Conquer Club

Viking Invasion

Medieval Denmark II


Discussion
-Does the gameplay work? Is anyone at a specific disadvantage?
-Anything else that may cross your minds.

Recent Changes
-Holding Norge and/or Danmark now cancels the decay on fleets
-Offa's Dyke added to prevent Wales and Mercia from killing each other on the first time and to reduce Mercian disadvantage from being surrounded on four sides.
-altered a few neutrals to help give Mercia an easier time of things (specifically Wreocan Saete 4->3; Gwent 2->3; Pec Saetan 3->4

Description
Ever had one of those days when you've nothing really to do? Well I had one yesterday. A random idea came into my head for a map and, as I often do, I sketched it down in paint. Then I thought, "might as well have something I can build on" so I did it in gimp. Then I wanted to test out a few graphics ideas that popped into my head and then it kind of snowballed.

Anyways, it is the 9th century: Since the retreat of Rome, Britain has been a warground as kings of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Picts, Scots, Irish and the unfortunate Romano-British remnant battle to become the Bretwalda-the undisputed king of the British Isles. But from the east, a new threat rises as Scandinavian Vikings begin to tire of simply raiding the coasts of Britain and start thinking of settling and building empires in these comparability pleasant isles.

Each player starts with a capital-five in Britain, one in Ireland and two in Scandinavia(each being the heartland of a major power)-from which they expand their kingdoms until they come into contact with each other (a process which I have slowed down slightly by putting larger numbers of neutrals on the borders). From then it is expand and conquer.

Stats
56 territories
-8 Starting positions
-48 Neutral territories
-11 Decay territories
10 bonus giving continents (not including Kernow or Fleets)
Small Map Size: 630x600
Large Map Size: N/A

Older Maps
[url=http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6720/vikinginvasion1.jpg]Viking Invasion I[/bigimg]

Nice first draft

Kind of reminds me of another map

Anyway, I like the gameplay style - starting bases are proving very popular.

The Danish starts are at a disadvantage with fewer terits to attack (esp. with the bonus building system a la New World) and more decay fleets to get through. I'm sure there will be a solution - something that doesn't need to be sorted urgently though.

DJ Teflon wrote:Nice first draft

Kind of reminds me of another map

Anyway, I like the gameplay style - starting bases are proving very popular.

The Danish starts are at a disadvantage with fewer terits to attack (esp. with the bonus building system a la New World) and more decay fleets to get through. I'm sure there will be a solution - something that doesn't need to be sorted urgently though.

Thanks I tried to make the gameplay style as unique as possible-I think only feudal war has the same bonus system and starting positions at the moment but the fleets should add another aspect to the gameplay as well as all the continents being smaller.

I know it's similar to Danelaw but I think that the two maps can coexist rather well as there is significantly different gameplay, even if the theme is somewhat similar. Also may remind you of this map which could be said to be the earlier form of Viking Invasion.

Actually I was wondering if there's an XML feature that says "If you hold territory X decay does not happen to you" That would nicely simulate the superior Viking longboats. I'll look in to it.

I like this, especialy the feudal war like setup. Why not have the danish and norse settlements attack the ships since they would most likely sail out of the settlements, not the territory next it it.

el-presidente wrote:I like this, especialy the feudal war like setup. Why not have the danish and norse settlements attack the ships since they would most likely sail out of the settlements, not the territory next it it.

I might do that, it may also help with the disadvantage thing as it'll mean the Viking factions will have one territory less to deal with before landing in Britain.

It looks nice and simple enough. Clear instructions + clean graphics.
But Im concerned that starting in Danmark or Norge might not be balance since they can max give you +1 bonus and then you have to fight fleet without gaining any bonuses. To offset this maybe the those kings could gain bonuses for every other ship owned as well. A dont decay if you own X would be good here.

Sorry - I'm pretty sure that 'no decay is X held' doesn't exist.

How about the Danish and Norge having several (non-decay) ships for their fleets up there? Those fleets could be part of the local build-your-own bonus.

Norge's worse off than Denmark, I should not -- Denmark has East Engle to go for for a close bonus, but Norge has to hope that Scone or Bamburgh aren't too successful.

DJ Teflon wrote:Sorry - I'm pretty sure that 'no decay is X held' doesn't exist.

Decay's just a negative bonus, isn't it? Can't you just override it with a zero bonus for holding the extra territory?

Im aware of that the dont decay if X is owned function is in place. But as Evil is one to, there should be a work around.
Maybe not from the actual decay, but atleast offset it by giving deploy bonus.

Evil DIMwit wrote:Decay's just a negative bonus, isn't it? Can't you just override it with a zero bonus for holding the extra territory?

Wait, never mind. That would mean an auto-deploy bonus for holding multiple territories, and that, to my knowledge, though not a bad idea, doesn't exist. The best you could do is offset it with regular deploy, and while that's a handy thing for the player, you'd have to somehow justify it to the theme.

How about "Hold Norge or Danmark and gain +1 for every 2 fleets owned"

And in my opinion, Norge is better off than danmark as east anglia will have competition from mercia while the orcades and innse gall is hard for alba to reach.

I dont suppose you can autodeploy on Y if you own X.

Otherwise the solution suggested is only way to go.
But maybe 2 troops for 3 regions? To balance the decay + giving the vikings some more offensive power.

Rakio wrote:I dont suppose you can autodeploy on Y if you own X.

Otherwise the solution suggested is only way to go.
But maybe 2 troops for 3 regions? To balance the decay + giving the vikings some more offensive power.

Possibly may be a little steep as all the other nations have larger numbers to get through before they reach the sea-the Vikings are going to have the run of the seas for the first few turns and they could take over quite a lot of the ships in that time.

And the autodeply solution would be brilliant if we can get it to work.

There is most certainly a possibilty since it already exist in City Mogul.
There you get autodeply instead of just deploy if you own a certain set of colour. If you own the colour's home, the shop will auto-deploy. Otherwise it will give Deployment bonus.
So there is a way.

Edit:

Also if you think 2 for 3 is too much, you could make it scaleable. Start with 1 for 2 until 4 and then add some extra bonus. 5 Ships would give 3 troops.
But this is getting complicated and would require extra legend text, which seems unnecessary.

Rakio wrote:There is most certainly a possibilty since it already exist in City Mogul.
There you get autodeply instead of just deploy if you own a certain set of colour. If you own the colour's home, the shop will auto-deploy. Otherwise it will give Deployment bonus.
So there is a way.

Edit:

Also if you think 2 for 3 is too much, you could make it scaleable. Start with 1 for 2 until 4 and then add some extra bonus. 5 Ships would give 3 troops.
But this is getting complicated and would require extra legend text, which seems unnecessary.

Well that would work very nicely. If the decay is taken out of the picture for the Vikings, perhaps that will mean the bonus for the ships is irrelevent or can at least be reduced to 1 per three ships held- otherwise the vikings could be overpowered as all other factions may be able to break this bonus but they won't be able to hold it.

Why dont you add the Swedes as well?
Didnt they visit England too?

Also do you mean that it wont be possible to attack the viking home countires? Like in history.
That seems very unbalanced, if you cannot take out an player.

Rakio wrote:Why dont you add the Swedes as well?
Didnt they visit England too?

Also do you mean that it wont be possible to attack the viking home countires? Like in history.
That seems very unbalanced, if you cannot take out an player.

The Swedes played very little part in the invasion of Britain, I don't think they were really a united kingdom at the time and what is now the Swedish south coast was then a part of Denmark-the majority of the coast of Swedish peoples faced east into the Baltic. Besides, I already have 8 starting positions.

It should be possible to attack Viking home countries but the British kingdoms will experience the decay on their fleets while the Vikings won't (but only if they leave troops in the sea after ending their turn, it should be perfectly possible to cross to Scandinavia in a single turn)

However, what has just started to worry me is that, with no decay, the Vikings could plant a large army on Norge or Danmark fleet and defend their capital indefinatly while attackers will be unable to put rival armies on Moray or Engle without experiencing decay.

UPDATE: My internet at home has broken and I've just started my first year of 6th form. These factors combined mean an update may take a while.

Sorry folks!

Tricky.

I tried to come up with some more ideas to add to the mix at this stage - but nothing that would work

All I can think of is more ship routes out of Norway & Denmark.

Balsiefen wrote:UPDATE: My internet at home has broken and I've just started my first year of 6th form. These factors combined mean an update may take a while.

Sorry folks!

[Moved]

If you want to continue with the map, then one of the Foundry Moderators will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made.

Its resurrection time once more, seeing as Denmark is going quite well and I always really wanted to see how this would turn out, I'm going to continue the project. Gameplay is still the greatest concern at the moment although I've made a few changes which I hope should be handy.

Medieval Denmark II


Changes
-Holding Norge and/or Danmark now cancels the decay on fleets
-Offa's Dyke added to prevent Wales and Mercia from killing each other on the first time and to reduce Mercian disadvantage from being surrounded on four sides.
-altered a few neutrals to help give Mercia an easier time of things (specifically Wreocan Saete 4->3; Gwent 2->3; Pec Saetan 3->4

OK, we'll be moving this one to the melting pot to gather some support and give it some initial evaluation. I'd suggest submitting a design brief and we'll go from there.

Right ho, I'll get on to that...

whatever that is...


Edit: and done.

nice map. I like this time period.
have some notices:
1, there will be no Kingdoms?
2, two regions in Ireland + realm in Scotland gives +1?
3, add maybe any background to see. I like symbols of Kingdoms as background in the land.
4, I like idea of fleets as was at the start. the fleets are Viking´s and others did not have good ships...

theBastard wrote:nice map. I like this time period.
have some notices:
1, there will be no Kingdoms?

It will be a starting position and expansion map similar to new world.

2, two regions in Ireland + realm in Scotland gives +1?

no, You get +1 for every two regions you hold which are in the same realm (effectively a continant) so holding Ui Niell and Ulidia gives +1, holding Scone and Dal Riada gives +1 but holding Ui Niell and Dal Riada gives no bonus as they are in different realms.

3, add maybe any background to see. I like symbols of Kingdoms as background in the land.

I may add a soft background to the sea at some point but I haven't so far as I'm afraid that combined with the flags it may make the map look too busy.

4, I like idea of fleets as was at the start. the fleets are Viking´s and others did not have good ships...

Sorry, this is a little hard to follow: you like the decay being cancelled by holding Norway and Denmark or don't? It seems to be somewhat essential in terms of gameplay at the moment anyway.

I'm told what this map needs most at the moment is support so if you like it please drop a comment

Balsiefen wrote:no, You get +1 for every two regions you hold which are in the same realm (effectively a continant) so holding Ui Niell and Ulidia gives +1, holding Scone and Dal Riada gives +1 but holding Ui Niell and Dal Riada gives no bonus as they are in different realms.

so each background flag represents realm. what about Kernow - it is one region - to which realm it belongs?

Balsiefen wrote: I may add a soft background to the sea at some point but I haven't so far as I'm afraid that combined with the flags it may make the map look too busy.

maybe any waves?

Balsiefen wrote: Sorry, this is a little hard to follow: you like the decay being cancelled by holding Norway and Denmark or don't? It seems to be somewhat essential in terms of gameplay at the moment anyway.

yes, I like decay for ships

Balsiefen wrote:I'm told what this map needs most at the moment is support so if you like it please drop a comment

how much you need?