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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby safariguy5 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:06 pm

samgrossy wrote:
jak111 wrote:Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)


I know I keep hammering Jak here, but it seems no one is telling me that I am wrong (or right) here.

To me, this is the third scummy thing that Jak has done today. Now he is asking for people to claim in, what is essentially, the first day since there was no lynch yesterday and no nightkill. There isn't really any pressure on anyone to do so, and I think he is hiding his intent as "Let's try to figure this out" when underneath it all it seems like "Let's give scum a target at night"

Someone want to add something to my discussion, except for maybe Jak?

I said the same thing to vodean when he (whether knowingly or not) set the stage to potentially out town angels. I'm of the belief that angels would have stronger powers than town aligned humans, so I think it's pretty dangerous to be getting people to claim angel/saint simply to clear up flavor issues.

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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby jak111 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:24 pm

safariguy5 wrote:
samgrossy wrote:
jak111 wrote:Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)


I know I keep hammering Jak here, but it seems no one is telling me that I am wrong (or right) here.

To me, this is the third scummy thing that Jak has done today. Now he is asking for people to claim in, what is essentially, the first day since there was no lynch yesterday and no nightkill. There isn't really any pressure on anyone to do so, and I think he is hiding his intent as "Let's try to figure this out" when underneath it all it seems like "Let's give scum a target at night"

Someone want to add something to my discussion, except for maybe Jak?

I said the same thing to vodean when he (whether knowingly or not) set the stage to potentially out town angels. I'm of the belief that angels would have stronger powers than town aligned humans, so I think it's pretty dangerous to be getting people to claim angel/saint simply to clear up flavor issues.

FOS Jak


I'm not asking for all claims, just maybe one who thinks he's willing to shed some light on this matter. We assume a lot of things so far and atm, without investigations, no deaths, etc, etc, there isn't much I can do besides speculate and try to come to a reasonable answer. Right now there is none besides thoughts. Do I think angels are mafia? Most likely not, but it IS a possibility I can't simply rule out. That might be fine for the rest of ya, but I'll keep my thoughts open until I see solid evidence of this or that. So far with claims going, it seems like humans (everyone who's claimed so far) are town (well what else will they claim XD) so it comes to my conclusion that humans may be town at this point and with no outed angels as of yet we do not have the full extent to what side they are on.

Safari, do you remember Everywhere's game? The one where the "mafia" were the town but there were TWO mafias of 3 people. The FBI and the KGB? Not that that's 100% but it's a possibility until proven otherwise.

It might seem like I'm bringing crap to the table, but I only have a limited view on the matters atm, so unless someone feels like shedding their piece of the puzzle for me, I don't mean to offend here, but f*ck off and relax, it's Mafia, I am not good with only ever being able to have one piece of a puzzle until I can see how the other pieces are put into play. Am I perfect? Hell no, but who is in here?

/ wrote:well, I don't like how jak has been jumping to a hundred conclusions a page, "William of York" MUST be an angel, you know YORK, that part of England populated by Angels...


^ Ouch. I knew York was in England, but I thought maybe he was the angel of York, I'm not a big religious text reader, I hear bits and pieces and know this and that, but I don't have all the knowledge on present day relgions, I'm better educated in the Greek religion, Norse religion (Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc), and Egyptian religion. Those are the three I better understand. So sorry for not knowing who/what he was exactly.

Though, it strikes me odd of something... Mr.Squirrel said he had a role which tested if someone was an angel... that either sounds like a fake claim or a mafia role to find angels. Sorry if I'm wrong here, but doesn't it? Why else would he want to know who was angel or not?

Unvote, Vote Mr.Squirrel (Also gonna test my second vote to see if it works, or if that was screwed with too).
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby strike wolf on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:18 pm

Jak gets told he's jumping to too many conclusions too quickly, jumps to another conclusion.

Seriously, you are pretty much confirmed as a vote stealer butjumping around all over the place and the arguing semantics isn't going to help your case. The best way to form cases is to use accurate FACTS to form theories, not wild speculations over one fact to make a case.
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby ShaggyDan on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:08 am

I'm happy to leave my vote on Jak. The claim of stealing the vote but not being able to vote with it still doesn't add up. Plus a whole bunch of suspect behaviour that people have already brought to life. Other than that in reading through I don't have anything to add.

I am still oppposed to no lynching today (as was discussed a few pages ago when I was last on... but I don't think that is an issue at the moment).
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby jak111 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:08 am

^ While you guys continue to ignore my points I will point out another thing I've noticed, just a few inactives it seems.

~ DJ
~ DRoZ
~ Gregwolf (Who was catching up last time he spoke)
~ Iliad

and others who aren't inactive, but they are just getting by by a one liner every few days. The above have been inactive for a week or more though and no one seems to have noticed their absence.

Mr. Squirrel wrote:
VioIet wrote:
Mr. Squirrel wrote:I may or may not have information to share from last night. First though, Vio can you tell me what faction you're a part of (Angels, demons, etc.)?


Saint, though I'm not sure why you need to know this. Also, do you really expect that I would've said Demons?

Hm. Without some more information on the game's setup, its hard for me to evaluate your claim. I have a night action that (among other things) can tell me whether or not I visited an angel at night. I know that you aren't an angel, but what I don't know is if 'saints' are the human faction or if they are grouped among the angels. If the latter is true, then you would be lying (and most likely scum).

It would seem weird to me if they were considered humans (since most of the time people pray to them as envoys on their behalf to god) but I don't know what edocsil did here. If anyone can clarify this for me, I would appreciate it.


Also there's still this that people seem to have ignored in my post ~Cough~ Strike ~Cough~ "wild speculations" ~Cough~ x3 There, I must be coming down with a cold or something because I've been coughing all day.

But seriously, do you not find it funny that his role is SPECIFICALLY to find angels? What's so special about angels at this point when we haven't found any? The only way I see this being a good role is if it were sided with a scum faction. What do you guys think? Or is this jumping to conclusions too much for you Strike? ;)
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby chapcrap on Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:48 am

At this point, I think we need to lynch one of the people who has been at the center of everything OR an inactive. Which you choose to do is simply a matter of your personal mafia game philosophy. For my part, I think that lynching one of the people who are at the center of everything is the best option right now, because it will yield more information I believe. So, I think we either lynch Iliad, jak, or VS. IMO, VS would be the last of those three.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby strike wolf on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:16 am

Yes Jak it is. you are jumping to a conclusion because the role he has may be something good for town. We don't know the full extent of the set up and in fact you've made yourself over time look fairly contradictory. Angels are town, humans are probably third party. Humans are town angels could be scum. Mr. Squirrel has a role that hunts angels. How does finding out who angels are help town? Really if you aren't convinced that angels are town than that's at least one reason. Personally, Squirrel's role to me just looks like a weakened version of cop and if he was scum it doesn't really explain why he would just up and claim out of nowhere to question Vio. So yes your case on squirrel has a lot of wild speculation. Shifting your opinion around every few posts may not get you lynched but it will make your viewpoint weaker to the rest of the town even if you do come up with a good case.

At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby edocsil on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:23 am

strike wolf wrote: At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.


He has been active enough that I cannot in good faith replace him.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby chapcrap on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:24 am

strike wolf wrote:Yes Jak it is. you are jumping to a conclusion because the role he has may be something good for town.

You are you talking to here?
strike wolf wrote:At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.

I agree with this. He's in the middle of things and then claiming his vote got blocked, which isn't even confirmed (just like his role isn't confirmed).
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby strike wolf on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:29 am

edocsil wrote:
strike wolf wrote: At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.


He has been active enough that I cannot in good faith replace him.


His last post anywhere (that I can view) on this site was 10 days ago.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby strike wolf on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:30 am

chapcrap wrote:
strike wolf wrote:Yes Jak it is. you are jumping to a conclusion because the role he has may be something good for town.

You are you talking to here?


It was an answer to Jak's question regarding whether his case was wild speculation or not.
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby edocsil on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:37 am

strike wolf wrote:
edocsil wrote:
strike wolf wrote: At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.


He has been active enough that I cannot in good faith replace him.


His last post anywhere (that I can view) on this site was 10 days ago.


I prodded him. He posted about 5 times today, which meant I wasn't considering him for replacement with people who had not even posted. I will add a new rule to the op saying that if you do not post for 7 days that you will be replaced without waring.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby aage on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:38 am

jak111 wrote:But seriously, do you not find it funny that his role is SPECIFICALLY to find angels? What's so special about angels at this point when we haven't found any? The only way I see this being a good role is if it were sided with a scum faction. What do you guys think? Or is this jumping to conclusions too much for you Strike? ;)

:roll:

Firstly, you want to kill someone who claimed their role because they might have found scum. I don't even see why I would need to explain to you why that idea is stupid. Secondly, didn't you claim to be an angel? Thirdly, yes that role is good for town because it gives us confirmed townies, you... can I say "idiot"? I received an official warning in the alphabet thread when I used the term 'cultf@g' (masterfully concealed in this post) so I'll just say that where you're going now is the weirdest standard-Jak-crap I've ever seen you put out. Now I think would be a good time to answer some of the accusations made against you.


Yes, a prod on Iliad please.

ChapCrap, why would his role not be confirmed? I thought Edocsil posted a vote count with "victor - ???" in it right after Iliad cast his supposed second vote. In the off chance someone else set it up, we can still deduce that there is a double voter and a vote stealer. Since Iliad claims to have lost his anonymous vote, there is no way he can prove that he cannot cast it.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby Mr. Squirrel on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:08 pm

Sorry I've been quiet guys. I've had an outrageously busy weekend and I've got a few papers due this week. I will read up and post when I can.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby chapcrap on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:16 pm

aage wrote:ChapCrap, why would his role not be confirmed? I thought Edocsil posted a vote count with "victor - ???" in it right after Iliad cast his supposed second vote. In the off chance someone else set it up, we can still deduce that there is a double voter and a vote stealer. Since Iliad claims to have lost his anonymous vote, there is no way he can prove that he cannot cast it.

Thanks for ignoring my previous post. Here it is:

Subject: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

chapcrap wrote:Ok, I just caught up on 10 pages. Sorry for the inactivity.
strike wolf wrote:I admit it slipped my mind that victors had not been confirmed yet. as for illiad, he proved his role yesterday so innocent until proven guilty on that end.

I just want to say that this is not confirmed. I thought that immediately and now it's an actual issue. All that was confirmed was that there was a secret vote put on Victor. It wasn't confirmed that it was Iliad. It also wasn't confirmed that he even has double votes. At the time of the ??? vote, Iliad was not voting anyone else, so there was no way to know if he's telling the truth or not.

Next, if you do believe Iliad, people said that he probably was town because it would make mafia too strong. Well, now that there is a at least one vote stealer/blocker, I think we can not assume that Iliad is town at all. He can be any faction.

As far as mechanics of the game, I don't really care at this point. It's all just speculation and conjecture for no reason. We have nothing to go on. It's not going to help us catch scum today. So, I won't be participating in that discussion.

The one other thing that I wanted to comment on was when Mr. S outed his investigation of Vio, someone immediately asked him to full role claim. I thought that was pretty scummy. I'll go back and look who.... It was jonty.

Also, jak, you're in luck, Jesus accepts anyone! :D
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby aage on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:36 pm

chapcrap wrote:
aage wrote:ChapCrap, why would his role not be confirmed? I thought Edocsil posted a vote count with "victor - ???" in it right after Iliad cast his supposed second vote. In the off chance someone else set it up, we can still deduce that there is a double voter and a vote stealer. Since Iliad claims to have lost his anonymous vote, there is no way he can prove that he cannot cast it.

Thanks for ignoring my previous post. Here it is:

Subject: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

chapcrap wrote:Ok, I just caught up on 10 pages. Sorry for the inactivity.
strike wolf wrote:I admit it slipped my mind that victors had not been confirmed yet. as for illiad, he proved his role yesterday so innocent until proven guilty on that end.

I just want to say that this is not confirmed. I thought that immediately and now it's an actual issue. All that was confirmed was that there was a secret vote put on Victor. It wasn't confirmed that it was Iliad. It also wasn't confirmed that he even has double votes. At the time of the ??? vote, Iliad was not voting anyone else, so there was no way to know if he's telling the truth or not.

Next, if you do believe Iliad, people said that he probably was town because it would make mafia too strong. Well, now that there is a at least one vote stealer/blocker, I think we can not assume that Iliad is town at all. He can be any faction.

As far as mechanics of the game, I don't really care at this point. It's all just speculation and conjecture for no reason. We have nothing to go on. It's not going to help us catch scum today. So, I won't be participating in that discussion.

The one other thing that I wanted to comment on was when Mr. S outed his investigation of Vio, someone immediately asked him to full role claim. I thought that was pretty scummy. I'll go back and look who.... It was jonty.

Also, jak, you're in luck, Jesus accepts anyone! :D

You're missing my point. I didn't ignore the post, I disagree with it. Iliad claimed to have an anonymous vote in addition to his own (hence the DOUBLE voter). The ???-vote that was cast was highly likely his, if a scummate used his doublevote Iliad would (a) steal his claim and (b) get lynched once his unfortunate scummate dies. Bad idea overall. As I mentioned in my own post (which I made in response to the post you refer to) there is no way we can at this point test Iliad's claim. He claims his secret vote was stolen, not his open vote. All he has to do is use his open vote, which... Oh, hey, wait, everyone can do that. I don't see the merit in your pursuing of Iliad's role. I agree that he should post, but not because I think he's lying about his role.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby F1fth on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:43 pm

Sorry I've not been posting much. I've been busy with work though there's not a lot I would have had to say up to this point given that there's been a long discussion on metagaming and semantics the last few pages, both of I'm not too fond of. Now though, there are a few things I want to address.

@Jak - I'm not certain that I feel you're scum however I will say that you're proving unhelpful to town by rattling so many cages. I think I know what you're doing -- trying to rustle up information by aggressively pursuing leads -- but you make it hard for town to pick out what's right and wrong and to choose what to focus on. You're stirring up confusion for everybody, and confusion is the tool of the mafia. Besides that, it's the simple matter of the boy who cried wolf. When you make so many assumptions and press so many points, it's unlikely that anyone will believe you should you actually prove to be right about something.

Also, as for your point on Mr. Squirrel, I don't buy it. Mr. S said that finding angels what but one aspect of his role and nothing that's been said or done has made me doubt he has that ability. If so, it would be not so ridiculous to assume he's a pro-town investigative role. And you're saying you think what is essentially a claimed cop is lying because...? Metagaming? To be frank, that is quite a foolish assumption to make.

@aage - how do we know that Iliad even had that second vote to begin with? It could be his role is to conceal his vote and the ??? vote was simply his first and only vote. This sounds like it would be a scum role to me, and I think Iliad would know this. That makes it all the more suspicious that his second vote just so happened to be "stolen" before he ever confirmed he had two. As far as I'm concerned, Iliad is by no means confirmed despite his claim of Saint Elisabeth (which he has thus far refused to elaborate on as per /'s request).

I'll Vote Iliad until he has a little more to say for himself.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby jak111 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:14 pm

Read my posts Aage, and then ask clearly what you want to know in a single post, with everyone jumping around, I'm trying to keep my head together, so explaining myself again and again is not helping my thought process move forward.

The fact that me being confused about who WIlliam of York was is being used against what I'm putting out on the table, means somebody gotta be covering something up, I cleared that a while back that I didn't know who he was so I was confused if I was a saint or an angel or whatever.

Is my case on Mr.Squirrel perfect? Hell no, he's too good at covering his bases to let a slip out easy. Are you gonna understand my logic without going back and re-reading what I am talking about? Probably not, considering I'm posting in a way that makes sense to me. But if you never WIFOM and you never question what it does, then essentially as long as the player is good enough to make active posts you will not question them. Mr.Squirrel is good at covering his bases in each post, I know this and hopefully so do some of you. A few others are also good at covering your bases when posting, but if Mr.Squirrel only finds angels, unless an angel wants to say they are third party or cult or whatever and we are assuming angels are town, then isn't that a bad power? Oh wait, that's right, I can't use logic because as my grasp of the present roles and alignments increase people will brush it off with past posts, sorry, I forgot. :roll:

Seriously, for now, I'm keeping myself on Mr.Squirrel, there's a gut feeling that something is off about his claim or his alignment.

As for Iliad, it is a funny coincidence, not untrue 100% but it is odd, and then a few people pointing it out so vividly.

Iliad needs to vote and prove it.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby aage on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:31 pm

I'd like to apologise in advance for burdening everyone with a huge essay.

jak111 wrote:Read my posts Aage, and then ask clearly what you want to know in a single post, with everyone jumping around, I'm trying to keep my head together, so explaining myself again and again is not helping my thought process move forward.
Stop telling me to read your posts again. Seriously. Not just in this game. I wish you could just for once realise that I am not a blind fool but actually a well-lettered student at university level that is fully capable of reading those few poorly constructed paragraphs you wrote in your previous post.
Stop patronizing me. If you think a specific part of a previous post explains everything, quote that part. If I genuinely missed (a part of) one of your posts, which is possible since all humans (not in-game humans but actual humans...) err, point that out to me instead of gesturing vaguely, and pretending the game revolves around your brilliance and my putting question marks at you interrupts this divine process. Yes, you come across to me as arrogant, which I am sure is not your intention, so you might want to try to work on that. I know I come across as arrogant sometimes, and I try to work on it as well, but this is not helping, and yes, I have a problem with that.
Thank you. It is not necessary for you to reply to that part, I just needed to get that off my mind.
And as I said in the "Always wanted to say..." thread, it is personal, but I don't hate you or anything. Just wanted to make that clear.

Secondly, and here is where my post becomes relevant to the game again. In my post I clearly defined the three issues I have with your post, just as I'm doing here, by using linking words. All that would be required of you is either to answer the three parts separately, or give a general answer to the post I made, which cannot be very hard since the part directed to you is what, five lines long? Could you try again?

jak111 wrote:The fact that me being confused about who WIlliam of York was is being used against what I'm putting out on the table, means somebody gotta be covering something up, I cleared that a while back that I didn't know who he was so I was confused if I was a saint or an angel or whatever.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems you're saying that you didn't read your role pm. Also, you say you cleared something while it seems there are several people who disagree. That probably means you didn't clear it as well as you thought you did. As long as you keep saying "I already did that", your accusers will keep using the same arguments against you. That does not mean your accusers are flawed, it means your clearance is flawed. In fact, the flaw has been pointed out. Repeatedly.

jak111 wrote:Is my case on Mr.Squirrel perfect? Hell no, he's too good at covering his bases to let a slip out easy. Are you gonna understand my logic without going back and re-reading what I am talking about? Probably not, considering I'm posting in a way that makes sense to me. But if you never WIFOM and you never question what it does, then essentially as long as the player is good enough to make active posts you will not question them. Mr.Squirrel is good at covering his bases in each post, I know this and hopefully so do some of you. A few others are also good at covering your bases when posting, but if Mr.Squirrel only finds angels, unless an angel wants to say they are third party or cult or whatever and we are assuming angels are town, then isn't that a bad power? Oh wait, that's right, I can't use logic because as my grasp of the present roles and alignments increase people will brush it off with past posts, sorry, I forgot. :roll:

Oh look, there is zero evidence against player X. He must be a scum masterbrain! *more wifom*
I think that the mistake you made in your reasoning is that a cop who only finds innocent people is useless to town. As Mr. Squirrel already demonstrated in his attempt to set Violet up, and as Strike Wolf repeatedly explained in his posts (which you seem to ignore, although I sure hope that's not the case) his power could easily have been used by town (Angels) to filter out non-angels for questioning, and clear angels from suspicion. Information is power, and public information is town power.
Moreover I find it doubtful that Mr. S would claim his role immediately on day 2 while he was never under any suspicion and would gain nothing by providing town with information and a public claim. As you can see, VioIet has not been lynched. If Mr. Squirrel were the masterbrain you say he is, he would never have undertaken such action.

I also find it hilarious that in the upper quote you told me to go back and reread, while in the second quote you admit that it won't help.


F1fth wrote:@aage - how do we know that Iliad even had that second vote to begin with? It could be his role is to conceal his vote and the ??? vote was simply his first and only vote. This sounds like it would be a scum role to me, and I think Iliad would know this. That makes it all the more suspicious that his second vote just so happened to be "stolen" before he ever confirmed he had two. As far as I'm concerned, Iliad is by no means confirmed despite his claim of Saint Elisabeth (which he has thus far refused to elaborate on as per /'s request).
How do we know --> we don't, except that he used an anonymous vote nearly immediately after he announced that he would. The day simply ended before Iliad "proved" he had two votes. Obviously his own vote was stolen by someone who didn't want him to have two votes. If I were a vote stealer, my first and foremost target would be a doublevoter because they are usually town aligned (which is the party that scum tries to undermine) and I might even get both votes.
Assuming that Iliad's claim is true, and a vote stealer targeted him last night and stole his ???-vote, there is nothing he can do today to prove that this ???-vote was stolen, he can only claim. Which he did.
Assuming that Iliad's claim is false, and your theory about concealing his vote is true, he probably lied about his vote getting stolen. Vote concealment would obviously be an option because Iliad never voted in the thread to put a ???-vote on VS, so it seems logical that if he would vote in the thread his vote would show up as normal (since almost all power roles are optional). In that case he would probably claim that he lost his ???-vote during the night. Which he did.
It seems to me that there is no different outcome to either scenario, and therefore I believe that pursuing it right now serves no purpose.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby aage on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:35 pm

show
ebwop in spoiler so I don't ruin your page overview. The blue words near the bottom.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby samgrossy on Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:12 pm

Edoc, can we get a vote count?
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby edocsil on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:15 pm

samgrossy wrote:Edoc, can we get a vote count?


There's about 4 votes between now and the last one, but yes.

Vote Count

Jak (5) ~ shaggy, pcm, aage, cm5, vodean, Sam
Vodean (3) ~ lsu, jonty, saf
Iliad (1) ~ / Fifth
Mr. S (12 ~ Jak ???
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby gregwolf121 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:25 pm

well first off haven't been posting because i got swamped by college, but now that its calmed down a bit ill put in my two cents, from what i remember of my reading the biggest case, ie the most arguing is centered around jak, now i don't remember all the specific arguements but i would agree that jak your not always responding to them, it seems to me that you claim/reply enough to take the edge off the criticism but the root of the problem still exists, right now jak seems the scummiest to me.
so i shall vote jak
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby safariguy5 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:19 pm

I'm trying to decide how much of the discussion revolving around jak is just his playstyle and how much is actually questionable.

I will say that any role that is vote manipulative is more likely town in my book. However, questioning a claimed investigative as being unhelpful and scummy is too big a leap in my book.

Let's look at gregwolf's Day 2 posts. I'm going to ignore his Day 1 posts because they tend to be jokey in nature and not necessarily a good gauge of activity.

gregwolf121 wrote:well i can't add to the others interpretation of the night scene, but i hope its a good sign that no ones dead


Fluff. I doubt anyone barring edoc the mod can really interpret anything particularly useful out of that scene.

gregwolf121 wrote:well i agree that we shouldn't rush a no lynch, but i also think its a bad idea to vote jak at this point, cause his wagon growing to big to fast, but what we need to look into are cases, true jak needs to explain a bit more, but i don't recall there being any other major leads yesterday, i should go back and check though.


Agreeing that a no lynch is bad given the day is young is pretty much a given. Says he notices bandwagonning on the initial jak pressure but doesn't call anyone out via a FOS or vote them.

gregwolf121 wrote:first off sorry for inactivity internet is nonexistant in my apartment, but terminology wise i believe saint means holy, thus good, and ill need time to catch up so i won't vote, and yeah


Game meta/speculation and an inactivity check.

gregwolf121 wrote:well first off haven't been posting because i got swamped by college, but now that its calmed down a bit ill put in my two cents, from what i remember of my reading the biggest case, ie the most arguing is centered around jak, now i don't remember all the specific arguements but i would agree that jak your not always responding to them, it seems to me that you claim/reply enough to take the edge off the criticism but the root of the problem still exists, right now jak seems the scummiest to me.
so i shall vote jak


Now this one is the real offender.

First, admission of skimming. Second, restating what aage just posted. Third a bandwagon vote based on feelings of scumminess that is basically implied to be supported by aage's post. Which is to say supported by really nothing. Which makes it a clear bandwagon vote. Seriously greg, you're an old player, you really should be better than this.

unvote vote gregwolf
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby F1fth on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:35 am

aage wrote:
F1fth wrote:@aage - how do we know that Iliad even had that second vote to begin with? It could be his role is to conceal his vote and the ??? vote was simply his first and only vote. This sounds like it would be a scum role to me, and I think Iliad would know this. That makes it all the more suspicious that his second vote just so happened to be "stolen" before he ever confirmed he had two. As far as I'm concerned, Iliad is by no means confirmed despite his claim of Saint Elisabeth (which he has thus far refused to elaborate on as per /'s request).
How do we know --> we don't, except that he used an anonymous vote nearly immediately after he announced that he would. The day simply ended before Iliad "proved" he had two votes. Obviously his own vote was stolen by someone who didn't want him to have two votes. If I were a vote stealer, my first and foremost target would be a doublevoter because they are usually town aligned (which is the party that scum tries to undermine) and I might even get both votes.
Assuming that Iliad's claim is true, and a vote stealer targeted him last night and stole his ???-vote, there is nothing he can do today to prove that this ???-vote was stolen, he can only claim. Which he did.
Assuming that Iliad's claim is false, and your theory about concealing his vote is true, he probably lied about his vote getting stolen. Vote concealment would obviously be an option because Iliad never voted in the thread to put a ???-vote on VS, so it seems logical that if he would vote in the thread his vote would show up as normal (since almost all power roles are optional). In that case he would probably claim that he lost his ???-vote during the night. Which he did.
It seems to me that there is no different outcome to either scenario, and therefore I believe that pursuing it right now serves no purpose.

That was a bit of a rhetorical question but thanks for answering honestly. :D I agree with just about everything you posted except the last part where pursuing Iliad would be fruitless. If we press Iliad, he won't feel quite so comfortable lurking as he has been and may contribute more to the game. That benefits us whether he's town or scum and gives us a little more of the evidence we desire. However, now that I've said all this I'll admit a vote on him won't do much good since my point and intentions are clear. Unvote Iliad. Hopefully he'll start posting more and we can confirm him as a double voter tomorrow, barring any misfortune during the night.

As for Safari's points on gregwolf, I agree on all counts -- especially about the extremely weak bandwagon vote. Greg, you know you don't need to remember when you can just read the last few pages, right? Saying you can't remember just doesn't fly, nor does voting based on your lapse of memory. Vote Gregwolf
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