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Alien: The Return - Alien wins!

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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Mon May 29, 2017 9:23 am

Because I believe it's causing unnecessary confusion. We didn't need to speculate the settings because the one's provided to us in a previous game is for all to see. The opening scene is merely what set up the game. If we're really going to use the opening as "evidence", look at this...

The Company Man was not satisfied with report. He locked every spacecraft member into separate cell...during the lock up there was disturbance, the whole system broke down, all the lights were out...strange sound(s)[sic] of pain broke out...


We can assume that the Company Man (whom I'm convinced is Weiland) and his guard, are dead, completely irrelevant to the settings at this point as it merely sets up for the return of the Queen. Disputing this any further is just going to cause more confusion when our deadline is already less than five days away.
Remember the title as well: "The Return".

So, given that Mitch caused some slight confusion from the get-go, I'm putting him up there.

Also, it generates discussion and gets the ball moving.
Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby MudPuppy on Mon May 29, 2017 9:36 am

Ragian wrote:@Mudpuppy, have we played in the same mafia games before?

Looks like just HP Mafia. Have been tres busy in rl for past year plus and am just now finding a bit of extra time to get back into CC. Enjoyed the Mafia games I played and this 8-player game looked like a nice way to test the waters again without making a long commitment.
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby strike wolf on Mon May 29, 2017 9:46 am

fos mudpuppy because it's silly to even bring up the security officer from the previous game as if the specific set up there may affect this one.

What I noted from mitch last game in hind sight is he was being a bit quieter and less crazy than normal, so I'm going to call his speculation Here more of a town tell.

Dakky I'm also leaning slightly town simply because I don't think he's the type to try to push a case on a player not known to be easy to lynch when scum.

I'll
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Ragian on Mon May 29, 2017 9:57 am

You'll what?

@DDS, I agree that it's a similar setup to the last one, but I don't see mitch's crime really. Not vote-worthy at least.

@mud, right, I remember that game. How are you when scum?
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby MudPuppy on Mon May 29, 2017 10:44 am

Ragian wrote:@mud, right, I remember that game. How are you when scum?

If I'm doing it right, exactly the same as when town. :P
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby dakky21 on Mon May 29, 2017 11:09 am

[quote="DirtyDishSoap"We can assume that the Company Man (whom I'm convinced is Weiland) and his guard, are dead, completely irrelevant to the settings at this point as it merely sets up for the return of the Queen. Disputing this any further is just going to cause more confusion when our deadline is already less than five days away.
Remember the title as well: "The Return".[/quote]

Don't know why you think why Company man his guards are dead...

I know I skimmed through first post, but checked it again. It says (in mechanics part) there is an Alien Queen (again) and that there is a Cult leader. Could be the same person, but I doubt it. I think there are two cult leaders - both the Queen and the Company man, 2 guards as said in an opening post and 4 scientists (or whatever, vanilla townies).

So if I'm correct, we will all end up in a cult, be it the Alien Queen one or the Company man one.
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby strike wolf on Mon May 29, 2017 11:15 am

I'll cut my sentence short apparently. I meant I'll give Pika and Little Witt through Memorial day at least to respond.
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Pikanchion on Mon May 29, 2017 2:38 pm

Ragian wrote:It doesn't say that the two guards from the company and the man from the company isn't part of the game in the OP, though. They could just be flavour, but I don't get why mitch is scummy based on him mentioning them.

He didn't just mention them, he fished for them to roleclaim and basically suggested a mass roleclaim was the correct course of action...
madmitch wrote:So I take it that the company man and his two buddies are the cult , then that leaves the alien queen and four others ,Lets try to figure this out.


Not to mention madmitch hasn't softclaimed (which according to others is his only scum tell...)
Now dakky21 has joined madmitch's crazy train and believes there are not one, but two cults:
dakky21 wrote:
DirtyDishSoap wrote:We can assume that the Company Man (whom I'm convinced is Weiland) and his guard, are dead, completely irrelevant to the settings at this point as it merely sets up for the return of the Queen. Disputing this any further is just going to cause more confusion when our deadline is already less than five days away.
Remember the title as well: "The Return".


Don't know why you think why Company man his guards are dead...

I know I skimmed through first post, but checked it again. It says (in mechanics part) there is an Alien Queen (again) and that there is a Cult leader. Could be the same person, but I doubt it. I think there are two cult leaders - both the Queen and the Company man, 2 guards as said in an opening post and 4 scientists (or whatever, vanilla townies).

So if I'm correct, we will all end up in a cult, be it the Alien Queen one or the Company man one.

All this after having "checked the first post again", where it clearly says this:
benga wrote:Mechanics:
  • Crew members get one lynch Day 1, and to balance out the Aliens, there will be two lynches every day for the rest of the game.
  • Crew member power roles can be recruited, but cannot use their power.
  • Any Alien who dies has their original role revealed as well. (e.g. [player], the Alien [former Science Officer])
  • If the Cult Leader dies, the Cult will no longer be able to recruit. The remaining Cultists will not commit suicide upon the Cult Leader's death.
  • All actions at night happen at the same time, so even if Alien Queen is shot, she can still recruit

Things we can tell immediately from what I've highlighted: There is an alien presence, some of the crew are power roles, aliens are cult, the Alien Queen is cult leader (respectively).
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby madmitch on Mon May 29, 2017 5:06 pm

I know that this is a crazy game already,but let's look at the facts: this is the THE RETURN, 5 survivors and at least 1 infected ( new alien queen, cult leader ) now add the weird man from the company ( another cult leader possible ? ) and the 2 guards ,that gives us 8 players , what I don't understand why DDS is saying I am trying to confuse everyone? I think he is trying to hide his true form and misdirect everyone. vote DDS
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Pikanchion on Mon May 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Isn't the premise that we're all employees of the company anyway? -How does a second cult make any sense?
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Little Witt on Mon May 29, 2017 7:46 pm

Clearly I need to brush up on what happened last game, as the majority of the discussion is referencing it. I'm still not sure what to think of the theories suggested thus far.

P.S. This is my first true mafia game since way back when I was in an H.P. Lovecraft as Cthulhu. That was an enjoyable game with some very complex rolls.
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby dakky21 on Mon May 29, 2017 7:49 pm

Pika did you intentionally put that orange hard reading color? And why didn't you highlight the "cult leader" mechanics?
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Pikanchion on Mon May 29, 2017 9:36 pm

Why didn't I highlight the information that is irrelevant to the argument I was making? Hmm I wonder... -Although now you mention it that part DOES actually use the singular subject when referring to a cult leader, so yeah, further demonstrating that the two cult leaders idea is incorrect, and therefore we can say with some certainty that the Alien Queen is the sole cult leader.
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Little Witt on Mon May 29, 2017 10:06 pm

So, can someone summarize briefly what we've mostly agreed upon. I have gotten lost in all the discussion involving the previous edition that I my memory can't separate the two. If I had been involved with that edition then this wouldn't be as necessary. I just want to make sure I'm understanding everything as closely to what you guys are.

:P
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Mon May 29, 2017 11:27 pm

madmitch wrote:I know that this is a crazy game already,but let's look at the facts: this is the THE RETURN, 5 survivors and at least 1 infected ( new alien queen, cult leader ) now add the weird man from the company ( another cult leader possible ? ) and the 2 guards ,that gives us 8 players , what I don't understand why DDS is saying I am trying to confuse everyone? I think he is trying to hide his true form and misdirect everyone. vote DDS


The Company Man was not satisfied with report. He locked every spacecraft member into separate cell...during the lock up there was disturbance, the whole system broke down, all the lights were out...strange sound(s)[sic] of pain broke out...


Am I reading something differently here? Lights go out, sounds of pain, indicating death.

I'm not going to play with the notion, at all, that there is a 2nd cult. It'd simply be an auto lose for the town. Period. Anyone who is going to assume there is a second cult in this game...of 8 players, is either cult themselves to cause confusion and to divert attention away from any real issue, or is wholly ignorant of the settings of the previous game.

I'd also like to add that the previous 4 random set ups provided are not currently set it in stone. Benga didn't list possible role outcomes, so we may have 1 psychic, 1 security officer, 5 VT and 1 queen. Or the previous game's set up. Or we're all biologists that are way over our heads with science. I don't know for certain. What I do know for certain, is that there is no 2nd cult.
Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Ragian on Tue May 30, 2017 4:10 am

Humm... I wouldn't think that mitch is the AQ based on what has transpired. I'm also thinking that DDS is town. That leaves five players. If the remaining five players could be sweet enough to state who amongst them is the AQ that would be nice, okay thanks.
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Ragian on Wed May 31, 2017 1:39 am

So ahm...right...where is everybody?
vote strike

I don't know when memorial day is, but we're on a tight deadline here. (Yep, that's my vote.)
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby benga on Wed May 31, 2017 2:06 am

VOTE COUNT

DirtyDishSoap /1/mitch
Ragian
MudPuppy
madmitch /1/pika
Pikanchion
Little Witt
strike wolf /2/dakky,Rag
dakky21

with 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Wed May 31, 2017 2:31 am

Ragian wrote:So ahm...right...where is everybody?
vote strike

I don't know when memorial day is, but we're on a tight deadline here. (Yep, that's my vote.)

Other than Mitch for me, it looks like it'll be a random vote lynch unless we can somehow generate more discussion.

Why the vote on Strike?
Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby Ragian on Wed May 31, 2017 3:46 am

To get something going. To get his brilliant wit in here before Memorial Day. Also from the thought that if I should vote for whoever I'd fear most as the AQ, I'd vote him or you.
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby madmitch on Wed May 31, 2017 7:27 pm

unvote After rereading ,I find Rags is right DDS does sound more town than alien, but I don't get why Strike is underfire?
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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby strike wolf on Wed May 31, 2017 10:28 pm

Frankly I've just been busier than I thought I would be so my activity's been down...which I think is Ragian's reasoning. Dakky seems to be hung up on me joke voting a non-player which I couldn't care less about defending myself about.

Anywho, I don't buy the Mitch case. It's Mitch, crazy speculation seems about par for the course for him. It seems to me that Dakky and Mudpuppy also brought up oddball speculation and it hasn't received nearly the same level of scrutiny from DDS. If we were to go the speculation route, I would be more interested in Mudpuppy than Mitch or Dakky (I believe I mentioned earlier that I don't think Dakky would go out of his way to vote me or any other player who was perceived as strong if scum. I'll still give him a slightly scummy reading based on the speculation drama but he's close to the bottom of my list on people I'm currently considering). Plus while Dakky and Mitch were more direct with their speculation, Mudpuppy seemed more like shooting in the dark to me. Bringing up theories that he shot down before he even started them. It could be town genuinely working out thought processes on what could be but it seems a bit unnecessary.

Little witt asking about consensus rather than forming his own opinions struck me as a bit odd but he is new to this community if not mafia in general so I'm willing to be lenient there.

Ranked right now in order of who I'd like to lynch:

1. Mudpuppy
2. DDS
3. Little Witt
4. Dakky

The rest, I would not lynch at this point unless circumstances change. As it is, the difference between 1 and 2 on this list is pretty significant.

I'm also willing to vote Pikanchion because if we let him live, he'll eventually bring math into the game again. ;)
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Wed May 31, 2017 11:37 pm

strike wolf wrote:Frankly I've just been busier than I thought I would be so my activity's been down...which I think is Ragian's reasoning. Dakky seems to be hung up on me joke voting a non-player which I couldn't care less about defending myself about.

Anywho, I don't buy the Mitch case. It's Mitch, crazy speculation seems about par for the course for him. It seems to me that Dakky and Mudpuppy also brought up oddball speculation and it hasn't received nearly the same level of scrutiny from DDS. If we were to go the speculation route, I would be more interested in Mudpuppy than Mitch or Dakky (I believe I mentioned earlier that I don't think Dakky would go out of his way to vote me or any other player who was perceived as strong if scum. I'll still give him a slightly scummy reading based on the speculation drama but he's close to the bottom of my list on people I'm currently considering). Plus while Dakky and Mitch were more direct with their speculation, Mudpuppy seemed more like shooting in the dark to me. Bringing up theories that he shot down before he even started them. It could be town genuinely working out thought processes on what could be but it seems a bit unnecessary.

Little witt asking about consensus rather than forming his own opinions struck me as a bit odd but he is new to this community if not mafia in general so I'm willing to be lenient there.

I'm also willing to vote Pikanchion because if we let him live, he'll eventually bring math into the game again. ;)


God, do I hate that argument now.
Anyways...

I find your pursuit of Mudpuppy to be more suspicious to me over Dakky or Mitch, who whole heartedly believes, or at least is attempting to convince everyone, that there is a second cult. It's completely ridiculous to even speculate it, and I'm through with the Mitch being Mitch excuse. Mud simply speculated, pointed out that he thought it's unlikely, and gave us a more plausible scenario. The settings aren't set in stone, and I had used the previous settings in Alien as an example for that. It's more likely that we're facing 1 out 4 settings, or if Benga decided to cross one off for purposes of variety, then 1 out of 3 settings. If it isn't what I suggested, then perhaps I can tickle the pro-company theory as town, not as a secondary cult.

MudPuppy wrote:Mitch, are you really suggesting an 8-player game with two separate cult factions with one faction already having two buddies? I find that highly unlikely and I find it more than a bit odd that you're suggesting that in an attempt to "figure this out." What are the odds you could be recast as the queen in this sequel???

Guessing it more likely we have 1 Alien Queen & two groups of crew members... one group pro-survival and the other pro-company (even if it means the sacrifice of life). So, a 1/4/3 split with the 1 as the cultist???


Does Mud's total of 2 posts after the game has started strike me as scummy? Not really. There's a complete lack of discussion here. The scum tells so far is:
1. Dakky's voting against joke voting, which is horrible reasoning to begin with, his half-hearted attempt at backing Mitch.
2. Mitch's assertiveness that there is a 2nd cult, omgus vote, same tells he gave off the previous game and the lack of a soft claim that everyone seems to look for in his inane gameplay.
3. Little Wit because for all we know, is just attempting to play ignorant. He's not a complete new player as he himself has indicated.
4. Yourself because this is your only post on Days 1.

That's in no particular order either for the record.

The least likely at this moment is Ragian and Pika, with Mudpuppy being in the middle.

I'm more inclined to believe that Mitch has gotten the role of Queen again.
Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Wed May 31, 2017 11:42 pm

Sorry. 3 posts from Puppy, not including the one in response to Ragians inquiry.
Puppy even backpedaled his argument when I brought up the settings in the previous game. Mitch and Dakky has not.

Nor am I including the other post of waiting after memorial day.
Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: Alien: The Return (8/8)

Postby strike wolf on Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:13 am

I say Mitch being Mitch because it isn't logical to lynch someone for something that's well within their town behavior and a wild speculation about set up is pretty par for the course from Mitch. Your case on Mitch boiled down to you believing that he was sowing confusion by stating a wild theory. Explain the wild theory bit which is easily explainable by it being in Mitch's normal town range and your case is weak.

MudPuppy wrote: I don't think it's a coincidence that the ship has 3 new arrivals who join 5 crew members already on the ship when there were 5 survivors from the prequel. If related, then we may already know 5 of the roles: 3 vanilla crew + 1 former crew who was infected and now the new alien queen (pretty safe assumption) + 1 additional crew member (security or vanilla, depending on who was infected). Survivors from end of first alien game:
benga wrote:Alive
Skoffin - Science Officer
Ragian - Science Officer
Samlen - Science Officer
IcePack - Science Officer
DirtyDishSoap - Security Officer

I would normally guess that a guard might equate to a security officer but having two or three security officers in this setup would be a bit too crazy... not quite as crazy as Mitch's theory... but still too crazy for balance. So, the company man and friends could just be story line filler to get the crew back up to 8, in which case we could have any of the proposed setups if one or two the new additions has a power (security or psychic). I'd give a bit more weight to a setup with a security officer since we know one survived from the prequel.... Or, Benga may also have added a whole new town faction (Company) to compete with the current town faction (Survivors).


I'm not doubting Mud's conclusion that the company man and guards are probably filler to bring the crew back to eight but the rest is just overdone. There's no need for it. He created a whole post (which I actually cut down on) when he could have explained it in two sentences. If that. It's as obfuscating as anything Mitch has done. Trying to claim that there would be a role in the game because it was in the previous game is just misleading. There's no basis for stating the possibility of such a scenario as IMO no good mod would make that scenario without good reason and if such a scenario was to be made, we as town would have more than vague flavor text that can be interpreted a hundred ways.

Mudpuppy ends his post being pretty undecisive as he leaves open the possibility of the company (frankly not impossible but I'm inclined to agree with you that until proven otherwise we are dealing with a similar set up to the original game) as a second possible threat.
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


Strike wolf need brain for smart making.
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