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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:03 pm
by DoomYoshi
strike wolf wrote:Honestly, I'd be more inclined to vote jak but this behavior is actually fairly par for the course from jak. Same thing happened in Psychology mafia. if Jak thinks you are scum, he won't shift from that position unless you've been 105% cleared and game facts are either twisted or ignored. if you happen to think that Jak is wrong in his position (particularly to the extent of voting him) well you're probably scum to.

I remain adamant about aage , I am 95% convinced he is scum. Which is more than I can say about the other cases on the board.


I agree with this, especially now that vodean flipped.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:07 pm
by DoomYoshi
Ok, last post for today. I skimmed most of day 3. Jak and Jgordon... thank God they are both dead. What a dumb misunderstanding.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:12 pm
by DRoZ
My "things going sour" was in reference to the growing distrust towards me, not a night kill possibility. If I recall correctly, there were 3 or so votes on me at the time. I suppose I could have rolled out the popular, "no guys seriously, I am important" but you and I both know I would have been asked to claim eventually, and my watcher status would have been known anyway. Not to mention, waiting till the last moment to claim never really gains much trust, it tends to look desperate. Look at what happened to jak... With the deadline approaching, my early claim allowed us to focus on a hopefully more fruitful search. Delaying that would not have benefitted the town in the slightest.

As for your doubts of my abilities, my watcher status has been corroborated by two other players.

As for you, all I have seen from your incessant posting is regurgitation of other peoples theories without bothering to check up and see if they hold water later. Here's an idea... buy a notepad, write down things that pique your interest and follow along to see their storylines progress, post your findings upon completion... Otherwise you are just creating more noise in a thread already chock-full of it. I appreciate you taking the time to dredge through all of this, but be conscious of the fact that you may be doing more harm than good.

As an aside, are you seriously trying to offer better gameplay tips to the scum?

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:27 am
by aage
DoomYoshi wrote:Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.
Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:34 am
by aage
aage wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.
Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

ebwop obviously referring to the "tracker"-part. We know he is a watcher.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:10 pm
by DoomYoshi
DRoZ wrote:Not to mention, waiting till the last moment to claim never really gains much trust, it tends to look desperate.

As for your doubts of my abilities, my watcher status has been corroborated by two other players.

As an aside, are you seriously trying to offer better gameplay tips to the scum?


Not true. Claiming before L-2 is scummy. I actually appreciate the MS meta more (claiming at L-1, but only if someone declares intent to hammer) but that's neither here nor there.

I didn't say I doubt your abilities. Mafia Watcher is a legitimate role.

Yea, it's how I figure out what mafia is up to.

aage wrote:
aage wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.
Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

ebwop obviously referring to the "tracker"-part. We know he is a watcher.


Lovo flipped tracker. Or do you not believe edoc?

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:12 pm
by DoomYoshi
Not this again...

I forgot one reply.

DRoZ wrote:
As for you, all I have seen from your incessant posting is regurgitation of other peoples theories without bothering to check up and see if they hold water later. Here's an idea... buy a notepad, write down things that pique your interest and follow along to see their storylines progress, post your findings upon completion... Otherwise you are just creating more noise in a thread already chock-full of it. I appreciate you taking the time to dredge through all of this, but be conscious of the fact that you may be doing more harm than good.



So the fact that Lovo flipped tracker and that makes it almost impossible for you to be a town watcher has been regurgitated? If you can quote where, I will unvote.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:33 pm
by aage
DoomYoshi wrote:
aage wrote:
aage wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.
Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

ebwop obviously referring to the "tracker"-part. We know he is a watcher.


Lovo flipped tracker. Or do you not believe edoc?

I thought you meant Droz was both... Though on 25 players I can't say I'm surprised both roles are there. There was mention of a cult in the Angel win condition, remember? And two town people were blocked last night, both investigative roles, so scum was probably behind it. I don't think it's such a superpower-combo as you make it look.

Besides, what would a mafia watcher gain from claiming to have been blocked? He could easily just give the results and leave out the bits that hurt his team. Unless you blocked him, of course...?
DoomYoshi wrote:Not this again...

I forgot one reply.

DRoZ wrote:
As for you, all I have seen from your incessant posting is regurgitation of other peoples theories without bothering to check up and see if they hold water later. Here's an idea... buy a notepad, write down things that pique your interest and follow along to see their storylines progress, post your findings upon completion... Otherwise you are just creating more noise in a thread already chock-full of it. I appreciate you taking the time to dredge through all of this, but be conscious of the fact that you may be doing more harm than good.



So the fact that Lovo flipped tracker and that makes it almost impossible for you to be a town watcher has been regurgitated? If you can quote where, I will unvote.
I don't think he was referring to that specific post, but rather to the other 5.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:57 pm
by strike wolf
aage wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
aage wrote:
aage wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.
Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

ebwop obviously referring to the "tracker"-part. We know he is a watcher.


Lovo flipped tracker. Or do you not believe edoc?

I thought you meant Droz was both... Though on 25 players I can't say I'm surprised both roles are there. There was mention of a cult in the Angel win condition, remember? And two town people were blocked last night, both investigative roles, so scum was probably behind it. I don't think it's such a superpower-combo as you make it look.

Besides, what would a mafia watcher gain from claiming to have been blocked? He could easily just give the results and leave out the bits that hurt his team. Unless you blocked him, of course...?


Flawed. Town could easily have blocked him, in which case it would be in his best interest not to make up a result.

DoomYoshi wrote:Not this again...

I forgot one reply.

DRoZ wrote:
As for you, all I have seen from your incessant posting is regurgitation of other peoples theories without bothering to check up and see if they hold water later. Here's an idea... buy a notepad, write down things that pique your interest and follow along to see their storylines progress, post your findings upon completion... Otherwise you are just creating more noise in a thread already chock-full of it. I appreciate you taking the time to dredge through all of this, but be conscious of the fact that you may be doing more harm than good.



So the fact that Lovo flipped tracker and that makes it almost impossible for you to be a town watcher has been regurgitated? If you can quote where, I will unvote.


I would actually argue the Tracker/watcher part. In my time of having balance checks and playing, the strength of having a watcher and tracker seems to be something that mods don't always agree on.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D4 22/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:01 pm
by DoomYoshi
edocsil wrote:I was unimpressed at best by today. There was a lot shit getting thrown around that really had noting to do with the game. Keep it clean, keep your cases objective, and play a better game tomorrow.



Well said.
edocsil wrote:Hensow ~ Ignatius of Laconi Saint ~ Suicide Reviver has committed suicide
Gregwolf has returned to life


Well done. Some would argue to hold off on these things, but I 100% agree with this choice.
vodean wrote:
jgordon1111 wrote:
samgrossy wrote:
jgordon1111 wrote:
samgrossy wrote:We have to wait to hear from Chap before we can do anything official, but I think Vodean and JG are in our sights now.


No,Really. What a damn shock. you HAVE played this game before. But before you set your sights for dead accuracy,reread why I went after Jak and tell me I was wrong. He had way to much Crazy crap going on and I stand behind every point I made on him,except for the small problem of him not being scum.


So now we start the defense and deflection. And there isn't even any pressure on him yet.


If your starting a BW go ahead, I admitted to screwing the pooch with Jak. Thats what I stated in previous post in case you were not paying attention.

And why I quoted you so you might look at it,and think about what went down and how. Defense yes, I now have to admit I blew it,but Jak's game play helped out with that. So deflection not really.

Read it out again carefully, if you disagree with me then, it is what it is. A few things still not adding up but I pegged Jak on his play and I was wrong.

JG. look. we fucked up. lets try to move on without getting all defensive.
town, scum wouldnt out two of themselves to get one townie, would they? no. thats a ridiculous trade. especially to kill a vote stealer, and especially early on. so dont be so defensive, you are only making yourself worse. you are town, and i am not anti-town, so act like it. dont paint yourself as scummy (i know, strange coming from me). there is a better way to convince town that we are on their side than to point fingers all over the place. lets hear some results from last night, and then make a logical decision rather than an emotional one.


Vodean, this is honestly your best post ever. I don't mean the content, which is fine. The fact that you tie yourself to jgordon so effortlessly was brilliant though.

So day 4 was almost as bad as day 3. Really, why wouldn't droz say who he watched? He obviously watched chap. If he didn't, kill him. It's not a tough concept.

The problem here is that people are falling back on safe things to say. For example, vodean fell back on "waiting for night actions" and others are falling back on "dont tell people where you are going with your protective roles" without actually realizing that in this case it doesn't make any sense. I am going to start day 5 now.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:04 pm
by DoomYoshi
@aage: what? Where do we have proof that he was roleblocked?

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:10 pm
by DoomYoshi
@strike: a quick search of edoc's posts shows that he is in the "Watcher is OP" crowd with me.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:15 pm
by DoomYoshi
[quote="edocsil']
So some basics. Very small 7 - 11 man game. It has one cop and 2 or 3 scum. That is just how it works. A small game like this has 3 scum and perhaps a SK, a cop and a watcher/tracker (not both) a doc and perhaps a JOAT if there is a lot of town power. The other roles are lesser ones. It does not have 3 or 4 out of the town 11 roles being investigative unless this is a mafia with crazy powerful roles (read: impossible to balance) If you have vanilla masons like SG and I that is a strong indication of only middling town power, not a super investigation squad of tracker watcher cop. Mid sized games (20-25 players) MIGHT have a cop watcher tracker trio, while big games (30+) will almost certainly have the trio.
[/quote]

So he may have included a tracker with a watcher. I guess it isn't as cut and dry in his mind as it is mine. I still call bs on droz though, especially for the Day 4 dilly-dally.

Fluff my muffins.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D4 22/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:23 pm
by VioIet
DoomYoshi wrote:
So day 4 was almost as bad as day 3. Really, why wouldn't droz say who he watched? He obviously watched chap. If he didn't, kill him. It's not a tough concept.


I have a theory for this. It is something that popped into my mind immediately, once Droz stated that he didn't want to reveal what he saw.

He most likely did watch Chapcrap and saw someone visit Chap. However, he has no idea whether the visit was positive or negative. All he knows is that Chap didn't die from it. Droz likely wanted to wait and see whether something negative happened to chap (role-blocked, bus-driven, silenced, etc). Chap had been inactive the previous night & day, so there was no way to find out for sure. For instance, he may have been blocked. But since he didn't use his role, a block was fruitless anyway. Also, there would be no way to know, since he didn't try to use his role.

In short, if Droz doesn't know what the person did, he may not want to say anything just yet. It could just lead to unnecessarily attracting attention to a player before the proper time.

Just a theory, and I could be wrong, but that is my hunch so far.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:00 pm
by aage
DoomYoshi wrote:@aage: what? Where do we have proof that he was roleblocked?

Exactly. But if he wasn't roleblocked and he was mafia, it would be pretty strange to claim to have been roleblocked, as I explained in my previous post. Maybe I should have stressed that with "claimed to have been roleblocked" I meant "lie about being roleblocked", I thought that was obvious.
All we know is that his vote is gone, so obviously he wasn't lying about that. That lends some credibility to his roleblock-claim by my book.

@SW, see my reply to DY. I think you misinterpreted what I said.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:05 pm
by aage
aage wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:@aage: what? Where do we have proof that he was roleblocked?

Exactly. But if he wasn't roleblocked and he was mafia, it would be pretty strange to claim to have been roleblocked, as I explained in my previous post. Maybe I should have stressed that with "claimed to have been roleblocked" I meant "lie about being roleblocked", I thought that was obvious.
All we know is that his vote is gone, so obviously he wasn't lying about that. That lends some credibility to his roleblock-claim by my book.

@SW, see my reply to DY. I think you misinterpreted what I said.

ebwop

So following that reasoning, claiming to have been blocked if he were a mafia watcher whilst in fact he wasn't blocked would make no sense to do... hence we can conclude that either he is town and lying (which is okay, really, since he's town and I won't be voting him) or he is any alignment and was genuinely roleblocked, and therefore I see no reason to suspect him. Watcher is a pretty useful role to keep alive, and I'm not at all convinced that he must be scum.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:22 pm
by rishaed
Edoc can we get prod's on Nag and Safari?
And does anyone have some sort of viable information to work off of from last night?
From what I see
DroZ and Chap were blocked (no info)
JG was killed so another known role is gone preventing information from coming out
Gregwolf is a Universalmason so I think most of the information will be going in between him and his partner.
Other than that all other roles are unknown atm, and if we work off of Chap's initial list we have 3 anti townies there. Who do you think is best to start with, considering right now it is our best lead?

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:15 am
by edocsil
rishaed wrote:Edoc can we get prod's on Nag and Safari?
And does anyone have some sort of viable information to work off of from last night?
From what I see
DroZ and Chap were blocked (no info)
JG was killed so another known role is gone preventing information from coming out
Gregwolf is a Universalmason so I think most of the information will be going in between him and his partner.
Other than that all other roles are unknown atm, and if we work off of Chap's initial list we have 3 anti townies there. Who do you think is best to start with, considering right now it is our best lead?


Nag isn't playing anymore, but I'll nudge saf.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D4 22/25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:43 am
by jonty125
VioIet wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
So day 4 was almost as bad as day 3. Really, why wouldn't droz say who he watched? He obviously watched chap. If he didn't, kill him. It's not a tough concept.


I have a theory for this. It is something that popped into my mind immediately, once Droz stated that he didn't want to reveal what he saw.

He most likely did watch Chapcrap and saw someone visit Chap. However, he has no idea whether the visit was positive or negative. All he knows is that Chap didn't die from it. Droz likely wanted to wait and see whether something negative happened to chap (role-blocked, bus-driven, silenced, etc). Chap had been inactive the previous night & day, so there was no way to find out for sure. For instance, he may have been blocked. But since he didn't use his role, a block was fruitless anyway. Also, there would be no way to know, since he didn't try to use his role.

In short, if Droz doesn't know what the person did, he may not want to say anything just yet. It could just lead to unnecessarily attracting attention to a player before the proper time.

Just a theory, and I could be wrong, but that is my hunch so far.


That makes sense.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:06 pm
by NoSurvivors
rishaed wrote:Edoc can we get prod's on Nag and Safari?
And does anyone have some sort of viable information to work off of from last night?
From what I see
DroZ and Chap were blocked (no info)
JG was killed so another known role is gone preventing information from coming out
Gregwolf is a Universalmason so I think most of the information will be going in between him and his partner.
Other than that all other roles are unknown atm, and if we work off of Chap's initial list we have 3 anti townies there. Who do you think is best to start with, considering right now it is our best lead?


I suppose we must do some good old fashioned scum hunting! (Which I'm extraordinary at...... :lol:)

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D4 22/25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:43 pm
by DoomYoshi
DRoZ wrote:No one visited my target, but I would not feel comfortable naming who I watched.


Vio and chap. It doesn't make sense at all. Stop trying to obfuscate the issues here.

aage, I'm not sure what you mean. I think you are trying doubletalk to hide the fact that there is no proof that droz was actually roleblocked. Do you think that mafia can roleblock twice in one night?

The only thing that paints droz as even remotely town is that you (scummy num. 2) are defending him.

By the way, if I die tonight, I just want to say that I figured the mafia most likely has a flavor cop. Not going to elaborate on this, just thought it should be out there.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D4 22/25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:44 pm
by DoomYoshi
DoomYoshi wrote:
DRoZ wrote:No one visited my target, but I would not feel comfortable naming who I watched.


Vio and jonty. It doesn't make sense at all. Stop trying to obfuscate the issues here.

aage, I'm not sure what you mean. I think you are trying doubletalk to hide the fact that there is no proof that droz was actually roleblocked. Do you think that mafia can roleblock twice in one night?

The only thing that paints droz as even remotely town is that you (scummy num. 2) are defending him.

By the way, if I die tonight, I just want to say that I figured the mafia most likely has a flavor cop. Not going to elaborate on this, just thought it should be out there.


EBWOP: Either jonty or chap needs to change their avatar. I am sick of confusing them.

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:24 pm
by safariguy5
Apologies for the absence, it's Finals and Paper season right now.

Ok, I've thought about this long and hard, and given the current circumstances, I think the information I currently have is more useful out in the open than if I continued keeping it to myself.

I am Michael the Archangel, some of the Roman Catholics may call him Saint Michael the Archangel. Anyways, I'm a super JOAT, where I have regular kill, save, roleblock and investigate abilities, but I can use any as many times as I want. I'm still limited to 1 action a night.

I went back and reread my WC, and without quoting it too heavily, it seems to say that humans can be recruited by the demons or somebody, but I just need all demons to be dead. These humans don't need to be destroyed.

Now, I have done investigations every night.

Night 1: Sully- Innocent
Night 2: Com9- Innocent
Night 3: VioIet- Innocent
Night 4: Soundman- Guilty

So therefore, I will vote soundman

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D5 19/25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:33 pm
by DoomYoshi
Ok. So since we also have a cop, it makes it even less likely for there to be a watcher.

However,

unvote vote soundman

Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D4 22/25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:53 pm
by VioIet
DoomYoshi wrote:
DRoZ wrote:No one visited my target, but I would not feel comfortable naming who I watched.


Vio and chap. It doesn't make sense at all. Stop trying to obfuscate the issues here.



I actually think I'm pretty right on about my last post. But it's okay; I will drop the issue for the rest of Day Five.

As per Safari's result:

Vote Soundman