[22-May-2006] Grievances and RSS

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Postby wicked on Thu May 25, 2006 3:50 pm

lackattack wrote:No matter how frivolous the grievance, you DON'T have a right to file back. That's ABUSE.


Sure you do, if you've played them within the last 30 days. Or at least that's how the system is set up and currently being used, although that might not have been the original intent.
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Postby Patroclus on Thu May 25, 2006 3:52 pm

lackattack wrote:Idea :idea: : To avoid counter-grievances how about a 2 week cool-off period before filing against someone who filed on you?


Lack: Good idea, but in my opinion 2 weeks is a bit long. Most of the "Counter Grievers" may be idiots and forget within a week. Those with a valid counter maybe should be able to respond in a week, or at your descretion, as always, 6 days, 6 days and 7 minutes, 7 days and 6 minutes, 9 days....., Well, you must get the idea. :mrgreen:
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Postby lackattack on Thu May 25, 2006 4:01 pm

wicked wrote:
lackattack wrote:No matter how frivolous the grievance, you DON'T have a right to file back. That's ABUSE.


Sure you do, if you've played them within the last 30 days. Or at least that's how the system is set up and currently being used, although that might not have been the original intent.

I'm talking about grievances made purely for revenge. I don't want that allowed. It may be technically possible but should be against policy. This seems obvious to me, but it's also obvious that we need guidelines as to what is and is not appropriate to grieve about.
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Grievance does not = ignore

Postby Scarus on Thu May 25, 2006 4:01 pm

I agree with earlier posters that the new grievance system just doesn't suitably replace the old ignore list. The public aspect of it just makes it unworkable. The word grievance just has such a negative connotation.

I can understand that if someone doesn't have the option of putting another player's name on an ignore list that they might feel compelled to file a grievance just so they wouldn't have to play a particular person again, but this public option shouldn't be forced just because we can't do it privately anymore.

I don't know. What's the downside to having both a grievance system, and an ignore list, and reserving the grievance system for really egregious problems?

I would be very upset if I started accumulating grievances. I'm even pissed off that one of my friends has a single unwarranted grievance. (Yes I'm posting in the flamewar forum next....).

Can't wait for the poll. Don't see how anyone wouldn't want to have both.
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Postby JCole200 on Thu May 25, 2006 4:23 pm

lackattack wrote:I'm talking about grievances made purely for revenge. I don't want that allowed. It may be technically possible but should be against policy. This seems obvious to me, but it's also obvious that we need guidelines as to what is and is not appropriate to grieve about.


How determing the difference is next to impossible unless someone full on says "this is because you filed on me." There is no rules to giving them, so there is no 'wrong' filing.

All I know, is that someone called me ahole, then filed a grievance against me. Then someone used abusive language in filing another grievance against me. Neither of these things have been reviewed by anyone, and I have no avenue to get them removed. I have only two things I can do right now, tell "my side of the story" that no one will read. And file a grievance against them, warning other players that they are ridiculous. If this second avenue is gone, then its a beat you to the punch issue.

I would go on to say, that filing a grievance against someone that is unwarranted SHOULD be grounds to file a grievance back. I haven't filed at all versus my two, because there is no reason for it, but I think it would be pretty legitment to file a grievance and write "Filed un-warranted grievance against me." That IS my grievance with them. If they would have called me an ahole and let it ago, then no one is the wiser and life moves on. But with the new system its now aired in public.

I wouldn't play versus someone who had a grievance that said "Filed un-warranted grievance against me." That's more valuable to me then "this guy sucks balls" or whatever that guy wrote about me, despite the RULE that states abusive language isn't allowed.
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu May 25, 2006 9:35 pm

Tsc, tsc... this grievance thing is much more trouble than help... As I predicted, some guys are using it to abuse. Where is my ignore list?
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Postby anomie on Sat May 27, 2006 11:25 am

I think a followup to a grievance could be good instead of the response. I have 4 grievances from multis or poor sports that are getting revenge. It's hard to make one response to fit all these grievances and I expect it's only going to get more difficult.

I'd also like it if I can include some html in my response so that people can be directly linked to the games in question.

I think a positive feedback system could help. There are plenty of grievances I've read that I can tell are for revenge for other players. Maybe some sort of voting system on grievances? for those that care, they can vote on the validity of the grievances against another player? The majority of players on cc seem to be honorable and mature, their votes should outweigh these cheaters? It does admittedly sound complicated to me, however.

The ignore list worked so far as if you read these forums, you'd know who to ignore. But I know that users such as omega_squad and fatwhitelump are definite cheaters, yet they're still allowed to play. I like the grievance system for the fact that users who don't browse the forums can quickly see what kind of people are playing before they join the game.

I don't like the cooling off period because I accused someone of being a multi in game chat without a grievance, and they filed a grievance before the game even ended against me instead of proving me wrong (which they still haven't done). They could join or start plenty more games before I had a chance to file my own grievance.
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Postby Mateo on Tue May 30, 2006 7:23 pm

While in theory a good idea, the grievance system is too easily abused. I have seen multiple occassions where one player will file a grievance, and the person who received the grievance will respond by filing another one against the first player. I myself have been a victim of an unfounded grievance filed against me in response. It is too hard to sort out what grievances are true and which ones are malicious, filed as revenge for another grievance or a lost game. I don't know if there is a better way, but if u could think of one, it would be a great addition to an already great website. Thanks :)
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Lots of grievances?

Postby lobos on Wed May 31, 2006 11:14 am

so...those who haven't played against max_is_gr8 are unable to add him as a "grievance"

This is the problem I have with the grievance system. On the one hand, I understand the idea of having to play a person before filing a grievance against them. But on the other hand... If one sees that a person has 10 grievances against them, reads them all, feels that there is an awful lot of evidence that that person is a jerk and ought not to be played with, they cannot avoid that player without first filing their own grievance against that person. But as I understand it, you can't file a grievance against a person until you have played them yourself, and even if you could, it's not a system where you're supposed to write a "he has a lot of other grievances" grievance. So a person who is generally irritating and abusive without actually breaking any rules can just move on to the next "sucker"... :)

I realize that the ignore system wouldn't have helped with this, either -- then I didn't KNOW a person was an asshole before playing them! But it still seems odd.

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Grievance without ignoring?

Postby Darklord001 on Wed May 31, 2006 4:09 pm

I'm playing a game in which two well respected players have decided to cause difficulty and delay their play to eventually deadbeat.

Now, I would like to file a grievance against them, because I think this is poor sportsmanship, but I don't want to "hold a grudge" and be unable to play against them in the future.

Can I file a grievance, but choose to play against them again?

if not, why not? (if the answer is "too hard to program" that is a flaw in the grievance system)
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Postby SandTiger on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:26 pm

Nevermind.
Last edited by SandTiger on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Jota on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:39 pm

I'm guessing you haven't looked at the Grievances 2.0 thread.
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Postby SandTiger on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:59 pm

Nope. It dosen't show up when I look through the forums. I can only seem to get to it through the link in your post. How wierd is that?
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Postby TitusFinn on Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:25 am

:shock: Just posting for the first time and wanted to see my avatar. Next time I text, I will have a point. :shock:
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IGNORE LIST HUBBUB...

Postby Zryk on Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:06 am

To all those who have a problem with no ignore list. A simple solution to your problem is to start a private game and invite ONLY those players you know and/or like playing against.

If you can't do this because your not a premium member then there lies the true problem. Get a Premium membership and quit complaining.
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