one or the other being scum.
Vote illy

Already checked the page when he claimed it and reached the same conclusion. Right now I'm disregarding this as the general Jak-crap (I tend to cut slack with Jak and Vodean in the firs two rounds...) but keep my vote on him in lack of better targets. Iliad is obviously not posting, but if memory serves that's nothing new. Right now I'm more interested in the existence of two vote stealers than one doublevoter. An ???-vote is usually town aligned and it serves no purpose to kill what is probably an asset.