Conquer Club

Could you explain that, jmf? What do you mean that you can't write like Pika? What do you mean that you won't hide behind him tonight? Has this one post made him vanish from your scum list?

Ragian wrote:Could you explain that, jmf? What do you mean that you can't write like Pika? What do you mean that you won't hide behind him tonight? Has this one post made him vanish from your scum list?

If both of you survive the night then I believe you are both scum.If pika is town and you are scum then you have to kill him tonight imo.If we lynched
strike and he is scum then pika would be my thoughts for being his partner still.If strike is town then you and blackie are who I think are scum.You guys write paragraphs while I struggle with sentences.

I'll try to short this long post of Pika.

Pikanchion wrote:How many Scum are there?
Two seems likely.

Pikanchion wrote:In the event of my untimely demise:
If I am a...

I would say Pika is scum (again). Perhaps there are 3 of them and if I'm correct, then this is also a lie. And then... bringing the list of if & then... how does it help. It helps only if he flips town with a role, but why do that instead of claiming directly. So if you flip town cop, both me and Ragian are town. But if you flip doctor then you protected Ragian and blacky. What is the purpose of that if/then list? You can also be scum so the list is irrelevant. You are trying to defend yourself by "if then list" because we should not target you because you think we're town. Good rethorics but that may work with Ragoo, not with me.

dakky21 wrote:To be honest, I think at this point Pika & Ragian are scum (blacky possible as 3rd). I already voted Pika and had vote on him for some time, so excuse me for going back that road.

Unvote, Vote Pika

If i didn't already claim, I could copy your list and just insert your name instead of mine:

Pikanchion wrote:In the event of my untimely demise:

If I am a...

• Vanilla Townie: No action taken x2
• Cop: Ragian/Pika, Town x2
• Doctor: Ragian/blacky365
• Jailor: ZaBeast/Ragian
• Roleblocker: Tobikera/Ragian
• Tracker: Pika/Ragian, No result x2
• Vigilante: No action taken/jfm10
• Watcher: Tobikera/strike wolf, No result x2
• Any other role: Pika/strike wolf, No result x2

What makes me then? Something of the town roles while everyone else is town or I protected someone or jailed or tracked or whatever. But what clears me of being scum? Just asking.

jfm10 wrote:

Ragian wrote:Could you explain that, jmf? What do you mean that you can't write like Pika? What do you mean that you won't hide behind him tonight? Has this one post made him vanish from your scum list?

If both of you survive the night then I believe you are both scum.If pika is town and you are scum then you have to kill him tonight imo.If we lynched
strike and he is scum then pika would be my thoughts for being his partner still.If strike is town then you and blackie are who I think are scum.You guys write paragraphs while I struggle with sentences.

I think you're doing fine. While I don't necessarily agree with you, your communication is easily understood, and when there are ambiguities, people ask.

dakky21 wrote:Good rethorics but that may work with Ragoo, not with me.

Of course, you've gotten it wrong despite my many attempts at saying why I think Pika is town. Lemme try again because it has nothing to do with his D2-D3 play (although his D2 & D3 play hasn't altered my opinion): Pika stuck to his guns D1 in a way I have only seen him do as town and in a way that would be extremely counterproductive D1 if scum. I cannot see him play such a horrendous game D1 as scum.

dakky21 wrote:I would say Pika is scum (again).

Again..? What, like the time when Scum won largely due to people claiming or otherwise revealing their roles for no reason? And what was it I was trying to do in this game that got me all my votes?

dakky21 wrote:And then... bringing the list of if & then... how does it help. It helps only if he flips town with a role, but why do that instead of claiming directly. So if you flip town cop, both me and Ragian are town. But if you flip doctor then you protected Ragian and blacky. What is the purpose of that if/then list? You can also be scum so the list is irrelevant. You are trying to defend yourself by "if then list" because we should not target you because you think we're town. Good rethorics but that may work with Ragoo, not with me.

Why are you even playing mafia if you have to ask what the potential utility of that list is?

dakky21 wrote:I'll try to short this long post of Pika.

Pikanchion wrote:How many Scum are there?
Two seems likely.

Perhaps there are 3 of them and if I'm correct, then this is also a lie.

Okay, but if this and me being Town are the only parts of the premise that you disagree with then my analysis (which you for some reason completely left out of your post, even though it was the whole point of that section) would still stand. The pool of four I identified would still be two Town and two Scum, and the opportunity presented by forcing one of them to claim still exists. Of course, if I am Scum, surely I wouldn't lead Town straight to my partners, so which of Tobikera, you, or jfm10 are also Scum?

It seems that the only thread linking the various things you've pointed to as evidence for me maybe being Scum this game is that they would each make no sense for me to do as Scum.

dakky21 wrote:But what clears me of being scum? Just asking.

When did I use either list as justification for not lynching me? Just asking.

If I am Town those lists are the correct thing to do should one refuse to claim, if I am Scum they are a way to do just what you are suggesting. I have refused to claim. If I am Town and get lynched (and I am a Power Role) then I have mitigated some of what would be lost by my not claiming. If I am Town and do not get lynched I have mitigated all of what would be lost by my claiming (regardless of whether I am a Power Role or not, and arguably increased the utility of my role should I be a VT). If I am Scum then it is merely a gambit which failed to pay off, although in that case I would ask why not make a fake claim (especially if we go with your three man team idea)? Claiming Cop or Doctor would either still get me lynched (but force a counter claim), or put me in a highly opportune situation should the claimed role not be present, while claiming any other semi-common role would likely go un-countered and give a better chance of not getting lynched than what I have done.

—

To everybody (including these three): How confident are you that Tobikera, dakky21, and jfm10 are two VTs and a Town Hider respectively?

In the event of my untimely demise:
If I am a...
Vanilla Townie: No action taken x2 not likely doubtul
Cop: Ragian/dakky21, Town x2 I am an idiot possible
Doctor: Ragian/blacky365 why blacky doubtful
Jailor: ZaBeast/Ragian possible
Roleblocker: Tobikera/Ragian why tobi(adament to vote tobi)(claims ragian 2nd night)possible
Tracker: dakky21/Ragian, No result x2 why no result doubtul
Vigilante: No action taken/jfm10 doubtful
Watcher: Tobikera/strike wolf, No result x2 doubtful
Any other role: dakky21/strike wolf, No result x2
Scum: aage/jfm ???


sorry...posting this for my thoughts mainly

Scum: aage/jfm ??? Is my play so bad that if not lynched then even scum are willing to just end me? probably
could I be right about you and ragian being scum and yous believe there is a connection amongst town? maybe
Or is it you and strike cause you place his name at the bottom twice yet ragian five times? maybe+1
pika has come to L2 twice now.
I am willing to be your hammer just to find out if I am a complete idiot.

dakky21 wrote:If i didn't already claim, I could copy your list and just insert your name instead of mine:
[...]
What makes me then? Something of the town roles while everyone else is town or I protected someone or jailed or tracked or whatever. But what clears me of being scum? Just asking.

Regardless of what you think of the way he claimed, it is incorrect to say full claiming alone can clear the claimee

@pika I feel like your idea has too many moving parts. For one, you assume the claimee will either be truthful or counter-claimed, while it is possible he could fake-claim a role that actually isn't in the game. Second, you assume we only have one protective role (because if there's more than one, there's no way of knowing which protection was actually successful). Going from the assumption there are two scum it doesn't look unreasonnable, but if it's not the case or you combine it with the first point you can see how it could cause an issue. Bottom line is I'd rather trust posts than automatically clear a claimed protective role and his target based on all the assumptions you made.

unvote

We're moving at a snail's pace here. If anyone cares, this is how I feel about peepz so far:

1 Pikanchion (I believe town due to gameplay D1, actual annoyance of irrelevant topics, general gut feeling well phrased by beast)
2 dakky21 (I believe town due to aage gunning for him D1 and flipping lyncher, but that's the only reason)

4 Ragian (the best townie ever)
5 strike wolf (simply can't read him in this game...)
6 chapcrap Replaced by JFM (started out looking as if wanting to win this for town, but then one anti-town move after another followed as did poor reasoning)

8 blacky365 (I fear reading blacky, mainly because it was pure luck that I found out he was scum in Razor's game; i.e. I'm not ruling out anything)

10 Metsfanmax replaced by ZaBeast (I'm not sure, but I always like it when someone is able to voice how I feel - Beast has done that a few times)
11 Tobikera (I think town due to gameplay fitting meta - unless the ol' bugger has developed his game...)

So, barring any damning evidence, I can only get behind voting for three people... Take it or leave it.

(Maybe we need a deadline)

Ragian wrote:unvote

We're moving at a snail's pace here. If anyone cares, this is how I feel about peepz so far:

1 Pikanchion (I believe town due to gameplay D1, actual annoyance of irrelevant topics, general gut feeling well phrased by beast)
2 dakky21 (I believe town due to aage gunning for him D1 and flipping lyncher, but that's the only reason)

4 Ragian (the best townie ever)
5 strike wolf (simply can't read him in this game...)
6 chapcrap Replaced by JFM (started out looking as if wanting to win this for town, but then one anti-town move after another followed as did poor reasoning)

8 blacky365 (I fear reading blacky, mainly because it was pure luck that I found out he was scum in Razor's game; i.e. I'm not ruling out anything)

10 Metsfanmax replaced by ZaBeast (I'm not sure, but I always like it when someone is able to voice how I feel - Beast has done that a few times)
11 Tobikera (I think town due to gameplay fitting meta - unless the ol' bugger has developed his game...)

So, barring any damning evidence, I can only get behind voting for three people... Take it or leave it.

(Maybe we need a deadline)

Can you be more specific? From your list, I get that you don't have a town read on me, blacky, jfm and strike, so I'm not sure which three people you're refering to.

Either you change it to four, or you look four one of the four mentioned in a positive light. I don't find it that ambiguous.

you should impose a new rule - who has most votes gets lynched instead of no lynch if not enough votes for a lynch. I guess this game will drag for some time and town has no chance. If tied just roll the dice.

Or modkill whoever bitches the most

To add to the fun, I'm off to a festival tomorrow till Sunday. Obviously, I'll check in at least once a day, but I might be dakk...I mean drunk.

C'mon, Blacky, strike, someone...say something clever...

Eh. I'm Asking about Curtains for a Standard Size Window. My pm doesn't state a role but from what it reads I'm a vt. Either way I did not save or role block anyone last night so I cannot account for why Mafia's kill did not go through.

As I said earlier, Blacky to me is pretty much a PoE suspicion. There are others who could certainly be scum but they've mostly given me more town vibes.

1. Zabeast-hasnt been the most active so his lurking accusation is a bit funny in that regard but he appears to be thinking for himself and not getting swept up in whatever the case du jour is like some people have. This reads to me as a town trait. Leaning pretty well town.
2. JFM-town leaning. His play hasn't been great for town but it wasn't great for town the previous game either. He's been questioning people and I think just getting wrapped up in false flavor but his play seems genuine.
3. Ragian-I hope he is town because he's one of the more active if not the most active player this game. Overall he hasn't set off any warning bells to me with his posts and i feel there is a better explanation than scum for why he's been more aggressive this game. Leaning town.
4. Me-town
5. Pika-He had multiple opportunities to get off the policy lynch and reduce the amount of suspicion on him. This reads to me as town. He has avoided fully claiming under pressure. This reads as scummy. Has also shown effort to not just go with the town flow. Townish. Overall slightly town lean.
6. Tobi-mostly neutral. Would probably be my scum pick if Blacky/Dakky flip town or if lynching both doesn't end the game with a town win. I can't think of anything he's done that s struck me as particularly pro town which is a bit scummy in itself but hes also not giving me the same vibe as Into The Deep and Raglan knows him better than so and says he thinks he's town.

So the scum picks.

7. Blacky again I'm mostly neutral. He hasn't shown me anything thst strikes me as overly town but hes also pretty new. The fact that he feels his role would come off scummy is interesting to me but I'm not convinced that s super scummy because why bother pointing that out if he's scum? So mostly neutral but rubs me the wrong way a bit more than Tobi does.

8. Dakky-Dakky was the other vote that seemed rushed and jumping on the Razor bandwagon day 1. He showed similar behavior day 2 and his vote on DGZ seemed particularly odd. In hindsight with DGZ flipping town, it feels more like someone who was trying to helped push the lynch but giving themselves an out to say that they weren't really convinced the next day. It basically felt like Dakky gave too much effort in explaining why the action that was causing the vote could just be a town thing.

Vote Dakky

But Aage was after Dakky D1, and Aage was a lyncher. Wouldn't that indicate that dakky is town?

Vote Count
8 alive, 5 needed to lynch.

Pikanchion ---- Tobi, blacky, dakky (3)
dakky21 ------- strike (1)
Ragian ---------
strike wolf ---- pika, jmf (2)
JFM ------
blacky365 -----
Beast ---
Tobikera ------

2 days left until deadline

Okay, Pika, jmf. Could you please restate your accusations of Strike and perhaps guess at who you think would be his scum partner? (Figuring there is two scum.)

Ragian wrote:Okay, Pika, jmf. Could you please restate your accusations of Strike and perhaps guess at who you think would be his scum partner? (Figuring there is two scum.)

Strike in my eyes would be Pika partner.

strike wolf wrote:1. Zabeast-hasnt been the most active so his lurking accusation is a bit funny in that regard but he appears to be thinking for himself and not getting swept up in whatever the case du jour is like some people have. This reads to me as a town trait. Leaning pretty well town.

I haven't been as active as I would have liked to, but it doesn't negate the lack of activity on your end.

strike wolf wrote:5. Pika-He had multiple opportunities to get off the policy lynch and reduce the amount of suspicion on him. This reads to me as town. He has avoided fully claiming under pressure. This reads as scummy. Has also shown effort to not just go with the town flow. Townish. Overall slightly town lean.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Going with the same logic by which you give him town cred for sticking with the policy lynch, wouldn't the fact he's been brought to L-2 again and refused to claim the proper way make it a towny trait? Claiming makes it easier for scum to get caught in a lie, yes, but you'd also attract counter-claims, while sticking out like that is riskier than the taking the chance of being counter-claimed (or claiming VT) I believe

Ragian wrote:But Aage was after Dakky D1, and Aage was a lyncher. Wouldn't that indicate that dakky is town?

You're making two assumptions here
- dakky was aage's target
- lyncher's targets are town
While it's pretty likely dakky was aage's target, as he locked on to dakky early and didn't let go, I'm not particularly convinced about the second one. It kind of makes sense that a lyncher would have to lynch a townie as he could significantly cripple the chances of winning of the scum team if he is dealt one of them (since he could fake claim an incriminating result on his lynchee to get him lynched), but that would also depend on the number of scum present in the game. If we have 3 scum, I could see a lyncher being dealt a scum target.

My reads
JFM- As already voiced, I believe his actions come from town. I think his methods (mostly the going after flavour and claiming parts) are misguided but he seems intent on catching scum.
Ragian- Very active, I don't have an issue with what he says except for the part where he believed I said jfm was targetted last night. I believe you're likelier to see something as a slip if you know it's actually what happened, and maybe he targeted jfm as scum and that's why he thought my post might have been a slip. That or he's trying way too hard to scumhunt I guess. Leaning town.
Pika- I didn't like his claiming at first, but I don't see him claiming in that way as scum. If he refused to claim without giving a reason, sure, but him not wanting to claim because he doesn't believe the votes he got hold water, while somewhat claiming looks like town to me.
Strike, blacky- both neutral, nothing particularly sticks out, strike isn't pretty active (though he wasn't in the ITD game either)
Tobi, dakky- both guilty of the same anti-town play of claiming for no reason, but I still don't like the timing of dakky's claim--- when the consensus was that tobi's claim was not lynch-worthy. Tobi neutral, dakky leaning scum.

If I had to rank those neutrals by scumminess, it would be dakky>>strike~=blacky>tobi
Given we're close to a deadline and dakky doesn't seem a particularly popular choice, I'll vote strike
I should be able to switch my vote tomorrow if needed.

Ragian wrote:Okay, Pika, jmf. Could you please restate your accusations of Strike and perhaps guess at who you think would be his scum partner? (Figuring there is two scum.)

Initially strike wolf was one of the four I identified, and has not posted enough for me to get much of a read. If everybody else who has claimed in this game was telling the truth then the chances of strike wolf being a VT in that pool is at best 50%.

Scum partners are hard to gauge when the reason you are voting for somebody is in part a lack of activity.

Pika, where are you getting this number from, and are you advocating for lynching the other claimed VTs on that basis if whoever gets lynched today is truthful about his role?

I've only ever played with a lynchee being town... I wasn't aware that that could alter.

I'm not going to vote Pika. Strike is the only other option. I have no solid read on him. If we don't lynch, we'll end up the same place tomorrow, I guess. If we lynch him and he flips town, what do we do tomorrow? Maybe that's the question I want answered from the people advocating a strike lynch.